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I don't even begin to use training as an argument in this case. But in general that is the first area cut during budget stress periods. Most agencies have a year probationary period for all new hires. It is during this time that a rookies' moral make up and maturity level should be assessed as to their fit for duty status. If warning signs arise they should be let go, otherwise it would be considered negligent retention on the part of the administration. It pains me to write these responses because I am about as pro-police as you can get, but what I see here is an insult to all the good officers and administrations out there.

You might want to stop equivocating people with animals and go back and watch the video…several times. At what point did he even have a chance to comply like a trained dog?

I took my bike to Windrock today. First time there. What a blast! This little bike was really impressive. I was able to ride 22 miles and had 37% battery left when I finished. On the way down the mountain I saw the regen function work for the first time. While coasting it actually recharged the battery a little bit. My rookie move was underestimating how muddy I would get. I should not have worn my good coat. I tried to avoid the mud puddles for a while but eventually stopped being a sissy and just tore through them. I just wish I had someone to ride with.

We used to have a training officer on here. He told me something one time that’s stuck with me for a lot of years. He said that on any given force there is about 10% of the population that will always do the right thing regardless of personal cost. These officers are rare - and we want more of them. On any given force there is a smaller percentage - about 5% that will do the wrong thing and abuse their power any time they can get away with it. They’re a poison and we clearly want fewer of them. Neither of those groups are actually the problem though. It’s the other 85%. What’s their behavior like? They’re going to mimic whoever they happen to be with. If they happen to be with one of the “bad apples” they’re more likely than not going to go along and maybe join in. That’s where the phrase “bad apples” gets its meaning. Put a bad apple in a barrel full of good apples and the gas it gives off will quickly spoil the rest. Same for officers. We can’t just focus on the bad ones and pretend like that’s good enough. Because if they’ve been there long enough - they’ve literally spoiled the whole department. incidentally we have data on this. In any given organization of 100 people it takes two people to ruin the whole culture. That toxicity is never fun - but it’s one thing when it’s Brenda in accounting. Your job sucks and maybe you should polish up your resume. But when it’s a police department it’s literally a life or death problem.

After watching the video, and lacking any additional evidence that might not be disclosed yet, my opinion is that the police officers who beat this man to death should face the death penalty and that their date with the executioner should not be delayed any more than is necessary. Officers who didn't contribute to his injuries but neglected to stop the others who were beating him should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I didn't agree with the way that the public reacted to most of the things that occurred over the past 2-3 years, but on this one I think that the public is justified in burning the Memphis Police Department to the ground. Figuratively and literally.

And those rumors and conjecture don’t contribute to the discussion, at this point. I think a lot of people are trying to spread these “whys” to justify why people they generally seem to respect or “back” or support would do something like this. And in my mind it distracts us from the fact that it did happen. The why doesn’t matter. They were driving MPD vehicles, getting paid by MPD and wearing MPD uniforms. They represent not just Memphis but police officers nationwide. We are a developed, supposedly free, nation. Our law enforcement officials should never act in this manner, reasons be damned. If Tyre was sleeping with one of their girls, does it change anything? They used their position of authority to take a man’s life. That’s the point of this. The why doesn’t change that for me.

I also noticed this. In video #4 after the cops had retrieved Nichol’s wallet at the 15:01 mark someone gives the lieutenant Nichol’s ID and states “he ain’t got no charges.” I know it’s procedure to run a check, but it seems they were hoping to find something in his past they could use against him. Also, it’s being reported this morning that the cops went to Nichol’s home and told his mother that he had been involved in a DUI, was injured, hospitalized and would be booked after release, therefore she wouldn’t be able to see him. The photo of Nichol’s lying in the hospital bed was reportedly provided to his family. Sheriff Bonner claims he didn’t see the video until last night, and Chief Davis never told him two of his deputies were on scene. This whole thing stinks! Davis may be unemployed in the very near future. As Crump said, this case is a blueprint for how these situations should be handled in the future. Get the information out fast if there is proof of wrongdoing. If a mayor doesn’t want riots and their cities destroyed, don’t hide the videos and the the names of the perpetrators for seven months leaving people to question your motives. The initial transparency did a lot to save Memphis.

Good. And, notice how quickly they’re trying to separate themselves from all of this. I’m glad they’re disbanding it - but that doesn’t excuse it. And, there needs to be a thorough inquiry into the training, tactics, and decision making process before this can be resolved. If you don’t learn from it - you’re going to repeat it.

Policing is hard and these days thankless. Recruiting and retaining good people must be almost impossible thanks to the defund the police crowd, BLM and the rest. Cops know that no one has your back if an altercation unintentionally goes bad. The street criminals are emboldened knowing this. You could not pay me enough to stick my neck out being a cop these days in this political climate. Saying all that, what type of folks are now in uniform in some of these troubled cities? The fact that FIVE uniformed officers happened upon this unlucky guy leads me to believe there are many more bad apples in this department. Five bad cops on the same stop just a coincedence? I'm a guy who errs on the side of cops or at least strives to see their point of view until evidence proves otherwise but...... These animals were abusive and intimidating from the start, no attempt to diffuse or calm. Later they had many multiple chances to easily overpower and cuff this guy, (Even if he was struggling a bit) with all 5 of them but instead chose to kick and beat him instead. As far as reaching for the cops gun? At that point I sure would have tried! I'm guessing the cop is lying about the gun anyway. Final point. The Chief should resign and the Dept. investigated on hiring practices and every current officer given a second look.

I’ve been spending time on social media telling both left and right wingers to sit the eff down regarding the handling of this. The lack of mass rioting we’ve seen is partially due to the handling of the administration in calling things out for what they are and being honest with the public. I would also attribute a significant amount of the reason for peace to the people of this city who are legitimately seeking for a better home. For all the crap going on, there are many more good folks than bad there no matter what the rest of the state believes.

John Harris at the TFA posted this blog entry today. It's an interesting read. Memphis police conduct and the law of self-defense - Tennessee Firearms Association Frankly, I have a feeling that a citizen who rightfully used deadly force to defend himself or herself from police officers would probably not live long enough to make it to the hospital. Multiple, armed, assailants wearing body armor and beating your ass does not present a scenario where the odds are in your favor. I find it more than a little ironic that a citizen wearing body armor during the commission of a crime receives additional charges because of the armor. I wonder, does that apply to the police as well?

I have waited for more facts to make any comment on this. The video is fact enough. As a retired LEO, that was simply a gang beat down, not an arrest. There is nothing that Tyre could have done in the past or present that could justify this beating. Mind you, there were a few times in my career that the urge arose to do so, such as arresting violent pedophiles, I did not and neither did my shift mates. We made the arrest using only the force required to subdue. I imagine this will be a short trial, just show the video. I would like to speak to the not as obvious that no one has mentioned. I am curious as to how many years each of these thugs had on the force. Over the past 20 years I have watched as agencies large and small have lowered their hiring standards to fill positions for lack of qualified applicants, or applicants desired by ever increasingly liberal administrations. Add this to the fact that when budgets in municipal and county agencies get tight the first area to be cut is training. Now add on top of that the media and political far left attack in general on anybody that wears a badge. As a professional old school LEO, this trend has been sad to watch. Unfortunately I believe this is only going to get worse. Just sad.

Hopefully this doesn’t come across as combative because it isn’t meant to be at all. My overall support / defense / etc. for good cops hasn’t changed. That said, I don’t see much to defend here. As another member posted, these guys just looked like dudes who happened to be wearing a police uniform. I too was proud to see how Memphis handled last night overall. Hopefully no outsiders come in and stir up the masses.

I've seen people get an azz whipping like this and live, but looks can be deceiving. All it takes is one hit in the wrong spot and you're done. If they were gang bangers, people wouldn't bat an eye. It's the fact that it's police that makes it disturbing. There are way worse videos in the world, but killing the person/people is the whole point. This is America and we are above all of that. That's what we tell ourselves anyway.

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I guess that was when one cop said to put his hands behind his back while another cop had him in a wrist lock. You know . . .that chance . . :smh: [/sarcasm]

Thanks much, the profession has changed a lot just in the last 10 years and not for the better. I miss the job but could not stand the politics that now permeate the profession. I left with many good stories to tell and many that don't need to be told due to the ugliness of humanity they portray, those I keep to myself.

There was one report that said one of the former officers said he never requested the Scorpion Unit. He was just assigned to it out of the blue. I kinda get the impression that admin was looking to fill this unit with a certain type. For the record, I am and always have been a firm supporter of Police. When I worked for Bartlett, I dealt with our cops on pretty much a daily basis. The vast majority of them are good people. We would get an occasional bad apple, but they never lasted very long. But then, I dealt with the person not the cop. OTOH: being right next door to Memphis, I have had to deal with MPD from time to time. Frankly, they don't impress me one bit. Most of them come off as dumb as a box of rocks. Its been well known around here for quite some time that Memphis has trouble recruiting new officers. Therefore they have lowered their standards quite a bit. It shows. Another big issue with MPD is that good candidates will get hired on because its fairly easy. They get trained, work a couple of years for experience and then take off for greener pastures. They just can't keep the good ones.

The only reason I'm curious about this now is because the entire thing looked more like a preplanned hit, than a legal traffic stop. We never saw any proof of wreckless driving. As soon as he pulls over, they immediately went to violence and yanked him out of the vehicle. I never even heard them identify themselves and state why he was stopped. Tyre was the only one trying to deescalate the situation until I think he realized he was in serious danger. I don't blame him for running away. If there is more to the story I'm confident MPD will get to the bottom of it and upgrade charges as needed. I feel like the kidnapping charges are proof that MPD agrees this was not a legal stop to begin with.

I have no desire to watch the video, but the freedom of others to make the video available for the public to watch serves an important purpose and is consistent with core principles of government by the people.

With respect to the purists above, and posting as a 1911 collector (Vintage 1911 Collector's Association Member #44), I disagree with the notion that your first 1911 needs to be a USGI base model. With an $1800 budget, you don't need to hobble yourself with the Great Granddaddy warhorse that has since been improved several generations hence. It is a testimony to the 1911's design that, over a century after its introduction (at the dawn of semiautomatic handguns, no less), it has been able to be refined and improved to be a viable contender with cutting-edge modern designs using engineering methods, CNC milling, metals, and synthetic materials that hadn't even been dreamed of let alone implemented when John Moses Browning blessed us with the 1911. As a modern handgun shooter, you may in fact be somewhat soured on the 1911 platform by the original's small beavertail, lack of trigger finger and grip scalloping, lack of checkering on the straps, lack of an accessory rail, poor irreplaceable sights, lesser slide serrations, and/or many of the other features that have since been greatly improved as semiauto experience and engineering have marched forward. There's absolutely no good reason to start there. Once you love the platform, expand backwards and pick up something original. I own Colts ranging from the pre-1911 1903 Pocket Hammerless, to US Property-marked 1911's and 1911A1's from both World Wars, to some of their most desirable offerings from the postwar era through the 1980's. As a bona-fide Colt collector, I urge you not to select a modern Colt. The company went tragically downhill since the mid-1980's and especially beginning in the late '90's, Colt's modern semiautmatic offerings have suffered from poor quality control, poor material quality, and poor fitment/assembly. They have recently scored a big turnaround with their modern revolver redesigns, but that has not translated to their semiautomatics. This may change with CZ's takeover of Colt. As a retail gunsmith, I have a unique perspective on firearms quality - I get to see what comes across my counter for repair. A higher incidence of Colt 1911-pattern guns since about 2000 have had cracked frames, cycling and feed issues from the factory, poor accuracy compared to similar-priced guns, and other issues including fundamental fitment deficiencies affecting reliability, accuracy or ease of use. While they don't descend to the level of "lemons," the defect rate is out of all proportion to their cost. Get yourself a railed Sig 1911, black FDE or stainless as you prefer (the stainless is exceptionally good). Excellent in the hand, great modern features without going too far astray of what a 1911 is, accurate, and fantastic factory quality including especially, fitment. You won't spend anywhere near your budget, leaving you room for ammo and accessories. You'll have enough of a baseline to help you determine whether you like the platform or not, and you will not have "wasted" a slot on the notion that well, that wasn't the best of what the 1911 has to offer. Imagine putting $600 into a Rock Island (great guns by the way, especially at the price), not liking the clunky old design, and then having strangers chime in, "well they make better ones, you should give it a fair chance and buy a good modern one, you can't compare the old 1911 to modern guns." If you don't like Sig, get a Springfield TRP or one of the varios Operators, Smith Performance Center, or Rock Island Tac Standard. But whatever you do, get it in .45 so you can understand what the gun can really do. The big holes are fun, and you owe yourself the understanding of what the "push" of a .45's recoil feels like in a big handgun compared to the "snap" of a 9mm.

Smith & Wesson Model 66-1 PPC (JARVIS) Price reduced: This is a custom built revolver using a Smith & Wesson model 66-1 frame and cylinder. This was built by the Jarvis custom company about 2003. Installed is a 6 inch Jarvis barrel. This gun will group 2 inches or less at 50 yards, it has an approximately 7 lb. double action trigger. Also it has an Aristocrat Tri Set Competition Sight Rib, The unique 3-position action cam offers precise range selection using both elevation and windage. This is a precision revolver tunned to shoot .38 special ammunition. This gun works flawlessly. I will include 100 rounds of Precession Delta 38 special wadcutters. This gun is just fun to shoot. Thanks for looking

MPD has been a mess for at least 30 years. Back in the 1990s I was a Boy Scout Leader. We had two very active Troop Dads, both of whom were MPD officers. Both had about 10 years on the job. Both were looking for a way out of Patrol Division. One was a Lieutenant who got himself a position supervising the Reserve Unit. The other got himself transferred to K-9s. They both gave the same reason. They said the the new officers Memphis was hiring at that time were just plain stupid. They were a danger to themselves and others. These Dads just didn't want to be out on the streets with them. Remember, this was 30 years ago. The situation has not improved since.

No you don’t. Nice gun Btw.

The people I know that usually defend LEO at costs are silent on this one. I pray that's because there's nothing defensible about this case instead of because the cops weren't white this time. The conversation in the aftermath did sound more like a bunch of street thugs than cops to me though. I saw zero professional law enforcement training displayed in this case, just a group of bullies trying to hurt a guy half their size.

It would be Interesting to know if gangs have begun to infiltrate the police. Taking over institutions from within seems to be the new way. All I know is there's a lot of people who need Jesus in their heart.

The longest tenured of the five had just over five years. A couple only three years. and I don’t buy the training argument. You don’t train cops to be good human beings. You train them in tactics, policy and law. None of those are displayed in this series of videos. These videos demonstrate 8 individuals failing on a basic human decency level. The argument used to be, and people gave a pass for, that officers only encounter the worst of humanity and so they start to see everyone as less than human. That doesn’t make it okay. Not in the slightest. These guys may have been great people. But on January 7th, they committed some of the most heinous acts known to man. I pray for Tyre’s family and the families of those officers.

The main thing I’ve seen change is the fact there are now cameras everywhere. This is nothing new.

Memphis did not burn last night. Regardless of your issues with any signage, or where they protested, the bridge protest was peaceful. the rest of the city lost their minds. There was a lot of vandalism and burglary by opportunists. They weren't carrying signs or chanting. It was the same people who are always burgling and vandaling taking advantage of the climate to make their city worse. But overall, I’m proud of my city so far. The days to come could be very different though so I just pray for level heads to prevail. I should also say, I’ve never seen a police brutality thread on this forum where almost no one defends the police. I don’t know if it speaks to the general attitude of the forum changing or the specifics of this thread. But it is definitely new.

Everybody needs to watch it. It’s your tax dollars at work.

The part where a few held him up while the other repeatedly punched him looked rehearsed. I would not be surprised if they have done this before. If they act this awful while wearing body cams it really makes me wonder what else happens off camera. Not just here, but across the country.

Another housewife joining in. Since we’re discussing rumors, I’ll join in. For the past week there have been rumors that the deceased was romantically involved with one of the former officer’s lady friends. No proof of this, and none of the former cops are married. There is also rumor that these are the same cops who robbed an individual at a Poplar Ave hotel recently. No proof of that. Lastly there is a local news story where a gentleman has photos of the unit (same guys) after they accosted him a few days prior to the death of Nichols at a gas station on Ridgeway and Quince looking for a pound of dope. The individual was a passenger in a vehicle and had exited the vehicle to go across the street to pick up a pizza while the driver purchased fuel. The individual claims in the news story that he was released after stating he didn’t have drugs and wanted to contact his lawyer. The cops stated to the individual there was no reason to get lawyers involved, and said they were joking about the drugs, then released the individual. A complaint was filed with IAD twice and garnered zero response. As for the reckless driving. Chief Davis just did a live interview stating that the police department looked at multiple nearby traffic cams, pole cams, business cams and body cams and could find no evidence that Nichols was involved in reckless driving or driving on the wrong side of the road. Hence the chief saying the things she said about the behavior of her officers. The chief said the video would be released at 6pm on YouTube and memphistn.gov. The video will be about a hour long with footage from 3-4 cameras. Video will be from body cams, pole cam and dash cams. The video will show the officers initial contact with Nichols at a 10 on a scale of 1-10. There will be tasers and oc spray deployed and poor attempts to handcuff Nichols by several individuals. The video will show the second contact very clearly via pole cam that was brutality violent that lead to Nichols injuries. The video will show Nichols asking “what did I do” and saying something about his mother. The video will also show the cops attempting to sit Nichols up a couple of times, then slumping over and mumbling. Lastly, the video will show lapses in time of the cops failing to render or call for aid and first responders delaying aid and milling about upon their arrival. The chief said the only thing s redacted from the the video are license tags of nearby vehicles and some individuals. There are several fire and pd employees currently under investigation. So the former cops weren’t thrown under the bus. The city, county and police department were being transparent as they promised the citizens of Shelby County they would be when they put Davis in charge. Some people think the three weeks for charges was too slow and others believe the charges were abnormally fast. I’m the latter, but I believe it’s a good thing. At the end of the day, no traffic stop should end in this manner. As far as riots, I expect more of the agitators will be outsiders and the usual local unruly violators. Most Memphians are very vocal about wanting to peacefully protest, but not wanting to tear up the city. We will see.

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You’re shortchanging them. They’ve always been a mess their entire history regardless who you know that worked for them. Like you, every cop I know is a “good cop.” That being said, I’ve never known the MPD to be a good department.

Bugs in your teeth and mud up your back... does it get any better than that?

https://twitter.com/mem_policedept/status/1619446919683796992?s=46&t=pYPnD-UJWZP5wBL9ZQsRgQ

I read the police chief had been previously fired from the Atlanta police force. You’re right. The organization usually reflects it’s leadership.

This is always a good idea. Regardless of your position on anything, bias comes out. I recall this one time I was told a cop shot a man in the back while he was on his knees with his hands up.

Here are the findings of Dean Weingarten's study, Handgun or Pistol Against Bear Attacks (2021) 104 cases, 97% Effective Key Takeaways Pistol shots stopped 97% of the bear attacks. 12.5% of shooters were injured after firing on the bear. Weaker ammo needed more shots to stop the attack than stronger ammo. Hollow points needed more shots; multiple reports cited them glancing off of bear skulls. The 4 failures: .22lr vs. polar bear, .38 special vs. black bear, .357 Magnum vs. grizzly bear, .45 ACP vs. black bear. 5 incidents were initiated by dog(s). Dogs assisted in 2 incidents, buying time for the owner to fire. Several successful uses of firearms followed the failure of pepper spray. Warning shots were successful about half the time they were tried. Aiming for the heart or lungs was highly effective By the way, this is in direct conflict with the "use bear spray" results you'll get if you google "firearm or bear spray vs bear." Notice who posts and parrots those results: typically progressive, liberal, and conservationist sources. The most-often cited studies on these pages are BYU's 2012 study, which found firearms generally ineffective and bear spray 97% effective. However, dissecting their methodology reveals a grossly biased study, where incidents in which a person carrying a gun but not drawing it were counted as gun failures, but only incidents with ideal conditions in which the bear spray was deployed prior to close contact with the bear were counted. When the samples are evaluated using similar deployment criterion, the statistics are reversed. Bias in science, sucks.

I miss mine. It really makes me sad to remember that fateful day of the boating accident. However, that’s what I get for trying to hunt ducks with a braced pistol.

OK. I’m a motorcycle owner. ^^^OldIronFan is a rider.^^^ My hat’s off to you, sir, and thanks for sharing your trip with us. My rear end hurts just thinking about it!

Took advantage of an extra day off for Veterans day and did an IBA Veterans Day Gold ride last Friday. Goal of the ride is to visit at least 4 veterans related sites such as VA Hospitals, VFW posts, National or Veterans Cemeteries, or other Veterans memorials. Each site must be at least 150 miles apart and you must travel a total of at least 1,111 miles which is a nod to World War 1 and the origins of Veterans Day, the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month. You must do this all in 19hours and 18minutes or less, again a nod to the end of WW1 in 1918. I set out at a bit after 5 am Friday morning in the rain and stopped by my first location in Smyrna, VFW post 8422. I made my way around 840 headed West toward Memphis. The rain was heavy at times but began to clear once I passed Dickson and the Duck river. The cloud cover delayed the sunrise though so I was nearly to Jackson before I saw much sun. I reached Memphis and the Memphis National Cemetery where I got off the bike for a few minutes to walk around a bit. It was a really pretty morning so I made a slow lap around the grounds enjoying the sunglight coming through what remained of the leaves on the tree canopy before snapping a photo at the gate. From there I set off further West toward Little Rock and the Little Rock National Cemetery. Really pretty grounds here as well and another slow lap around through falling leaves was done. I got back on the road and made my way into Oklahoma where I filled up at the 570 mile mark of the ride just over 9 hours into it. I began my trip back toward home and Tennessee from there. My next stop was the Fort Smith National Cemetery back in Arkansas. Seemed like a nice little town and I think it would be worth a trip back to explore it and the hills north further. Made my way back through Memphis and to the outskirts of Jackson. I was well under my time limit at that point so I decided to get off the interstate for a bit and stop at another location. I quick GPS reroute and detour to Hwy 70 had me rolling right on by the Jackson VFW Post 6496. From there it was familiar roads and a short sprint home. I made it back to my chosen finish location at 11:55 pm covering 1126 miles in 18 Hours and 29 minutes. I did run into a few traffic related problems, namely two significant vehicle fires. The first was in Arkansas where a tractor trailer was full engulfed in the east bound shoulder which had closed I-40 east bound and significantly slowed the West bound lanes. The second was another significant vehicle fire. This time in Tennessee and a bus on the East bound side between the Tennessee river and Dickson. I saw the brake lights from a good ways out and began slowing. We came to a stop and sat for about 15 minutes. I guess they opened up a couple lanes at that point because we began inching forward and I covered about 3/4 of a mile before I saw the bus and the firefighters rolling up hoses. There was not much left of the bus so I could not identify it but a couple hundred yards up there were 2 to 3 dozen poor souls wrapped in blankets with some bags and luggage so I assume it was a greyhound or similar. Hope they did not have to stay out there long because temps were in the upper 30's at best. I was thankful for my heated jacket and grips. It was an enjoyable and memorable ride to honor our Veterans sacrifices. If you are a Veteran thank you for your service. The cemetery grounds are always sobering. To quote a line from a TV show I heard recently, "The best of us don't make it home".