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At least on this board, I have a say in what constitutes acceptable dialog. You can believe whatever you want about that day - but take saying it out loud somewhere else. There are those of us who go to sleep every single day with the vision of coworkers jumping out of windows and those towers falling. We can still smell it, and if we try real hard, we can taste it. Seems that sickeningly sweet, metallic taste never really goes away. There are those of us who've been all over the world hunting the people who supported it and carried it out - only to be frustrated in those efforts for a whole host of reasons - political and otherwise. You can certainly be outraged by that. You can be outraged by the fact that we've got people who enlisted after September 11 who've spent their entire careers at war - and are now retiring - many with PTSD that we're still so inadequate in treating. We've lost so much and so many. For those of you who've lost someone you care about or that you served with - I'm so sorry. Know that you're in my prayers daily. For those of you who struggle with post traumatic stress - know that you're in my prayers too. And, I'm always here if you need someone to talk. This community is better with you in it. Yes, we all have fewer liberties than we enjoyed then. We should push back against that. Especially since many of them haven't made the world more safe. I've flown hundreds of time since, and I'm certain I've not been more safe on an airliner than I was when I flew into New York on the afternoon of September 10. But I simply will not allow anyone to disparage the memory of the 2,977 people who died that day. There are plenty of places you can go talk that if you want - this isn't one of them.

Honestly, I've probably allowed a few voices to fester that I shouldn't have. It's stumbled out of the General Politics forum into the larger forum and kind of made it into a place I don't want to hang out. I expect I'm not the only one for which that is true. While we've long been a site that encourages honest debate - there are a handful of folks here that simply do not deserve the assumption of sincerity. I'm going to correct that going forward. I say this in all sincerity Dave, but what else are you looking for? This whole thing has been done in public. All of it. Literally every piece of data you could ask for is available as we struggle with this as a society. It may be too much? Maybe we don't know where to look or what to trust? Maybe that data doesn't align with the worldview we want to hold? I get all that. But there's more good data out there than has been available in the history of man. Conspiracy theories attempt to assign simple explanations to hard problems. This is a hard problem - so if someone is giving you an an easy answer - it's probably wrong. Couple in the fact that as more and more scientists adopt consensus - the conspiracists have to go further and further to the extreme positions. Sometimes I think we need to back up and just read some of these things out loud. That should likely settle it for any honest person. Now, I'll agree that the average American is terrible at assessing risk. We've de-risked everything in our day to day lives to the extent that when faced with an unknown risk - most simply don't know how to approach it. You can never completely mitigate any risk - but neither should we simply assume all risk needs to be accepted. The problem with the "both sides" approach is that one of those sides is literally killing folks right now. Add to that the above factor that the average American sucks at assessing risk, and that's the reason we're less than welcoming to some of this nonsense.

Serious doctors are quite in agreement. They're tired of getting their asses kicked night after night in emergency departments. They're tired of having patients leave AMA because they don't have a place to put them and will have to transfer them far from their home and loved ones. They're tired of losing patients who otherwise shouldn't be dying. They're tired of losing patients with other conditions that aren't getting appropriate treatment because they "don't know what to believe." They're just exhausted. Doctors who play doctors for the TV news - sure they don't agree. That's what they're there for. This is a novel disease - and we're all scrambling in public to figure out how to treat it. We don't know more than we do know - but we're closing that gap. People are staying alive today that would have died in March. Stuff like proning patients, convalescent plasma, Remdesivir, etc - when it's suggested - there are paths to try them with scaffolding in place so that we can see if they actually work. We run trials. There's a reason for that structure - even when we want to hope that something works. Even when early results seem promising - we need data. Take something like hydroxycloriquine. You might say, "what's the harm." But, when we do actual trials, we can see that, "oh, there is significant risk of harm in some patients." so, it's not worth the risk in those cases. Or, in the case of convalescent plasma, we see that it might have beneficial effects in some groups - but not others - so that's helpful knowledge since we have limited supplies. All of this is being done in public. I get it that we all want this to be done with - but looking back - we'll be awed at how fast we inculcated battlefield knowledge into actual practice. Frankly, I hope that we take some of these learnings and in the future, streamline some of the overly burdensome regulatory stuff that limits us today. All that said, when a doctor or group comes forward and says, here's something promising - and we're moving it into trials where the results will be publicly available for peer review - that's great. When you have a doctor who says, "here's a miracle cure" - and especially when you have members of the political class amplify it - then you just need to look to see who's bought stock and who benefits from the position.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CI4KVCkg_xF/?igshid=160oeh95xcwgt

You will also want a good inch pounds torque wrench if you don’t have one. I’ve got plenty of use out of my Wheeler FAT wrench. They have a new digital model I’m going to have to get. https://www.amazon.com/Wheeler-710909-Digital-Firearms-Accurizing/dp/B01B3NW5TG/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=Wheeler+FAT&qid=1608158772&sr=8-5

I love the Holosun on my War Poet. Side loading battery tray makes it even better.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/08/13/make-a-factory-quality-9mm-rifled-barrel-in-your-kitchen-using-salt-water-and-electricity-ecm/ I found this interesting in just how they're cutting the barrel, but the larger project its a part of is a perfect example of what 3D printing can ddo.Printed receiver, mags, and a DIY metal barrel. You can make your own little machine gun today, totally unregistered.

This thread is really starting to wear my patience.

Well, I didn't go for that reason, but thank you for the thought. I don't think I was any closer to Michael than anyone else here, and likely less so. But the times we did meet, talk, or deal; I always felt liked and welcomed into his life...even when he got the better of me. I went for several reasons. My wife said I needed the closure after listening to me speak often of Michael and his illness. Maybe that's true. I guess it was. But I just wanted to pay respect to the life of a man I admired and called friend. After watching the video tributes to Michael, listening to some his musical works and hearing words of love and praise to Michael and his entire family; I guess I did come away with closure of a sort. We all said a temporary goodbye to a husband, a father, a grandfather, and a friend to many. It wasn't sad, it was uplifting. It was love and praise for the earthly life of a man whose life and works touched and enriched the lives of many others. So...represent TGO and this family? Not intentionally. Just wanted to honor Michael Douchette. If I did so, in the grand scheme of things, I was glad to do so, and hope it was done well.

I use Excel also. Make, model, S/N caliber, accessories, and my best guess at value. I have a good catalogue in my head, but the spreadsheet is for my wife if she ever finds herself dealing with that stuff without me.

Nice. Just ordered it.

If you have a MOS system, you really should follow David’s advice on the chpws kit. I always find out this stuff the hard way.

Small businesses are having to make some hard choices on inventory/cash on hand right now. I expect they sell all the 9mm slides they can make. That said, they can probably get other variants, and it's probably worth an inquiry via whatever customer service tool they use to check.

I think I've mentioned it elsewhere, but if you haven't listened to WNYC's Blindspot - you should. It's probably the best, most accurate reporting of the road to September 11th I've heard.

a conspiracy is not always a crazy tin-foil-hat concept that should always be seen negatively. Thats the "pop" definition of a conspiracy (see UFOs and big foot) something being a conspiracy and being debatable is not mutually exclusive. Something can be a conspiracy or a suspected conspiracy and be open to debate. I see a lot of people using the term "conspiracy" to derail and argument, if you present facts to support a supposition or an observation or whatever you like then simply calling those facts part of a conspiracy does not make them any less relevant to the argument. I would go as far to say that in the modern context the term conspiracy is used as censorship language far more often than used correctly. Its important to entertain a wide range of possibilities when you're discussing something that no one here has any insight into beyond what we are told or what we are shown. From the most ridiculous to the most mundane I beleive.

Can’t stop the signal.

You know, you have inadvertently made a connection between 9/11, the Global War On Terror and COVID that I am willing to discuss. Your call to the 9/11 Commission and their observation that the terror attacks on the US that day were retaliation for our involvement in the Middle East hints at the notion that we shouldn't have been over there in the first place. The problem with that line of thinking is that it evokes the concept of appeasement and the flawed logic that assumes that we would be left alone if we left others alone... that doing nothing would be preferable to what we've done. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, regardless of whether you are discussing Islamic terrorism or the COVID-19 virus. Doing nothing, in either case, is actually a decision for inaction and hoping that the threat goes away - which is still an action of doing something. It's a completely useless something but it's a decision, a direction, and an [in]action nonetheless. Our response to the threat of jihad waged against Western civilization may not have been perfect, but it was a response that worked very well when the public and our elected government still had the courage and resolve to wage a fight. It's hard for the bully to throw punches when he's busy defending himself. For a long while we kept the bully busy. When we stopped doing that because we lost the resolve, he started hitting back. Thankfully, after 9/11 we got our resolve back again. For a while. Our current response to COVID is to fight it through the application of some basic preventative measures and of some pretty advanced medical science. We aren't just putting our heads in the sand and hoping that the virus goes away. You seem to like quoting quotable people and written works, so this will be right up your alley: "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing. (Edmund Burke)" Don't be the guy that advocates for doing nothing and hoping the bad thing goes away. It doesn't. Ever. Not without a fight.

Careful. You've got a person in this thread who was there on 9/11 and spent weeks afterward digging through the rubble as part of recovery efforts. You don't want to go down that road here.

Don’t people need to be aware of and investigate Covid conspiracy theories to make their own determinations on risk? Since the election is over; and friends and family members are getting sick or even dying, and state governments are having shutdowns that are destroying peoples businesses and lives; isn’t this the #1 health concern in our lives right now? I’ve never been big on conspiracies theories, but I see some that I think may be real. I just don’t know; but I would like to hear both sides of the equation and make an informed decision? What’s wrong with that?

See this thread.

" Back in the day" a few years ago, unclean, clips still on and unsmelted and zinc culled out WW was $0.50 to $0,75 a pound. Clean (see above) was $1.00 a pound. I have not bought lead in a few years and do not "need" to, so I do not know what the price of the stuff now. Lead is getting hard to find and cost a bit more. Please, what ever you do stay away from car batters, the chemicals that come off when smelted WILL KILL YOU.

Eh... I'll make a concession here. The MOS system works fine if you use the correct length screws. It works even better if you get an improved mounting plate from C&H Precision Weapon Systems. https://chpws.com/

I'll buy the crap out of a 10mm single stack Glock.

FIRST... See this news story: https://sg.news.yahoo.com/gmail-pretty-broken-now-one-224052039.html GMAIL is having massive problems that is causing email to bounce for millions of people right now. I have disabled the feature that I believe is causing accounts to be thrown into an "invalid" state here on TGO as a result of it. I am working through the process of re-validating accounts for people right now. Please give me a little time to get accounts fixed. The Invision Power forum software company is aware of this but there is little they can do to fix it since it's a problem with Google / GMail.

I’m fairly certain everyone who met him likely left feeling that way. He cared about people in a way that simply cannot be faked.

Feeling better this evening

This site also has a lot of good info. https://thewellarmedwoman.com/

Anything for sale in a capitalistic society is only worth what some one is willing to pay.

Me too. Might go for a doe Friday. I’ll see the biggest deer of my life.

Here are some good podcast episodes that my friends over at Guardian News Podcast did with Luis Chirino at Holosun. They're worth listening to, especially on the subjects of the Glock MOS and plate systems. https://www.stitcher.com/show/guardian-news-podcast/episode/episode-20-78213213 https://www.stitcher.com/show/guardian-news-podcast/episode/episode-21-78403788

Which puts Knox County at a .89% death rate, or .95% if you use the other table on the same page, which begs the question, why the difference. https://covid.knoxcountytn.gov/case-count.html Edit: TN 2018 stats put Knox County at 10.3% death rate, no data I could find for 2019 or 2020 so far. https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/health/documents/vital-statistics/death/2018/TN Deaths - 2018.pdf Edit again: Knox County had 263 drug OD deaths in 2018. https://www.tn.gov/health/health-program-areas/pdo/pdo/data-dashboard.html

I know we've cautioned people against pejoratives here in the past. I don't really care about that here. I would just submit that it makes you seem not serious and takes away from whatever merits the rest of your argument may have.

I use an Excel spreadsheet. I probably don't update it as often as I should but I do a thorough updating a couple of times a year. With dropbox I can access it from anywhere with my phone. That works best for me.

Also if there are multiple USB ports on your machine you will need to look for the one with the lightning bolt. That one will charge. It has power share turned on by default.

Yes, you are mistaken. No class required. You have to take a test and pay a small fee? Some people do take a class, but some study themselves without a class.

Key word, "COULD". The country is much bigger than TGO. Many first time gun owners which means in all likely hood they were not raised around other gun owners. Literally the dumbing down of society in that regard. There is no doubt well trained, qualified instructors will do a better job at this. Anybody here tried to teach their wife anything, like tennis or other activities? Professional instruction is generally better received and effective.

I like something glossy. Full format. It's kind of like sitting down with the old Sears Wish Book as a kid. I've tried all kinds of things over the years - but for the last few years I've moved them over to a database in Notion. Since most of the rest of the stuff in my life lives there - it makes sense for guns too. Or at least it did - back before the boating accident.

My lovely wife has one for her Glock 17. She put a Holosun RDS on it. It's a lotta fun to shoot and she is very accurate with it out to 25 yards. If ammo was more plentiful, I believe she'd shoot every day if I'd throw targets for her. Oftentimes, we buy a few of those $3 per case sodas and blast away.

A little expensive but, it's good they have it available.

Sell it for scrap. The hat market was looking red this year.

Ummm, thanks for agreeing with me??

Regardless which way you go use good screws like C&H Precision or Battle Werks . I paid the stupid tax using MOS screws and vibra tite.

I wore soft body armor religiously on patrol; luckily I was never shot. But the guys I knew that were said it will take the fight right out of you. I was attacked and stabbed in the back during a neighborhood riot. I didn’t even know it until the Officer that arrested the guy told me later. A friend of mine was shot a bunch of times with a .22 when the suspect answered the door on a domestic violence call. Some of the rounds went below the vest and in through the open side panels, but it stopped the shots that would have killed him. I used to think that I couldn’t imagine being somewhere that I would need body armor. But I guess today that could be at my house. Although brick, or most any other cover, will stop or deflect rounds better than body armor.

That’s a good question. You would think they have a standardized test and cover what’s on it; but who knows. I don’t see any reviews. It looks like the prices range from around $18 to $40. It might be good for some folks here that have been through them to review them here. I think these are a good deal for some folks. For example, my wife has no interest in shooting or carrying. I do most of my shooting anymore in Illinois, my family has land there to shoot on. I can’t carry in Illinois, but I can have a loaded gun in my vehicle on my Tennessee permit. So, I always have to make sure if the wife takes the vehicle without me; there’s no gun in it. Depending on where we are; that could be a problem. With this permit; it wouldn’t be an issue. Then if she decides she wants to carry; I can train her, and she can then take a class and get the enhanced.

Lost all my stuff in a monumental boating accident.

The library would be extensive. Slapping together an AR is not “gunsmithing”. Gunsmithing is a craftsman’s art that is being rapidly lost, or nearly is....like tuning a revolver action, properly restoring/refinishing grandaddy’s shotgun, replacing the barrel on an M1917 rifle, installing a 1911 trigger, etc., etc.

At these prices, I just might offer a case of 115 grain myself. It's very tempting. I could buy another Glock with it...and there are a couple of nice ones for sale here.

It’s pretty entertaining sometimes to watch the free market at work. I’ve seen some pretty funny ads. Of course, if you need ammo; you probably aren’t laughing.

Or head shots. 2 inches below the belly button will put them in a wheelchair for the rest of their life. Hard to riot and loot from a wheelchair.