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I really do believe we need to bring back the asylums. While they absolutely had problems and needed reforms, they served a valuable societal role. In the zeal to address the abuses that went on within them, I believe that the baby was thrown out with the bathwater.

There are some things worth paying for that might benefit society. I suspect that giving people access to mental health treatment may be one of those things. Whatever we're currently doing isn't working.

I understand the concerns, but our current method of dealing with the mentally ill by allowing them to end up on the streets until the commit serious enough crimes to warrant prison time isn’t working. As a society we shifted the responsibility of dealing with the mentally ill from medical professionals to police. That’s been terrible for everyone. The sick most of all.

Link below for a natural dog soap that really works IMO. We quit using the chemicals collars for our three dogs due to reported health issues. Link is for a single bar, but they offer it in the multiple bars which brings down the cost per bar. We just got a case to share with family. We ran into the family that makes the soap in Lynchburg a number of years ago and been using the soap ever since. They are out of Pulaski. https://doggysoap.com/collections/doggy-soap/products/doggy-soap

My maternal grandfather was a demolitions expert in the early part of 1900's. Amongst some of his work was the WWI War Memorial, Municipal Auditorium, and Union Station in Kansas City, MO. This was back when you couldn't get as far away from the explosions as you can now. My grandmother told me of his story just once. As the story goes, being that close to repeated explosions can induce a type of psychosis to which he fell victim to, and they committed him into an asylum in St. Joseph, MO when my mom was just 3 years old - about 1940. One day grandpa called grandma, (who was a nurse), and told her, "Daphne, you've got to get me outta her. They are going to kill me!" Grandma assured him that wasn't going to happen and to just relax and get better. The next day grandma got a call from the asylum to be informed grandpa was dead. They claimed that he slipped on a puddle of water and hit his head on the metal frame of his hospital bed and died. My grandma - unlike my paternal grandpa who exaggerated stories - was known to tell the God's honest truth. I have no reason to believe that what she told me many decades later was the truth of what happened. Regardless of the above, I think that it was a huge mistake for the Supreme Court to disallow the ability of family members and the judicial system to force someone against their will into mental health facilities when it is obvious that the person needs mental health treatment. We can run such places much better now, and should do so.

I'm surprised to hear you say that. I would be really concerned about who gets to decide if a person should be admitted to an asylum and what the criteria is. Seems like it would be easy to abuse. My turn to go conspiracy theorist. Imagine them throwing people in asylums if you have political views deemed to be too extreme. Isn't China the one doing reeducation camps? I'll pass.

I see or hear the word chiggers and I start to twitch. PTSD I guess from those things. They are from the devil. I will soak my body in kerosene if I can avoid those creatures from hades.

There’s not enough info for anybody to really offer a solid opinion. The circumstances of why your father’s background check was ultimately denied, and a detective was involved in ensuring the return happened make all the difference in the world. Considering how sticky those types of legal issues can be, I wouldn’t recommend broadcasting it or seeking advice about it over the Internet. The closest I will come to offering a real opinion is this. That gun is no longer new, and is no longer worth the same as a new gun at full retail price. If your dad is a prohibited person, and aware that he is a prohibited person, which I don’t understand how he wouldn’t be aware if he is, he should consider himself lucky for getting off with only a $180 restocking fee. (For The record, I don’t believe the concept of a prohibited person is just. One has either paid their debt to society, or they should be in jail. Free citizens should be treated as whole citizens and retain their rights to self-defense.)

They have serious thorns.

I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said there is already enough money. They just need to stop spending 2 million dollars researching the reproductive notions of the three eyed, one legged, red breasted chicken moth and place priorities on the items that do something for the people. If you want to see just how "important" all of this is to the people, let people decide what "causes" they are willing to spend their tax money on when they pay their taxes. Add as much as you want to any cause you want. I'll wait and see how many are willing to pay more for any of them.

I think you touched on the key here. Something along the lines of at least two family members in conjunction with consultation from a mental health professional being able to make this call. Lots of checks and balances will have to be put in place top to bottom throughout the entire process and treatment phases. But the current method is untenable and I believe has a severe degrading influence on society as a whole

I'd say a psychologist. They could commit for 48 hours or so for an evaluation, and then the judge and psychologist can decide to what extent it is needed. Mental health treatment is much better than it was in my grandpa's day.

There are people that belong in asylums and those that don't. I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. My mom and grandmother both worked at a Mental Hospital when I was growing up. There were some things that weren't great, but if you ask most anyone that worked there, the people in it needed to be there. It is less about the people there and more about the policies and procedures applied to those people. I think that can absolutely be improved without much argument from anyone. Like anything, we know much more today that we did 30 years ago when many of these institutions were phasing out. Erik, to your point, you are correct, I am not interested in higher taxes to fix this issue. We don't need to raise taxes to do it. We need to stop spending money on stupid #### that provides zero value to the US or it's people and put that money into things that do help us. Our government has enough money to do a lot of things, they simply choose not to. I think the bigger issue which will never be solved is the exploitation of tragic events. It's all about money as is everything else in life. These news organizations in many ways glorify these terrible events and give people who are already on the edge the view that everyone is being wronged in some form or fashion and people need to stand up. Ultimately, I am willing to accept that bad things are going to happen. You hope they don't happen to you or someone you care about, but at the end of the day, life goes on. If you think there is a fix for any of this I have some ocean front property in AZ to sell you.

You are correct but every time this is proposed others cry socialism when it comes to paying for this care.

A veteran of both the Franco-Prussian War and World War I in his old uniform as part of a veterans rally Germany 1936.

We have a lot in common.

this IS my social media. I have found I do not care to associate with most people. If I want to be social I normally go out somewhere people are. Mainly car shows, gun shows, and church.

There is no doubt that it is. People post way too much personal stuff online - even if they think their privacy setting protects them, which they don't. It may not even be a "friend" but your friend might mention what you have in casual conversation to another, or overheard by another, who decides that they want what you have.

I've never understood the reasoning for posting vacation pics on facebook while still on vacation. That just seems like a "come rob my house" advertisement.

https://www.leupold.com/deltapoint-micro-glock After waiting (in)patiently for the Leupold DeltaPoint Micro to be in stock, I finally got one in my grubby little hands. Once I used a sight pusher to get the rear sight of my Glock 26, then installing the new red dot was a breeze. There is a small plate you slide in the rear sight slot and use 2 screws (torqued to 25 ft/pounds) that holds the sight in place. I still need to spend some range time to zero the red dot. But I thought y’all might be interested in my initial thoughts on the sight. First off, my primary reason for wanting the DeltaPoint Micro is that like many older shooters I have presbyopia (aka old man’s eyes) requiring reading glasses; therefore seeing standard iron sights becomes a problem. I’d considered getting a new slide for my Glock 26 multiple times, but ended up just buying an IWI Masada that was optic ready for about the same cost as what I’d pay for a slide or having my existing slide milled and coated. While the Masada with a Holosun 507C GR X2 convinced me I liked having a red (or green) dot on my carry firearm, the Masada is a bit big for my summer carry piece. I’m still not a big fan of the Avenger style holster which sticks out more in the front than a pancake holster. The main feature of the Deltpoint Micro is it’s small size allowing the red dot to replace the rear sight and still work with most holsters. As you can see from the photos below, it works perfectly with my pancake holster since it only extends in front of the rear sight cutout about 9/16th of an inch. The DeltaPoint Micro also has a couple of dots on the rear of the sight allowing you to use the standard front sight as a backup sight in case the red dot fails. The small size of viewing area of the red dot also makes it significantly harder to pickup than the green dot of the Holosun 507C. But I believe a part of that comes from not shooting the G26 in awhile and the difference in the grip angle of the pistol. Given the amount of time I spent with the Glock, I don’t think it’ll take much practice to retrain my muscle memory and picking up the red dot should become much easier. If you get the front sight lined up, then seeing the dot is effortless. It’s a lot easier to see red dot than the iron sights sans reading glasses. Although I paid retail ($399) for the DeltaPoint Micro, I don’t think it’s a bad deal as unless you buy an optics ready (MOS) Glock, you’re going to spend more than that on a good dot sight and slide. Note: Glock doesn’t make a G26 MOS. When the availability increases and the street pricing on the DeltaPoint Micro starts coming down, I think it’ll be a very good deal and will likely pick up additional sights for my other Glocks. Just a reminder that in addition to the Glock version, Leupold also makes the DeltaPoint Micro for the Smith and Wesson M&P line: https://www.leupold.com/deltapoint-micro-s-w-m-p

Up until the most recent "scare" I have never had an issue with anyone doing what they say they are going to do on TGO. Recently I have had a no show (guy is gone from TGO apparently), and an issue where someone has offered up a gun I was looking for then broke off communication completely when I asked for a price. I guess its the times now. I was raised to do what I said I was going to do when I said I was going to do it. I have passed up higher offers on guns and accessories after I had verbally committed to a deal with another person, even on Armslist. Its the right thing to do. Sorry just venting a little.

I also am an “art” critic. You might have heard of me.

Private sale perhaps?

Not looking at you to directly answer, but a question in general is how many of the active shooters are reaching asylum levels of crazy on the surface that would warrant admission? I think the abuses in putting someone into the asylum can be mitigated with proper legal and medical review...but I'm more concerned with potential abuses inside. But the idea of some kind of mental health facility needing a comeback isn't an instant dismiss kind of notion, it just needs to be very well thought out.

Now they are saying that he was a former employee of FedEx.

I'm beginning to believe there are " code words ", " trigger words ", and " Manchurian Candidates " among us... These shootings are beginning to not look like coincidences to me. I'm beginning to think that this has little to do with " mental health failures " and alot to do with some real bad actors in some very important places causing things to happen that coincide with politically motivated pushes within gubmt.... That is all... sad and wonderin leroy...

There are bad people in all professions, but should we throw the baby out with the bathwater? I would say that in the case of continual forced treatment that a panel of psychologist that are outside of the "asylum's" organization make an independent review panel to provide oversight of the system.

FYI for everyone that isn't going into Death Valley, harbor freight makes a really good but inexpensive 12 volt air compressor that works well. Get a tire plugging kit also. Unless they didn't have a spare tire or didn't know how to use it, they should have had a minimum of 3 good tires?? When I was in west texas all the pickups you saw had 2 or more spares because of the mesquite.

It may turn out that I am way off, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the shooter was a current employee who felt slighted or discriminated against or mistreated or overlooked or a former employee who was recently terminated. Either way, an angry cat who snapped. I’m not sure how enhanced mental healthcare, short of forced commitment, etc would have prevented this and forced commitment would hinge on family/friends seeing signs, which are often not obvious. And I’m with Eric—who decides who gets committed? In an age where NRA members are labeled as terrorists by the left, no thanks.

Supposedly a good guy retrieved a firearm from his vehicle and engaged the shooter when he was in parking lot. Good guy got shot and died according to early reports from a witness/employee. If true, expect the media to harp on how armed Citizens can't be effective. Too bad multiple employees weren't armed and ready to take action in that workplace I say!

Bummer to hear this. We really need much better mental healthcare options for folks.

Perhaps this indicates that limiting crowds, wearing masks and social distancing works to reduce the spread of communicable disease?

It's a contract. Either party can amend it before signing. Strike out the part you don't like. If the other party signs it after you made changes, then the changes are part of the contract. If they cannot accept the changes, you can accept it as-is or look elsewhere.

I have always strongly cautioned my sons and friends who know of my collection to NEVER mention it to other people. Y'all know how the rumor mill works. You tell someone, they tell someone, who tells someone else, etc and so on. Each time the story changes a little bit. By the time it gets around enough, all of a sudden I'm a 90 year old man in poor health who has a gun collection worth a million dollars. Some BG hears it and decides you would be and easy target. I don't need that in my life. While I may show off some of my stuff here and on other gun boards, I will never reveal the full nature of my collection. Hell, we all do it to some degree. We wanna show off our latest acquisition or an old classic. Its part of what our internet community is all about. However, I have actually seen people on forums post a complete list of everything they own. Some of them quite large. That won't be me.

A forum like this is the extent of my interaction with “social media”. I never have understood the need to share my life to that extent with the world. I do have a Linked In account that is just work.

Good lesson here. I don't even talk to friends about how many guns I own. I don't like people to know when we're on vacation. When we have people over I make sure valuables(we don't have many ) are out of sight and guns are put away. Basically, the less people know, the better.

Sounds like someone I'd get along with. Add motorcycles, though. I'm a new member, having been here (the forum and Tennessee) less than a year. So far I've had some limited contact with other members and all have been very positive. Every friend I have was once a new acquaintance.

Very true. I agree. However, word of warning.... Years ago in a passed life I had several saltwater reef aquariums, helped startup a local hobby club, and participated in online chat forums regularly on Reefcentral (TGO for reefers!) We started having club meetings at peoples homes (cuz you can't haul a 200 gallon aquarium to the park!) Really good times: pizza, chips, soda, coffee, great conversations, faces to names, and the trading, OMG the trading... people pull up with 50 gal coolers filled with little plastic baggies... but I digress. One longtime member hosted a meeting at his house to show off a new and fairly rare coral he had just acquired. Lots of new members showed up. A week later, someone had broken into his home during the day, and stole that piece of coral. That was the last club meeting we ever held. I do not invite people I do not know personally in to my home anymore.

It's interesting that you need to show an ID to purchase a gun cleaning kit, yet many States don't require an ID to vote. It's a sad commentary on the status of our society.

I was a new member once. I bet you were too. I’ve had just as good od luck trading with new members as established members.

Been here less than a year. Post when I feel like I should. Try to stay out of the dog house with other members. I have only made on purchase from another member and had no issues whatsoever. In the few months I've been a member I have seen a change myself in the members both new and established. I believe it is a sign of the time we are in. Everyone is nervous and edgy, there is very little trust and zero tolerance. If I am buying I expect to go to where the seller is or chooses. If I am uncomfortable, I would just back out. Some seem to believe they should just not show. As for sales,,,I'm not selling. Every gun I have sold save one I want back. And even that one I believe could have been repaired. I made one deal and asked the man who is local if he would like to meet at the Sherriff's office or police dept. He told me to come to his house. I was a little nervous but went anyway. I met a very nice man, older than myself. he showed me his house his radio controlled airplanes, his HAM equipment. I met his dog, saw a room with many arms. we talked for about an hour and a half. One never knows. mutual respect needs to be restored or society is doomed.

When selling here, I've experienced more "looks like they just created an account for the Classifieds" contacts than in the past. Sign o' the times I guess. While I can't blame them, neither do I want to deal with a complete unknown. So I'm much more picky on communications permissions. As for FTF dealings, I always make sure that we exchange phone numbers before the public meetup and I confirm that meetup via text before I get on the road. So far so good.

I do not think the TGO is changing. But I am a little wary of a new member with zero posts and zero feedback. However, there was a time that we all were in that boat.

I haven't had that issue, but I would certainly leave negative feedback for someone that didn't show up. That is about the only recourse we have. If they post without a price listed, they are probably new to TGO so a good indication to not get your hopes up too much. It is unfortunately a part of the current situation. On the other side, I have dealt with some new guys that have been great. I feel it is important we don't lump them all in to one group, but certainly we need to hold all to our standards (at least when selling ).

You can. But the purchase must adhere to the laws of not just the state of purchase, but also the state of residency of the purchaser.

I get your frustration but there is a reason they say not to shoot the messenger. Check out lady, and even the store manager probably have zero decision making ability on that one. I'm sure that's a corporate policy.

So many things when wrong. After looking at the map they hiked in a direction that appeared shorter to paved road but extremely rough terrain. I know making the right decision is never easy in the moment, but staying with the vehicle or hiking down the road they drive in would have been better options. 22miles even in extreme heat could be done. Wait for night fall and hike hard all night and you could be there before sunrise. They should have had more food and water as well as a mobile emergency device like Erik posted above. It’s easy to armchair quarterback this now but when you go to a place called “Death Valley” you HAVE to prepare to survive if the situation arises.

Erik88, I have one of those garmin I reach devices. I keep the lowest cost subscription just in case of an emergency. Thankfully haven’t needed it yet. Frog4aday, I agree in a life threatening emergency you could drive on the rims to get out of harms way. I don’t understand why they choose to hike to a remote ledge. Maybe they thought they could get a cell signal. The one thing good thing they did was to leave the note. Having the means to fix a flat or a least put air in the tires would have made a difference too. I have been to Death Valley and spent a fair amount of time in the Mojave. Your vehicle needs to be well maintained. I used to carry a well stocked auto emergency kit, extra water, food etc. Even just driving I-10 on the highway thru the desert you see tons of cars that overheat and break down.