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I've looked thru this thread and I'm sad... Very sad on lotsa levels... The truth is that everybody is examining the facets of the problem, not the problem itself. I encourage you to zoom out a bit. When I zoom out, I see the " Roman Empire 2.0 "... Our society has devolved and tribalized to the point where ya can do anything you decide to do; and you can make it happen if ya are big enough to do it... No matter how good or bad... Everything is permissable, because everyone, no matter how sane or insane, has a voice, the capability to act, and a cheerleading section. We have no single shared set of guiding principles. There are no taboos... " If God be dead, all things are permissable "... Friedreich Neitzche said... He was sadly prophetic... We, for the most part, have cast aside all restraint and societal norms. Take a look around. You live in a fallen world. I have little doubt that these shootings could be just as well be politically motivated to cause turmoil at just the right time; and, in fact, be triggered by individuals unknown ALA " The Manchurian Candidate " style; as they are the acts of a deranged mad man. Nothing would surprise me... They seem to come up at very interesting times... We are, indeed, living in dark and troublesome times. The insane you will always have with you, the evil you will always have with you, the opportunistic and unprincipled you will always have with you. No amount of planning and jawboning this issue will fix it. Hearts have to be changed; not more laws enacted nor plans made... leroy...

When I went to High School there were more pickups with rifles in the rack than there were that weren't, not once did anybody go to their vehicle, grab the rifle off the rack, and shoot up the school. There were also zero SROs, and every door was unlocked and people just came and went as they pleased. Access to firearms were as easy as a walk to the parking lot, and zero security measures in place as a deterrent, yet nobody even thought of shooting up the school. I suspect most other rural schools were much the same. There is no more access to guns now than there were in the past, yet school shootings are a fairly recent event. Something else has changed. I'm not forcing religion on anybody, but I will express my beliefs. The destruction of the nuclear family is a big one, which is a religious concept. Almost all of these school shooters have lots of things in common, one main one is a lack of a father in the child's life, and it sounds like this one didn't even have a mother that wanted anything to do with him. Now that doesn't mean that I want some sort of law to keep families together, but that doesn't mean that I should not try to make sure kids have a father and mother in their home if I can.

And we went off the rails when people used this thread as their own personal pulpit. Both groups have made valid points. The Indian issue is just as valid as bringing up the transgender topic. This is an extremely complicated issue that we're all trying to make sense of. I'm not convinced more Christianity is somehow going to stop this issue. Back when more people when to church we had a whole host of other issues. My Baptist friends still think that being gay is a "lifestyle" and will lead to eternal damnation. I'm sure many here do as well. Anyways, I saw this comment on Reddit 4 years ago and it always stuck with me. I may have shared it before but it's worth sharing again.

Plenty of kids are struggling with mental issues, get bullied, feel ostracized, and would at first glance be considered discontents. I certainly went through all that as kid throughout a lot of my time in school. I acted out a lot, got into plenty of fights (which wasn't a red flag event back then as long as it wasn't done with a weapon), and had a disregard for authority at times. I like to think I turned out okay in spite of, and in some small ways, through it. One individual, out of the thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) in a similar situation acted out with tragic and horrific results this week. The singular event is almost too much to deep think into the results on, but it's also not enough of an occurrence to think we need some kind of mass religious doctrine put back into society for behavior control. That's not too far different from wanting to ban a certain type of guns every time someone uses them for evil or criminal purposes. I'm honestly more likely to say access to firearms was the biggest enabling cause of this event, not a lack of religious backed morality. If all this person had was a blade, or baseball bat...I doubt he has the determination or ability to kill like he did. But I'll not for a moment think that taking away my right to own an *assault rifle* is the appropriate response for the morally reprehensible actions of another. Just as I would hope the lack of moral center in that individual wouldn't inspire a religious imprint that society feels necessary to impose. Some folks are going to take this as a religion bashing post...it's not. It's an expression that I see forcing religion through society as incongruent with personal liberty. I may be agnostic, but I respect the individual right of religious liberty to an enormous degree. I just don't want a majority's religious choices seeping into my right to embrace agnosticism and be left out of it.

Picked this one up yesterday at my FFL. I bought it on another forum I belong to, it has SA Reciever, SA GI Bolt, SA GI Trigger Group, and a SA Oprod and a Krieger Bbl. Even though it's a CMP rebuild it looks great to me. Here's some pics let me know what you think about it.

It's the Distraction Fallacy at work.

Best post of the internet. Hit the nail on the head

A lot of folks aren't going to like this post and I think I am honestly past the point of caring. Why? Because the people who won't like it don't have any solutions either and their feelings on what I am about to say is why we are where we're at in the first place. This country has forfeited its moral compass. We have a sin problem that has been intentionally hidden behind the symptomatic mental health problem, which itself is one that not many want to talk about. We have allowed leftists to take God out of our society. People, young and old alike, have practically been forbidden to talk in publicly funded places about the God who heals hearts and minds, who tells us what is right and wrong, and with whom heavy human burdens can be traded for peace that transcends worldly hurts. Kids brains are now saturated from Pre-Kindergarten, forward, with all manner of unnatural doctrines which warp their minds and injure their souls. They are told that boys with XY chromosomes and penises can call themselves girls, and that girls with XX chromosomes and vaginas can call themselves boys, and that anyone who dares conflict those misconceptions is guilty of assaulting their self-identities. Men are Women, Adults are Kids, Kids are Sexual Beings, Left is Right, Right is Left, Wrong is Right, Right is Wrong and God is a Myth. These days, a messed-up kid with a list of grievances in his heart often doesn't have a father AND mother at home to confide in, because we've allowed leftist ideals to destroy the nuclear family. And if the kid does have one or both at home, there is a chance that one or both are terrible human beings, themselves, and maybe the cause of some of the kid's pain. Or, at best, apathetic to it because they are just adult-sized children too, living selfish self-centered, hedonistic lives and lacking any natural compassion for their child. That kid typically hasn't been brought up to understand that there is a real and loving God who cares for him and to whom all of his hurts and pains and anger can be brought to have them sorted out and healed. So that kid just festers with confusion, anger and rage, like an infection below the skin, just waiting to burst and release all of what has been trapped inside of him. And then he makes the news, with a weapon of any sort, and a victim or list of victims upon whom he released his wrath. We are reaping what our society has sown over the past five or more decades. We asked for this. And if we want to change it, we've got to get involved. We have to save our kids by investing in our kids. Not just our biological children, but our society's children. There are a lot of kids out there who don't have mom or dad, or for whom mom and dad are a part of the problem. This isn't a situation where we can write checks and make donations and other people do the work. If you're reading this and you care about where our society is headed, you can personally get involved and you NEED to. Kids from Pre-K up to early adulthood need your mentorship, your guidance and your heart. Like I said, a lot of people won't like this post. So be it.

S&W Model 632-1 327 Federal magnum 3" ported in absolutely new condition. Great for ladies or recoil sensitive folks , Plenty of power and low recoil. ($1650.00) Trenton TN

S&W Model 28-2 Highway Patrolman .357 magnum with Herrett Shooting Star grips as well as original diamond magna grips. Pinned barrel, recessed cylinder. Grip numbers match the gun. According to internet search, serial number puts manufacturing between 1963-64. First three digits are S232 ... for anyone more savvy in researching the date. $1200

Withdrawn

Every time there is something particularly stinky cooking politically or economically a tragedy emerges... Ain't that Interesting..? Could it be that a gubt operative, entity, or persons unknown be conspiring to spread uproar, suspicion, lack of trust, and windbaggery for more gubt intervention and control ALA another " emergency ", or to simply cause chaos. Interesting to think about... wondering leroy...

Funny. That is exactly what I ordered about 1.5 months ago except I then upgraded the wood again to the collector grade when it became available about 2 weeks ago. I am looking at 12-13 months for the build time. Can't wait till I get it.

This is more my style: Model 89 - 500 S&W - Big Horn Armory I ordered one with upgraded wood a month or so ago. Scheduled to be built in roughly 15 months

It appears the topic has left the building.

I didn’t say it was better or worse, but if you can’t understand the different mindset of a lone gunman shooting up a school and a government policy to eradicate a people from their land, I can’t help you. Last time I checked the discussion was trying to figure out why kids are shooting up schools, you and others seem to think it has something to do with how the government treated the Indians over 100 years ago, which is insane to me.

Well said. Last time I checked, a personal, individual choice needs to be made to be a follower of Christ. It's the moral compass I choose to follow. Some may call it free will. Our societal woes also are be driven by subjective morality, "I'm a pretty good dude and anything bad I do isn't illegal (or not that illegal) and not as bad as people I know or read about in the news." At time of the event, as Tom Givens says, "it's doesn't make a effing bit of difference why he is doing it." From reports, LE response was not "industry standard" and the fact he barricaded may infer murder and surrender. I don't have the source, be seem to recall an n emerging trend in these active murderer events is escape/surrender vs. martyrdom.

What would you suggest we do about the indians living in poverty? I agree they got a raw deal, but I or anybody else alive today didn't have anything to do with it, why am I guilty of the sins of my forefathers? I'm guilty just because I'm white and happened to be born in the US, neither of which I had any control over. I 100% agree that we should love our neighbor as ourselves, but I think we all fall short of that from time to time. I do agree that we should quit trying to edit history to suit our needs. I also agree that you can be the best parents in the world and have a rotten child, I've seen it happen. It is also true that you could have the most rotten childhood anybody could imagine and still turn out alright. Both of those scenarios are out of the norm though. I can't lay my finger on a single thing that causes somebody to want to go into a school and shoot it up, I think it is an accumulation of a bunch of things to create these monsters, but I do think a collapse of the traditional family has a lot to do with it. The problem with that is, nobody wants to hear that you should put more thought into who you marry and have kids with, and you need to try harder to stay married and take care of your kids, and you shouldn't have kids outside of marriage.

Society has collapsed as a whole. We've had devices readily available to create mass casualty events for well over 100 years, but indiscriminate mass casualty events on innocent people and children is something that really just started in the last 30 years. I mean, even in the wild west where everybody carried a gun and a short temper would never think of just going in and shooting up a school or church. David is 100% spot on, we have schools that are not much more that indoctrination camps to make good little liberals, kids with just one parent or no parents, and all other matter of debauchery that has now become commonplace. You have the government, the Sate run media, and social media all pushing this agenda, and willing to destroy anybody that speaks against them, and don't even realize that they are the ones causing this problem. This isn't something that came about in the last few years, I will submit it really started gathering steam in the '60s with all the peace, love, and "free" thinking. It has really went into overdrive within the last 10 years or so. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see us doing anything but getting worse and worse, people as a whole have just become to depraved and self centered to even consider a different point of view. We have to try though, and try hard any way we can. To fix the problem will take years, because it took us many years to get to this point. I don't think God is punishing us for our bad behavior, but he is willing to watch us reap the rewards of our foolish actions.

Here's a couple of more.

Just picked this one up at my FFL yesterday. I purchased this one from another forum I belong to, it has an 8 3/8" Bbl.

Thinking about selling a few toys, tavor ts 12 with magpul flip ups and tavor sar Davidsons edition woodland camo with holosun dot . Ts12 1100 Tavor 1800

Up for sale I have a very nice AR9 Pistol -Anderson lower -CMMG Banshee 100 upper -Radion Raptor charging handle -Magpul extended mag and bolt release -SBA3 Brace -(5) 32 round colt style magazines -Vortex SPARC red dot not included SOLD Can meet within a reasonable distance

Smith & Wesson 629-6, .44 Magnum, Deluxe, 6.5 inch full lug barrel. Appears to be unfired after leaving factory, but not 100 % sure. Resent purchase from auction. $1200 or trade for U.S. or German military arms, plus or minus cash depending on deal. Will be sold with bill of sale with state issue I.D. recorded on sale document for seller and buyer. Can meet in in Greater Nashville area.

I guess I'll have to cave to the pressure now lol.

I agree. It gets exponentially worse as it grows.

DSA SA58 .308 with bipod and scope. Includes one mag. Asking 1550.00

Yet you advocate for more government. I don’t get it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum (And institutions like ALEC and The Heritage Foundation are the institutional core of political conservatism.) The Reactionary Mind makes many of the same suggestions. American conservatives essentially succeeded the Jacobites as the part of human society that will find any way to argue that God decides who is in charge and God says it should be them. It isn't much different from how the Roman Empire collapsed into the Christendom for a thousand years to begin with. If you read Edmund Burke, the father of modern conservatism, that's basically what he wants. Conservatism has always been about hierarchy and who they feel is deserving of being at the top of it."

Which is even worse.

Indigenous peoples should be allowed to live anywhere in this country tax free as long as they can afford it. They should be given reparations, not reservations! I was waiting on the “I wasn’t alive” response. The natives suffer the same negative residual effects as the descendants of slaves. It’s not anyone alive today fault. It is what it is. The thing that’s damning to white, conservative Christians is no one can hear your voices until you feel something personally threatens you. It seems that guns are more important than people to some of you. Look at the b.s. that’s being called CRT. Only a nation embarrassed by its past would limit the availability of its entire history. For example, The 1619 project should be available in all schools. It should make people uncomfortable so it will never be repeated. This country will spend trillions on defense and arming so-called allies, but can’t ensure that veterans, the mentally ill and children are properly housed, fed, are safe in school and have health care. The decline of this country is because it’s people and it’s leaders are hypocrites. Sadly, pride will never allow for Christ like change. America will go down in history on the same level as the Roman Empire if the people don’t change. It wouldn’t be the first time that God has allowed a people he loved to be punished.

That was the government that did that, not lone gunmen just going in and shooting up a indian camp.

Yeah we stuck to indian villages full of women, children and old people!

How many of you now have this song stuck in your head?

Bump with a price drop. Surely someone wants a security system for when they aren't home - I'm guessing everyone on this forum has a security system for when they are home.

I would say that God put that moral compass in your heart. I agree with you about holding parents more accountable, but not just parents. It takes a village and I bet there's a lot of villagers asking themselves some very hard questions. I hope all those officers turn in their badges. I understand that LEO's arent soldiers, but court rulings aside, no one in that community will trust them anymore.

As an atheist, I will take a bit of a different view, but will ultimately not be far off from what I think most "God" people on here are saying. First, I don't believe that you have to be "religious" to understand right from wrong and to have a moral compass. Morals is a broad subject and we aren't going to agree on everything, but it's pretty simple to know right from wrong in the context of killing people. Why does this keep happening? Because for the most part, no one is held accountable. In the case of kids doing these things, we need to start holding parents accountable. I don't just mean a slap on the wrist or financial. I mean with extreme prejudice. If you want to coddle, cajole, and otherwise not take any responsibility for how your kids acts and the actions they take, then society should emphatically make an example of you. At some point, even the dumbest people stop putting their hands on the hot stove.

As a Christian, I don't think God sees any good in this. We (country and world as a whole) did this. God doesn't cause tragedies like this, but he is willing to let us reap the rewards of our sinful ways. This country is broken, and I would submit it is a direct result of turning away from God and family. I'm not here to force my beliefs on everybody, but that's the way I see it.

I usually tell people who have problems with Glocks to remember to point their support hand thumb at the target. This forces you to roll your wrists forward which gets the sights on target. People always say "lock your wrists" but that means nothing me to at all, my wrists don't have keyholes Over time, you just automatically tell yourself, "Pick up a Glock, thumb toward target"

Sir, I beg of you to please give this some more thought. Granted, this is a forum of gun owners, for gun owners, by gun owners, but don’t make the mistake of equating the carrying of a firearm with the possessing of the internal fortitude to actually use one to end the life of another human being. It’s very easy for us to sit here, while in relative comfort and safety, and criticize these officers for their actions (or inactions), is it not? This is always a temptation for most of us, but I pose the question “how can we be certain that we’d do any better?” Do you want to know how to tell the difference between a veteran of the military versus a vet that has been in combat? A man who has been in combat will never second guess a man’s actions once the bullets start to snap, not from his armchair, anyhow. I attest to you right now that until one experiences such an encounter, there is absolutely no way to know how one might react! With God as my witness, I will say that a man whom everyone counted on as being a leader became a quivering baby, and some others that I would’ve bet my life would be the first to call for mama while sucking their thumbs actually transitioned into absolute animals! Is this logical? Not at all but on my very life I can attest to the reality of it. Please, sir, know that I respect your opinions whether or not I agree with you or not. I’ll go a step further and encourage you to speak out from your heart no matter what people like me have to say. I see how you get knocked around a bit on here for having a bit of different perspective than the status quo and that’s a very, very good thing in any conversation. I applaud you for it…doesn’t mean I have to agree though, same for you. Fact is, fellers, there is nothing that can be done, ever, to prevent this type of thing when the perpetrator is determined. I know there are some people on here that have worked in jails and prisons…I’m sure they all have stories about the resourcefulness of the determined criminal mind. The sad truth is that these incidents begin in the home….the family, or sadly, the lack thereof. There is an attack on family, morals, community, and God that is being hurled at as all from myriad fronts, but it is the corrupt news media that is the spearhead. Until they are held accountable (you know, the concept that all the rest of us are guided by) for what they are knowingly and maliciously doing to the people of this country, it can only get worse! Propagating lies, fear, anger, and division to the masses, and for what? Ratings? Greed? Entertainment? It is pure, unadulterated EVIL. There is only one WAY to overcome evil.

Amen to the last 2 paragraphs. It's a Godlesss Society we live in or as you said a society being run by the adversary. Satan has taken over and theres no way god is happy looking down at all the things going on. I'm not necessarily talking about this event here as much as all the other crap going on in the country. He is a vengeful God and people need to get to know him quick, I'm not sure how much time we have left. i'll be on that narrow path right there with you JD.

They say the K in monkey is silent.

Way to troll, big guy.

Have you considered adoption? I know where there's an English kid (size- medium) looking for a good home....

I think Fauchi did….

I have no words for this monstrosity. A Marlin 45/70 with the MI treatment.

Fantastic rifles. Can't go wrong there. Their triggers make great upgrades to an AR platform as well. Big fan.

I absolutely love my 14.5” Super Duty. One of my favorites.