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You'd be incorrect. Government does not have the power to grant rights. You are born with rights. Government can only infringe upon them.

My Thailand grips came in today and figured I'd show them off. The thing with these grips is there are a few of them on Ebay but they are all cut slightly different. This set looked like the best contoured out of the bunch and man do they fit sweet in the hand. I'm not a fan of rubber despite its properties in sting management on some guns. The well grooved grip allows a more relaxed grip and still have confidant control in full house recoil. Next I'll see how it prints after some action work and post that here.

Footage just coming through from Mount Juliet Absolutely devastating news & tough to look at. I really hope everyone's ok. If anyone needs any cleanup help, I've got a truck, trailer, chainsaw & all tomorrow off work.

I'm fine, my neighborhood not so much. I live in Germantown next to the Sounds ballpark, and while my apartment complex was exceptionally fortunate, two others a block away were not. It looked bad at 2am, I can only imagine how worse it'll look in daylight Still without power, haven't slept all night, charged the phone in the truck a bit. I've got some pics, but the news has mostly the same damage scenes. Some potent reminder of nature calling the shots last night.

We live just south of I40 about 1/2 mile in Mt Juliet. Daughter woke us at the peak, we went outside and could hear the thing go by just north of I40 about 1/2 mile. Something the hear from a mile away. We are OK, my son lives in Tuckers Cross Roads, the thing went between him and I40, missed his place by 100 yards with no damage, damn scary. All our friends we know out here are OK. Thank God for his blessings every day, you just dont when he will call you.

There is no law against brandishing in this state. If you pull your weapon because of a threat, or you aren’t threatening anyone in pulling your weapon; it is legal. If you aren’t justified, and your intent is to threaten someone its aggravated assault. Example: Hey Joe! Check out my new carry gun. (as you pull your coat back.) Unless you are in a place where carry isn’t legal; you are okay. Another example: Joe! If you don’t get off my property it will be bad for you. (As you pull your jacket back to reveal your gun to your neighbor.) That’s aggravated assault and you don’t have to touch that gun. You do however get a free stay at the local jail. However….. the new concealed carry only laws may have something in them for those people. I haven’t looked at that. But searching Tennessee Code Annotated for brandish or brandishing; there is nothing.

If you have, and I am pretty sure you have not, read the first few passages of the Tennessee Constitution you would know that our Founders had to say: ARTICLE I. Declaration of Rights. Section 1. That all power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their peace, safety, and happiness; for the advancement of those ends they have at all times, an unalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform, or abolish the government in such manner as they may think proper. Section 2. That government being instituted for the common benefit, the doctrine of non-resistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind." "unalienable" means government can not take it away from you, "indefeasible" means you can not give it away even if you want to. Whether you believe there is a God or not, our, (I do not know if they were yours or not) intended the People to be in charge and not the dang government. You will not want to continue to argue with me if we have a right to arms here, because we do, you may wish to let LE be your protector, but they are not, it is not their job, you try to give it away, you are being slavish.

And that’s my point. I’m not saying people don’t need training. Absolutely they do. And if they don’t get it, they risk losing everything they have in a civil suit, or possibly ending up in prison if they don’t fully understand the laws. But rights don’t have government training class requirements. If the state, or some group of concerned citizens think it would be a problem; they could offer free training classes. Heck, an online class can teach you not to leave your loaded gun laying around where kids can get it, or a laundry list of other ignorant things you shouldn’t do could be covered. For free! If Constitutional Carry gets passed there would be no real need for the concealed carry class. So, the training site would already be in place. The HCP classes would remain in place for those that want to carry beyond our state borders. Two things that I said many times should be offered by local government: free seminars by the local DA’s office covering gun laws and the use of deadly force, and free handgun training classes at Police ranges for local residents. If those two things were combined by a city or county the people could be trained at the range on gun safety and accuracy instead of getting bogged down in the gun laws, because that was covered by the DA. When I was a cop if we had questions about a law, we could either stop in or call the States Attorney’s office and they would answer our questions. Obviously, they wouldn’t have time to do that with the public, but they could schedule seminars. But it probably won’t happen, and I suspect that is because being attorney’s they fear the liability of training citizens more than they care about the lives it might save, or the people it might keep out of prison.

I can and will post the language of the amendment that makes the bill tomorrow, but from a perusal of the amendment here is my our take on it. Most people say that they believe in the 2nd Amendment. Most believe that the 2nd Amendment protects a right that every citizen in the entire county has to have and carry guns for all purposes. Most people, at least people from Tennessee, believe God gave us this right. The bill as proposed does not recognize that its my right and your right to have and carry guns, not just handguns. Here are some of those facts. First, it only applies to Tennesseans. Does it say that specifically, no. But that is the trickery of referencing the enhanced permit statute. So, citizens of our border states and other states have no rights that Tennessee would recognize under this bill. Its not being treated as a right but an exception for some citizens to a criminal charge, if it’s a right it must apply to any citizen who can legally own, purchase or possess and handgun. This one does not. Second, by referencing the enhanced permit statute the proposed bill only applies to Tennessee citizens who are lawful citizens or permanent residents who are at least 21 year old or a small set of 18-20 year olds in the military. But under state and federal law, any 18 year old can buy a handgun from another citizen. The 21 year old limit is only a limit on who federal gun dealers can sell to. Existing Tennessee laws already recognize that anyone 18 and up can purchase, possess, own and use a handgun. Third, if it’s a right it should apply based on a person’s right to own guns. This bill does not. This bill fails to recognize the right by adopting the special conditions on the enhanced permit such a person cannot have 2 or more DUIs in the last 10 years as prohibitions on the right to carry a handgun. If you want to include all those prohibitions why not just make the enhanced permit free and get rid of the training requirement because all the other conditions are being used to infringe the right of lawful gun owner? Fourth, if it’s a right it should be a right everywhere. This bill says it only applies where the person has a right to be. What does that mean? If I don’t have a right to be in a mall because I am not wearing a shirt should I also be criminally prosecuted if I have a gun in my pocket? Fifth, it it’s a right it should be a right in publicly owned parks and buildings as well as the streets and all parking lots. This law does not allow citizens who are exercising a right to even go in a park or walk on a greenway. Sixth, if it’s a right you should be able to drive to work and leave my lawfully owned handgun in my personal car. You can if you have a permit because that is already the law but if you just want to exercise your right to carry a firearm you cannot do that under this bill which means you could be fired for leaving your gun in personal car just because YOU parked at work. (Company handbook clause) Seventh, if you want to pass constitutional carry, then treat it as a right that the people have with or without the constitution. That is not what this law does. This law leaves the criminal penalties for illegally carrying a gun on the books. The bill uses these existing criminal laws as a threat to charge people who are only trying to exercise a right and then creates a defense to the criminal charge if the citizen happens to meet all of the conditions, conditions which are really nothing more than infringements. So, if you really want to pass constitutional carry all you need to do is say that a person who can legally purchase or possess a firearm has the right to carry it in Tennessee and to do so in public places (not private), on public property (not private property) and even while parking their vehicles in places where they are allowed to park. Constitutional carry needs nothing more than the removal of infringements. On the other hand if all you want to do is to create a defense to a criminal charge with a lot of conditions and qualifications this accomplishes that.

HB2817

How many more people will be carrying because of this law? Irresponsible people don't really care about laws. You'd be amazed how many people carry regardless of laws. Before the advent of the carry permit, most of the men I knew had a pistol in their pocket.

So because the general public has an attitude we scrap the Constitution? the permit system is a Jim Crow law left over from 1870, the Original Constitution did not require a permit, the Democrats wanting to deny the freed slaves weapons did. That is an incontrovertible fact.

You do not get the Constitution, I will add to your education: Article 11 Section 16. The declaration of rights hereto prefixed is declared to be a part of the Constitution of this State, and shall never be violated on any pretense whatever. And to guard against transgression of the high powers we have delegated, we declare that everything in the bill of rights contained, is excepted out of the General powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate. Article 1 section 26. That the citizens of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime. Cuba may be where you want to live, Government makes all the rules there.

Welcome to Tennessee. We moved down last year from wonderful New York State. All I can say is when I open my eyes in the morning the first thing I do is smile. You will love it here. We sure do!!

Exactly. Our entire system of government was founded on the idea that all rights reside in the people individually who cede certain powers to the government for the purpose of an orderly functioning society. Government grants nothing to the people. It is the people who grant the government its very existence.

I have been a TFA member for a few years.

If that’s directed at me; I never said you indicated someone needed a class to own a gun. You just want a 2nd amendment right to have an asterisk with a training class requirement. And you certainly have a right to have that opinion. As you can see; many agree with you. Many that see themselves as pro-gun. And yes, it is a God Given Right, it’s an inalienable right. As I’ve said many times before, my right to protect myself and my family doesn’t come from a dog like the 2nd amendment. I believe in God, and what other people believe or don’t believe has zero impact on that. The state of Tennessee disagrees with my beliefs and is more than willing to put me in jail if I violate their laws. I am absolutely sure of that.

Welcome to West TN. All we ask is that you understand that we like the way things are around here. If you ever utter the words “we didn’t do it like that back in _______,” it should be immediately followed by a statement to the effect that it’s better here. With that out of the way; Welcome to our home!

I have a kid in Cookeville. He said the tornado went a bit south of his house.

I didn’t know this existed, but here is a website that tracks unintentional shootings. (The numbers to be used later in anti-gun legislation). Those of you that want to tie our constitutional rights to this number will be able to compare it when the new laws kick in. I just put a 2018 to now sample in, but it goes back to 2015. There are stories and news links to go with many of these shootings on the site. It doesn’t tell you how many of the adults involved had been through a carry class. I doubt that would have made much difference. Do people really need to attend a class to know; keep guns away from kids? Or to unload their guns before they clean them? Of course they don't.

Was digging through some of my moulds last night and guess what, I do have a MP 359-640 2 cav Cramer style hollow point mould with all the pins. Cast 170 gr solid and a 158 gr hollow point. Remember buying some moulds on Cast Boolits last year but thought they were 45's. Will be casting some of the hollow points in the next week or so. Will be doing some experimenting with my alloy for expansion. Pb 98.29%,Sb 1.29%, will probably add 1% tin and go from there, or maybe use pure lead and just add some tin. Can shoot them in my Rossi 92 .357 mag. Never an end to this madness of making your own ammo.

This thread is so confusing.

Most new shooters I meet have no idea which eye is their dominant eye. I suspect most people in general do not know which eye is dominant. This is most likely due to them having never had a reason to know it. For a shooter eye dominance is an important thing. I have always used the Miles or Porta Tests to determine eye dominance but whenever I have a paper towel roll handy, it has become my preferred method. Keeps me form having to make sure they hold their hands correctly.

Don’t try to go anywhere around Nashville on Friday. I know all the presidents do this, and they think its expected of them, to show respect for those affected. But all it does is shut down traffic and hamper those trying to get things restored. President Trump, please send one of your representatives that they don’t have to shut the whole city down for and just send your respects on FOX news. I bet everyone regardless of party affiliation in the area would appreciate it.

I've never made a secret of the fact that my first loves in handguns have always been S&W revolvers and 1911s. However, in the category of DA/SA semi-autos, my preference runs to Sig Sauer. More specifically, the older all metal Sigs preferably made in Germany. Honestly, the newer plastic Sigs do nothing for me and I have no interest in them. I currently own four. As you can see, I have a liking for the Hogue smooth wooden grips. I'm also a big fan of the Short Reset Trigger kit (SRT) and all my guns have them. P220: .45 acp made in Germany 1996 P226: 9mm made in W. Germany 1990 P228: 9mm made in W. Germany 1994 P239: 9mm made in USA 2009 I actually traded my way into the P239. Wasn't sure if I was gonna keep it. But all it took was one trip to the range to convince me that its a keeper. I also have a .22LR conversion kit for the P226 and its a hoot! I love it! Any other Sig Sauer fans here? Post your pics!

Well a friend and I went to Chattanooga to visit a friend this past weekend. While we were there, we hit up a gun store or two and loaded up on cheap long guns to bring back home. My four. The 10/22 came with three butler creek 10 round mags and they were clipped together in an awful triangle thing. Got the mags apart. My buddy's trio. I also hit an estate sale Friday and they had this old Tasco. Made in Japan and surprisingly clear so I brought it home for 5 bucks. It's got a good home on the model 60 that I got and they make a nice little pair.

First off condition is everything on older guns like this. Some pictures of it and any accessories or boxes would help to establish that somewhat. Also, what is the barrel length and is it blue or nickle? As far as what they are made of, Origionally they had an alloy frame and cylinder. Around 1954, they changed to an alloy frame with a steel cylinder. So if you're is marked as a Model 37 and no one monkeyed with it, it shoukd have a steel cylinder. How have you established it to be a 60s model? The 37 no dash was made from 1957 to 1988 according to the Standard Catalog of S&W 2nd ed. The exact age will also affect worth.

Thanks Greg. For a little while last night I was having my doubts which way that monster was going and it missed us by about 2 miles but we could hear it and got the hail from it and some wind, not as much as I would have expected after seeing all the damage it produced!

But you can "brandish a firearm". TCA 39-11-611 (b) (1) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. (2) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury, if: (A) The person has a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury; (B) The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury is real, or honestly believed to be real at the time; and (C) The belief of danger is founded upon reasonable grounds. Drawing your weapon to threaten can be construed to be brandishing, but if you have a permit and are in a place you have a Right to be, and. are not engaged in criminal activity, you can do so.

Joined a few months back.

I hear a man from the National Weather Service said that the tornado first landed right at the Tennessee River in West Tennessee and according to their calculations the twister was actually on the ground for 200 miles as it traveled to Cookeville in Putnam County. They said they are getting reports of damage on the entire path it took. I stood on my front porch with SIL and Daughter at 2 AM this morning and we could hear it pass within 2 miles of the houses here and had to back away a little to prevent getting hit by quarter size hail as it passed by. No damage here and SIL is down the road in Carthage helping people from his church cut trees off about 20 houses. Prayers to all that have suffered loss and to the families with loss of life.

What a disaster.....seems like is was on the ground a really long time. Prayers to all effected.

Prayers for sure for all involved. You know there are several crazy things with this tornado, how far it went and what day. Exactly 1 year ago 23 were killed on 3-3-19 in Lee county, Alabama and in 1998 on super Tuesday it hit Nashville at 5 points. Heard a bit ago death toll now at 22 with 16 of them in Putnam county where Cookeville is located. We live about 30 miles north and had a little bad stuff, but no damage. Ya'll hug your loved ones a little tighter tonight if they are in arms reach, if across the country or globe call them and tell them you Love them. Life is just 1 breath away and we aren't guaranteed our next one. Stay safe!!

Unbelievable that some people on this GUN FORUM think that there should be a mandatory training class for a God-given right. Do I think that it's a good idea to get some training? Of course it is! But mandating it for a God-given right is ludicrous. The mandatory class that they have now for the HCP is useless as far as responsible gun-handling and accuracy are concerned, and it's just checking a box for the state. Heck, in my class they didn't even score the targets. The only use that I got from it was understanding Tennessee's laws in the matter.

My son was in a bar in 5 Points that got hit by the tornado. They were right next to the Basement East music venue that got destroyed. After the tornado passed they stepped outside and the first thing he saw was a women that had been killed by flying debris. He then pulled a injured man out of a car. A group of them were having a hard time getting his bleeding under control. Fire dept. finally showed up and took over and walked the group to a safe space. Physically he is ok but mentally he is pretty shook up.

I understand fully what you are saying. I simply don’t agree with it or think it will change anything. There have been many stories on here from members that have witnessed people do stupid things or have the inability to properly shoot the HCP test; and were passed. My friend and his wife took the HCP course. She couldn’t pass the shooting test using a quality revolver. They let her come back and shoot it again. She used a scoped .22 handgun. However, people aren’t generally getting shot because the shooter missed. They are getting shot because someone is either careless or they intentionally shot someone. Our states training won’t stop that. Many of the shootings we see are by people that are trained and knew better. I refuse to believe that you have to go to a state mandated training class to be taught to not leave a loaded weapon laying around, or to clear a weapon before “playing” with it.

Dave a lot of adults don't realize you can't brandish a firearm...not to mention there are still some people that can't pass the 7yd shooting test (?!??!?) so for that reason yes I think a class is reasonable if you desire to carry in places not already legally allowed by the Castle Law(doctrine?).

Terrible news. I fear two things; wasps and tornados.

It’s crazy how localized weather can be. We’re just a couple of miles from there - and didn’t even really get heavy rain. Hope everyone made it through okay.

Thanks. Praying for all involved

Glad and happy for you, btq96r. I'm down Gallatin Rd, close to Briley Pkwy. We had a lot of rain later this morning after the tornado moved thru, but no damage I've been able to see yet. Going to walk up the street in a bit and see how the neighbors fared. The first photos from Germantown and Five Points areas are just emotionally devastating. Again glad you were so blessed.

There's no Constitutional right to drive, so the comparison only goes so far. But, I suspect that a lot of the people who make terrible drivers would make terrible armed, polite citizens. I think most people do an adequate (no, not good) job driving. I think most people would do an adequate job carrying. I've also seen folks risk the lives of everyone around them because they couldn't be bothered to know where they are, stay more than six feet off the bumper in front of you at 60 mph, read signs, maintain their equipment, be courteous, or remember that they're not, in fact, pro drivers in real-deal race cars. And sometimes, pretty rarely though, these are people driving commercial vehicles. (The professionals.) I don't think it'll be a bloodbath, quite the opposite. But I also am very aware that one inconsiderate moron can change the course of my family's life very drastically. There are limits on every Constitutional right, where one's exercise of that right begins to intrude on another's exercise of their rights. ("Fire" in a crowded theater, slander, and liable come to move.) I'm okay with the idea that the Second isn't any more absolute than the first. Heck, let's require 40 hours of high speed training for everyone who wants to carry. And have the government pay for it!

I understand all that. My use of CC was for the topic at hand... Constitutional Carry.

Appaloosa

Once again, let me state for the record that I do want this law to pass. I do think its a step in the right direction. My concern is not about "wild west" or "blood in the streets" scenarios. My concern is about untrained idiots walking around with guns. We all know that one guy who is an accident just waiting to happen. Personally I wouldn't care to be in line at the grocery store behind Grandma who's fumbling around in her purse totally unaware that her lipstick or ink pen has gotten stuck in the trigger guard of her gun. Or the moron who just can't stop fondling the gun in his pocket. Negligent discharges worry me a lot more than bad guys. You can't fix stupid and the large cities are drowning in it.

Probably not leaving TGO. Just headed up the road a little. I'm done with Nashville, and done working. Gonna make ammo and sawdust.

I’ve spent a fair amount of time in Kentucky. They have constitutional carry. Somehow I’ve so far managed to avoid the constant hail of gunfire this lack of control supposedly brings.

You are so right Pop Pop. The police cars may have Serve and Protect on them, but those guns they have are to keep their A$$es safe. If the deputy was sitting at the county courthouse with his car running it would take him a minimum of 30 minutes to get to my house. A .40 cal bullet travels about 1100 feet per second. You do the math. They may come to my house after the fact and draw a chalkline around my body and put police keep out tape around the scene, but they can't protect me and my family unless they plan on living with us 24/7. It is each of our duty to protect our Castle.

Gotta love the mag.....

If your just target shooting get some Easton 2013 with 5" feathers cut to your length. Nice inexpensive arrow, pretty durable. Full Metal Jackets are a great arrow, I use them for hunting, pricey. You can go on Easton's web site they have a nice arrow selector setup, just plug your numbers in, draw length, lbs pull intended use etc. Gives you good recommendations.