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The problem is that the less it will penetrate drywall the less it will penetrate the bad guys.... There are no legit "bumper sticker sized" answers to this. Things are complex. If you want a round that will not penetrate things you need either a light weight thing (ping pong balls are notoriously bad at penetrating things) or something designed to break apart that is moving extremely fast. Some people recommend birdshot for shotguns. In my opinion that's a suboptimal idea. The tiny little pellets make penetration through multiple layers of drywall less likely but at the same time they also make penetration deep enough to hit vital organs less likely on the guy or guys you are trying to stop. Birdshot wounds tend to be nasty looking surface wounds with little penetration unless you shoot them from 3 feet away (or closer) . I'm frankly more concerned with making that guy who is trying to kill me stop what he is doing immediately when I hit him than I am about what happens in an uninhabited room IF I miss him. And in fact my HD shotgun is loaded with full power 000 buck because semi autos run more reliably with full power shells and 000 patterns tighter than full power 00 loads due to the way the pellets are stacked (8 vs 9 ) in the shell. Tighter pattern is less likely to have a "flier" that misses. If you run a pump I'd roll with the Federal Low Recoil Flight Control 00 or Flight control #1 buck. Flight control delivers extremely tight patterns ...especially at across the room distance. Bird shot is for birds...not people , some of whom are the size of black bears. On .223 things are complicated by barrel twist. If you want the least penetration and a round that will still probably perform well enough to stop someone reliably then the 40 grain Blitzking or Hornady V-Max round at about 3600 - 3700fps will break up when it hits something but still ruin the bad guy's day when he gets hit with it. IIRC Phoenix PD had good results with it out of their Steyr Augs in the 1990s. The down side is that a 1/7 twist barrel can spin the jackets off of 40 grain bullets in flight because of the extreme speed. But then again how far will they be flying in your house? Maybe 7 or 8 yards? If you are running a 1/7 twist I might go with a 50 or 55 gr V-max . The 55gr V-max is what I have loaded in my AUG (1/9 twist) for indoors and 55 gr gold dots for outdoor use. It seems odd that we never seem to really devote much time to worrying about our Gold Dots or HST or DPX rounds in our CCW pistols penetrating too much on a miss in the streets where there is a whole world of people out there to potentially be hit but we are terrified of what a miss will do inside a house.... This seems kind of ironic when we are shooting a shoulder fired weapon which is far easier to hit with than a pistol and the longest shot you are taking in most houses is overwhelmingly likely to be less than 10 yards and generally at someone who is closing distance with you.... I think if we just spent more time actually becoming better shooters the other stuff takes care of itself.

No matter the type and caliber, except 'bird shot', expect it to go from one end of the house and out the other.

The issue on Amazon is that in a lot of cases Amazon houses inventory for their vendors. That would be fine except they pool the item and do not separate it by who sent it to them. So some bad vendors have inferior products shipped in with the box and SKU of a well know valuable item. So when you order, Amazon just grabs the first one and ships it. You could be ordering from Amazon directly, Vendor A, or Vendor B and still get a package sent to co-inventory by Vendor F. So somethings when you see a Sold by Vendor X, but fulfilled by Amazon, this is what is happening. Shines some light on how some vendors can sell items at such good prices, they sent counterfeit items into the pooled inventory. Then you play roulette as to what you actually get. Not saying this happened here, but could explain it. I used to run into this with software A LOT. Order Office and get a good looking box containing a CDR with Sharpie written on it.

I have a SAIGA direct from Mother Russia. I have done a few things to it to get to run like a semi should, changed the gas puck and put in an adjustable gas tube plug. Mine will bump fire the cheap WWB 12 you get from wally world, you know, bugger hook in a belt loop. Made an adapter to use different chokes, even use a rifled choke for slugs, makes it a minute of paper plate at 100 yards. Buy some cheap ammo, shoot it a lot on the cheap ammo. Then buy a few boxes of different ammo, slugs, buck and heavy shot. Then figure out what your shot gun likes.

Then there's the guys like me. My truck gets washed when it rains. Once a year or so I take out the floormats and shake the top 2 inches of crap out. I also figure that oil leaks prevent rust, and oil is fairly cheap. My last truck was at 363k when I decided to park it and buy another. Sold it earlier this year, the new owner is happily driving it daily, albeit it's much cleaner than when I owned it. I figure it will quit any day now as a result of all that cleaning ...

Clean! But I see your 02 clean engine bay and I show you my 03 H1 Hummer, that's the frame rail, fuel pump, transmission and drive shaft at the top. Now who has OCD....lol

I'm sure its gonna be a simple fix as I'm figuring its a spring issue with these being so old. I'm a sucker for old Eastern bloc guns so when I seen czechslovakia I had to get it. Lol

My reasoning is mostlly based on a situation that happened to a friend of a coworker. He apparently got involved in some road rage incident in which a gun was supposedly displayed. From my understanding he was in some serious trouble and eventually went to court to answer the charges. The case was postponed on several different occasions because the "victim" never showed up to testify and the case was eventually dismissed. He was out of tens of thousands of dollars in attorney's fees because of that accusation though. Dunno if he could sue the accuser to recoup attorney's fee or not though.. Since I drive armed 99.9% of the time,I just want to kind of protect myself from some vindictive road rage driver who may try to say I did something like that. I still haven't decided if I will get one or not but the thought of losing all that money over a false accusation is scary.

I’ll be happy when this is well and truly over if only for the death of this thread.

I'm a 1911 guy. I have a bunch of 'em in .45acp and .38 Super. Until recently, I've always considered a 9mm 1911 to be blasphemy. But, I have been curious as to what all the fuss was about. They do seem to be quite popular. At the gun show today, I gave in to temptation. I bought one. I went just intending to look at them. Actually, I really wanted a Commander size. But there were only a very few in the whole show and only full size guns. After passing on a Colt and a stainless Springfield, both priced at well over $1000, I stumbled across this. Rock Island Armory 1911-A1 Tac II. I admit, it was an impulse buy. I have no idea what got into me? This thing has all the bells and whistles. Its like brand new, not a mark on it anywhere. I don't think its ever been fired. But there was no box. It does have a nice trigger pull. Clean and crisp. I know I paid too much, but what the hell? Everything is over priced these days. Like any new 1911, I will make a couple of changes to suit myself. The flat MSH will be replaced by an arched one and the FLGR will have to go. But I think that's all I'll change. Parts are ordered. Once I get them in, I'll take it to the range and see if a 9mm 1911 is all its cracked up to be. Looks like today I had an expensive brain fart.

After owning a few Fords and seeing lots of reliability issues of friends’ Jeeps and GMs, I just no longer get very interested unless it says Honda or Toyota. I’ve taken a lot of static about driving foreign cars, but what is a foreign car? A foreign company that lets Americans build them or an American company that lets foreigners build them? My 06 Tacoma was built in California, but Ford’s new Bronco Sport and Maverick are built in Mexico and Rams and F-150s have been foreign made off and on over the years. I decided years ago to forget if it’s American or Japanese and buy quality. Now I have a Tacoma and a 4Runner.

Amazingly, my 02 Tundra doesn't leak a drop of oil, or any other fluid. I'd know as I'm fairly OCD about keeping the engine bay clean...

You got me beat. I have a 2006 Mazda Tribute (rebadged Ford Escape) with the 3.0L V6. A hair over 200K. Besides regular maintenance (fluids, brakes, tires, plugs), I had to have a leaking midpipe in the exhaust replaced, but that's about it. A slight oil leak (like 1/2 qt every 5K miles or so) is the only problem.

Optics Planet might be slow, but I have also had good luck ordering some parts. Just know that if it is not on stock it might take months. Midway, Primary Arms, Brownell’s, and Natchez Shooter’s Supply all have been better on getting the items to you quickly.

I had a cz 70 back when you could get one for $69. Actually bought at the rod and gun club in Nuremberg. It went with me along with ruger 89 on a deployment. Yes against regulations, I know. Was comforting to have ammo and side arms long before we were issued ammo in the sand box. I never needed it, never fired it. When I finally took the cz to range years later, it was a jamamatic, pins starting working loose and it locked up. I traded it at a gun store for ammo. The ruger 89 of course was always rock solid and reliable.

I've got a vepr and I can't say I've ran that but I've never had a problem out of any ammo after the 1st month. It would hang up on Winchester white target loads, maybe one in a mag. Shot a good bit of buck & pinged steel with slugs to break it in n its been super smoooooth.

I didn't personally know anyone at all who has died of Covid. So according to your premise, it's valid to surmise nobody has died of it at all. - OS

private security company. unless you are an on duty law enforcement officer, following a speeder is a ticket able offense that adds danger to an already dangerous situation. your admission to tailgating in an old Tacoma POS makes me more worried about your driving than his. at least when I go triple digits it's in something capable of doing so safely. first car I owned after getting my license was a solid white like this one. retired cop cars are a great resource for second cars or people with small budget. they are well maintained and tough so they hold up well. they also provide some return on taxpayer investment.

It’s a thought.

I would think that should be a fairly easy thing to accomplish. Put a fork in it, it’s done.

Good advice. Thanks for posting

My brother in law ordered one of these. I don't know if he's had problems or not.

Well if you’re going to confession might as well get the 22tcm9r blouse for it before you get there.

DING! We have a winner. It's real, but has been a political tool from the beginning.

Same here and I disagreed with several people I know who made this same argument. Covid will go away when certain people can no longer use it to push their agendas.

I think you will like it. I fell in love with mine once I shot it. My 9mm is the most accurate 1911 I have.

Somebody should start a petition to make ammo packaging and magazine capacity line up.

Much ado about nothing. Just buy 5 packages of buns, along with 4 of hotdogs, and you have a perfect match. Then, just invite 39 friends over for a cookout ...

Just don't put ketchup on hot dogs no matter if on bread or bun!!

FWIW, this was meant to be tonge in cheek, because its a bit funny versus it being a serious thing. I appreciated it after a year that has been pretty tough politically in the activism arena and thought the humor of the petition was more self evident than it may have be or that most like to see the humor in things. My bad.

Actually, the only wieners I buy anymore come in packages of 8 (Nathan's) but like hipower, growing up it was normally bread instead of buns. A pack of buns and a loaf of bread cost about the same and there wasn't any money to waste.

You've got some great minds to plug into here. If I'm not mistaken, Luckygunner or some such place did a test with various thickness drywall and manufacturers rounds? Bet some google-fu can find it. That being said, I'd look at a different platform, like a shotgun, for close home defense. Rifle rounds move at 2000+ fps and are only 1 projectile. Target loads in a 20 ga. have scores of projectiles, and won't go into the next room.

Be very wary of treating guns and ammo differently than any other general items in the greater sphere of commerce. Eliminating the sales tax is one of those feel good things, but it sets a precedent that guns and ammo are not general commerce items, and that restrictions on their commercial sale are allowable. Better to keep them blended into the mix.

Castle doctrine does apply to your vehicle, but the passenger compartment has to be breached…not that you simply felt threatened. One can always drive off…avoiding the situation is paramount.

Or if you do, smile

This, might be the best advice given here so far ...

I do worry about uninformed or uneducated folks deciding to use deadly force to protect their property. It seems like that is/was often depicted on TV and in movies. Someone is stealing a car or some other piece of property and the owner pulls their gun to stop them or shoot at them. IRL (at least in Tennessee) someone is going to jail, and it is not just going to be the thief.

Welcome neighbors! As the three stars on our state flag indicate, we have three distant regions in our state. If you like mountains, the only free fee National Park in the nation (Great Smokies Mountains), lakes, and of course Dollywood and Pigeon Forge for the kids, then it East Tennessee. Middle Tennessee is great also with the Nashville vibe and gentle rolling hills. West Tennessee is flat, hot in summer but then there is Memphis, bbq, and if you like to roll the dice it’s near.

Welcome to the forums Melissa. A friend of mine moved from here in Southern Middle TN to Florida when he retired a few years ago. He sent me this link last yesterday:

Permission slips from the state don’t make the irresponsible responsible and a lack of one doesn’t make the responsible irresponsible.

“Fairly OCD”? You’ve got a full-blown condition.

I'm happy to help you..... It's, the non alcoholic version of the 6.5 Manbun. I will laugh & show scorn & derision at every opportunity.

The other guy didn't fire, just brandished. What you are hearing and seeing is the guy(the one recording) firing rounds through his windshield at the car. I have no idea how he wasn't charged.

No, but you do get a participation trophy

But you can try to beat it out with a 2x4

you can't fix stupid!

Speaking of my previous post, check out this idiot who had a dash cam and got caught up in road rage. How he hasn't been charged I don't know but it was very stupid.