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I'm glad this thread is still open. This is a major world event and needs to be talked about. Several other forums I visit shut down this topic pretty quick after it came up. Although I would prefer we stick to the topic at hand and quit wandering all over the place. Honestly, I'd like to see the old Politics Forum come back. It gave folks like me a place to discuss these things without having to resort to the craziness of ultra-liberal social media. As for that other guy, I saw what he was a long time ago. I, too, am surprised it took so long.

Just a note: I am working on a new Current Events and Politics forum. I may not get it finished for a few more hours as I'm chipping away at it between meetings and other tasks. It will be hidden behind the Benefactor pay wall. There will be an additional set of rules for participating. Ignorance of those rules will not be a valid excuse for not following them. Stay tuned.

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Just a note: I am closing this thread for now. It will re-open soon. I am working on a new Current Events and Politics forum. I may not get it finished for a few more hours as I'm chipping away at it between meetings and other tasks. It will be hidden behind the Benefactor pay wall. There will be an additional set of rules for participating. Ignorance of those rules will not be a valid excuse for not following them. Stay tuned.

My doctor told me to stop eating bacon, so it's going to be a big change for me. I've been with that doctor for over twenty years.

The problem is most of us do care about that and see some correlation to those events and have brought it up as part of the discussion. I think you are on the outside of majority opinion on this and come across as trying to stifle that discussion. I at least appreciate MacGyvers response even if I don't fully agree with it. All of these "ism's" are so subjective and honestly have lost all real meaning to me as people throw them out thinking it makes them look smart.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that the Palestinians are considered trash by pretty much all other Arab/Muslim countries. Egypt shares a section of border with Gaza and they sealed it up tight years ago to keep the Palestinians out of their country. I'm all in favor of opening an escape corridor so that any Palestinian who wants to can get out. The problem is that no other country in the region wants them. Even Iran, who helped finance and plan this attack doesn't want them. The Palestinians have no place to go. Nobody wants them. Not even those who are supposed to be their own people. Secondly, "Truth is the first casualty of war." We don't have all the facts and we never will. Propaganda and disinformation are just as much weapons of war as a rifle. We're forming opinions based on what we're allowed to know. Bear that in mind. I do believe that Israel has a right to defend itself. I probably won't like what's gonna happen, but I won't fault Israel for whatever they do. Things are gonna get real ugly, real quick.

I have friends in the Land of Israel, they keep me informed on what is happening in their home area. The attitudes of the every day Israeli, their habits and their expectations have been radically shifted/shattered. Most favor a war action to terminate the nightmare of promises, deals then bloodshed. "The innocent will be mourned " was a phrase I heard several times and it scared me how vehement the sentiment was. Never again, never again. We are half a world away, debating and arm chair quarterbacking decisions made by people under fire and being slaughtered in their homes. The Hebrew position was land for peace. The Muslim position was extermination of Jews at all cost, at every turn. As a people, population or government you cannot bargain with a foe that wants your total destruction. I support the Jewish people and want their suffering to end, even if it involves complete destruction of the operators/financiers/governments that are responsible for this. Israel belongs to God alone. He gave it to the Hebrews and all that would follow Him. Yes I am a follower of the Messiah and this violence is just the beginning of the end. I am not waxing religious, but I know how it ends....for all involved. I was told caption to the image reads "The Difference"

For those who aren't familiar with TGO History...

Black Lives Matter has come out in support of Hamas. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/10/10/black-lives-matter-organization-shows-support-for-hamas-amid-terror-attack-on-israel/ Well Hell, I guess there is no keeping our own problems out of this.

So what I am hearing is that thread drift is ultimately why he got banned? You may not want to hear it, but it is a clear and present danger to have an open border, and attacks like what happened in Israel, who has a much more guarded border should make us all want to discuss our own border, not shy away from it. If 1500 terrorists can do that, over a long holiday, imagine what thousands of them could do here. Thousands upon thousands of military aged men have been dispersed all across the US, and many from countries not bordering ours. If this attack is not a wake up call to our own government, whose primary responsibility is our countries security, then I can only surmise that they want it to happen.

I loved the politics forum. I can say that because I am not a moderator.

For me there is a correlation of of potential impact. I don't think anyone was specifically saying they are equal at this point in time. Things like this are always going to come back to making correlations to things at 'home" where it is most important to almost all of us. Trying to limit things to only a narrow focus is never going to happen IMO in topics with such broad impact in the world.

It’s good for frying with its high smoke point and neutral flavor. But you’re right about it not seasoning cast-iron well. That’s why I just use lard like God and grandma intended.

I'll make a couple of additional comments for context. Rarely is a member here banned for a single comment. It has happened in our history - but that's generally when someone doesn't have a history on TGO and it's clear that they're just here to be inflammatory. Most bans have quite a deal of discussion behind the scenes amongst the moderating staff. We currently have a staff that does a lot of work to keep from banning people. If you've been on TGO for a long time - you'll note that you see far fewer actual bans today than in the past. That's frankly because of mods like @Chucktshoes who are quite willing to disagree with folks - and who can keep their own opinion separate from the job they do here. TGO is a better place because of it. I made the decision to ban crc4 yesterday after discussion with the moderating team. It wasn't a single point issue. He's been here for less than a year - and has had quite a few posts taken down. His history is still here - you can probably go back and find a lot of it if you're so inclined. If you're looking for where the moderating line is - we've got a code of conduct. Repeatedly posting things that are racist will put you over that line. There are members in this thread who've posted things in the past that are over that line and have received warnings because of their history in this community. We can't police what you believe. But we can expect better in your rhetoric here - and those members have course corrected. crc4 received those warnings, and did not course correct. That's why he was ultimately booted.

Golden State Arms did in fact sporterize a lot of these guns and convert them to .308s with Pachmayr white line recoil pads like the one shown in your photo. The new chambering should be marked on both the barrel and on the magazine. I don't have one of these -- I'm a K31 guy myself -- but I understand they are nice rifles. GLWS. Cheers, Whisper

I think the issue is that we were attempting to keep the thread narrowly tailored to prevent it from blowing up into a wildly out of control thread. I am not sure we really succeeded, but we try. The tension between the general tamping down on politics with the occasional big topic having space made for it leads to an imperfect and uneven balancing act. I would like to speak for myself alone for a moment. I really appreciate the input from all of y’all regarding your thoughts and criticisms on how the moderation is handled with regards to politics. It’s taken seriously and informs the decisions made here.

The similarity is that there is a question if hamas or similar terrorists are coming in through our southern border.

Respectfully, there are many issues with our southern border. But this thread is about Israel and the sudden war thrust upon them. Our border is a topic for another discussion. Maybe if the Politics forum comes back, we can discuss it there.

It says to me that the more popular opinion doesn't matter if those in power want to silence you.

CZ shadow 2 Cajun Gunworks Pro kit trigger 11# recoil spring 6 MOA Deltapoint Pro Optic cut and slide cerakote performed by Primary Machine 6 magazines, 3 with TTI basepads (one with grahams spring and follower), 2 factory 17 round, and 1 ten round Lok Bogey Grips Amazing shooter, has rouhgly 1k rounds through it 500 of which after all modifications trades considered: Staccato C2 of P. May consider a Springfield or Kimber 1911 plus cash Price: $2100 or best offer Trade Value $2300

Local Sales in Chattanooga/Cleveland area. Edited for price drop. Trades welcome. Ruger PC Charger 9mm SOLD. Factory box 10rnd and 30rnd magazine. Smith and Wesson 43C .22 SOLD w/ factory box Sig Sauer P938 9mm $625 $500 OBO 2 mags and factory case Lee Enfield .303 cal rifle $700 - $600 prod date 1918 SOLD Ruger P90 .45 cal $350 $275 OBO Factory case 6 Magazines. Ruger P89 9mm $325 $275 OBO Factory Case 6 magazines Stand Manufacturing DP12 14 rd $950 $800 OBO SOLD

You win the internet, sir!!!!!!!

We are being dragged into a holy war whether we like it or not- Look at the way some of these idiots in our own country act- Almost like they hate our very own-

But here is the rub, we are to discuss terrorists without discussing what can happen here? It's like trying to discuss a kaboom at a local range without being able to discuss it happening elsewhere.

In that case Gaza needs to be a parking lot.

Well, as has been said, I'll agree to disagree. We are being invaded, and some of these invaders have that same mentality you speak of. Sure, many at first just wanted better living conditions (who doesn't), and wanted to work, but now we have people coming from all parts of the world through our southern border, with no vetting whatsoever, and those with a 9/11 mentality could very well be some of them.

@MacGyver, do you want to make any further statement about the recent banning? I thought it was pretty clear where the gentleman went over the line with constant racist / xenophobic statements and you seemed to address that in your previous post before he was banned, but maybe I'm just assuming too much.

We are all entitled to our opinions, you included. No one should be banned for it unless they start getting personal against others IMO. All I am saying is in this scenario I didn't see that. I don't know if he would come back or not, but personally sometimes we can own our mistakes and make them right. I don't expect that is going to happen but felt it was important as a long time member to simply say I didn't agree with how it was handled. Not my site, not my call so it is what it is.

And it's this Barney, not the one I actually like:

We will have to agree to disagree. Funny sidetone. Look at who has the most likes recently (by a long shot). Maybe says more about this forum than you would like to believe.

I may be the odd man out, but I personally find the timing of the ban to be as much about a strong opinion opposite of those moderating. I don't feel he was personally attacking anyone here. David even mentioned just letting things go and letting everyone have a thick skin (paraphrasing). I may not always agree with what he said, but the perception of the ban to me seems like retaliation. Either let people have at it or just stop it all.

Well, if the shoe fits, and while we are at it lets not forget the pallets of cash sent by Obama.

I agree with what McGyver said. While I pray for a total victory by Israel over Hamas and Hezbolla, I also pray for the innocent victims on both sides of the conflict. War has no winners, especially those caught in the middle who only want to live in peace. When Judgement Day takes place, it won't matter whether you're Israeli, Muslin Christian, black, white, etc; we will all stand before and answer to the same God who created all of us. My hope is that this isn't the start to WW3. IsraelStrong

I get a kick out of it when someone compares the 3rd world trash illegals to the Irish. Italians, etc who immigrated here legally. Sure there was prejudice, but they overcame by becoming Americans. They embraced being Americans not like some others who still hate the country that's given them so much opportunity. Comparing the demonstrators on Jan 6 to terrorists is silly. The only terrorist there was the scumbag who killed Ashley Babbit. Some might consider the ushers who opened the velvet ropes conspirators.

Honestly I believe Israel shouldn't go in. I think they should tell Iran they want their people back and they want all of the people involved within 24 hours. After 24 hours Iran starts losing assets. Things like the entire navy. Every military base. Every nuclear site. If one hostage is killed, pick a city and give them a 24 hour notice to vacate it. After the 24 hours, remove the city from the Erath. Iran is the man behind the curtain. Glad I'm not in charge. Create such fear in terrorist states that they police themselves. Then we and every other country gets out of everyone else's business.

I put a stainless steel birds head grip frame on one of my shorter single sixes.I love the look of a birdshead grip single action.

comes with original box x2 17 rnd mags plus 1 20 rnd mag and Primary Machine compensator ( link below) comes with the backstraps and the decocker sping and levers less than 1k rnds through. pm for more pictures or questions $500 obo https://primarymachine.com/cz-p-07-09-stealth-comp/

Its for trade up or down I'm not putting a buy price on it

Late reply but if you want an M1 Garand then CMP is your place. Can have it shipped to you. If you wanna go in person they have store in AL. Worth the drive. They won’t be gun show prices either

There are giant differences between our southern border and the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip. There's not much similarity other than - it's a border. Look, it's a low bar to look at what Hamas has done and condemn it. It's evil - and will likely not exist after the coming conflict. It also doesn't take a lot to look at the conditions just over 2 million people live in and say "I totally disagree with this - but I can see the path to how we got here." You can only be kept in what's essentially an open air prison for so long before some portion of the population is going to resort to violence. Multiple things can be true at once, I guess. But it's just not apples to apples with our southern border.

Mannnnnnn…. I loved it too. Then I didn’t. Weirdly enough I think that transition happened around the time I become a moderator.

You really ought to check with your PCP. It's probably worth picking up a fingertip oximeter - they're not that expensive: https://www.amazon.com/Zacurate-Fingertip-Oximeter-Saturation-Batteries/dp/B07PQ8WTC4 If it drops below 95% - that's a direct prompt to go get help.

You certainly won’t find a nicer Hi-Power with a bunch of mags for this kind of money! Re-listing this outstanding 1994 Hi-Power at not only a lower price, but now includes 7 mags! This pistol is in incredible condition. Bluing is outstandingly bright and shiny. Barrel rifling is beautiful. Very tight overall fit. One very faint hairline scratch on left side of frame near front of trigger guard, barely visible to the naked eye, but it is there. I have fired exactly 30 rounds through it. Unsure of previous count, but obviously extremely low as evidenced by the lack of wear.. Basically, an incredibly clean example of a 30 year old Hi Power. 1994 Browning Hi Power .40 S&W Steel Frame Ring Hammer Single Side Safety Novak Night Sights Still Glow Fairly Well (Dated 2005) 2 Stainless Mecgar 10 Round Mags 5 Blued Mecgar 10 Round Mags VZ G10 Grips No Box or Papers There is also a beautiful set of High Figure Cocobolo checkered grips available to buyer at additional cost. Pistol with 7 mags…… SOLD Pistol with all of the above AND the High Figure Cocobolo grips…… SOLD Please feel free to PM with any questions. I am NOT interested in any trades at this time.

I have not had (or taken) the time to comment on this thread, but I have read every post, and I’ve learned a pretty good bit. These events, as horrific as they are (and are going to get worse), have made one thing glaringly clear, and that is how divided we really are.

They are obviously not cat people

I've mentioned before how a touch of arthritis in my right hand makes it difficult for me to shoot the traditional Colt/Ruger style SA revolvers. Simply put, the shape of the plow handle grip causes the back of the trigger guard to beat the holy hell outta my middle finger knuckle. It only takes about one cylinder full to have me bleeding. So, in order to get my Cowboy fix, I've turned to other revolvers common in the old west. According to TV and movies, you'd think that every cowboy in the old west carried a Colt SAA. Not exactly true. The Colts were indeed quite popular, they weren't the only revolvers used by a long shot. For my needs, I've settled on the Remington Model 1875 and the Smith & Wesson Schofield both in .45 Colt caliber. You will note that the grip frame on both guns sits just a little bit further back on the frame that the traditional Colt style. This gives my poor knuckle just enough space to avoid damage. I might also mention that both of these guns originally came with 7-7.5" barrels. I have opted for the more modern 5-5.5" lengths as they just handle better for me. The Remington Model 1875 was their answer to the Colt SAA. Its really just their extremely successful Model 1858 Percussion Cap revolver fitted with a bored through cylinder. Its just a tad bit bigger, beefier and heaver than the Colt, but proved to be very popular in the old west. Many preferred its slightly more "heft". The Remington was known to be favored by Buffalo Bill Cody and outlaw Frank James among others. The big bore S&W break tops were also quite common in the old west. The Number 3 American in .44 S&W was very popular. Colonel George Schofield modified the latch mechanism to make it easier for mounted troops to unload and reload the revolver with one hand. The U.S. Army purchased around 8000 Schofield revolvers for their troops. S&W chambered the Army guns in .45 S&W Schofield caliber as the cylinder was just a bit too short for the standard .45 Colt cartridge. The two cartridges are identical except for length with the colt being just a tad bit longer. Little known fact: to simplify the supply chain, most ammo issued to troops was .45 S&W Schofield as it worked in either the Colt or S&W guns. Most modern reproductions, such as mine, have a slightly longer cylinder and are chambered in the more common .45 Colt caliber. Well, there you have it. Other revolvers popular in the old west. There are others as well such as some of the early DA revolvers. Show 'em if ya got 'em!

Many thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I’m having pretty good luck learning lacing techniques, but I’m not yet where I want to be with the carving. Making a smooth arc with a swivel knife is proving to be quite a challenge. If you have a workbench and some spare time, it is a fun hobby to try and learn. You can learn a lot surfing the web, and get everything you need at Tandy Leather.