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I'm all for using simple, straightforward vocabulary in the national dialogue on this issue. However, the left's euphemistic terms are merely a symptom of a more fundamental problem. The reason that I don't engage folks on the left anymore in firearms conversations is their blatant unwillingness to adhere to logic. I'm talking about logic in the classical sense - causation, in particular. Example: As Wayne LaPierre said, "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." The efforts of the left to disarm the American people are despicable on general principle (that's a different discussion) - but worse than that, they're not logical. When someone can show me how a law prohibiting me from having the means to defend myself can magically shut down the central nervous system of a determined attacker, then I'll be willing to talk to the left. When you get down to the core of the leftist position, it simply does not make sense. Consequently the left must intentionally avoid engaging in direct, logical debate. "Code-speak" is one technique they use to hide the logical fallacies of their platform. Another is the art of emotion-based arguments.

Or, teachers could carry concealed using the same holsters that millions of other gun owners use every day with no problem. In fact, I will absolutely guarantee you that there are some teachers carrying concealed in schools at this very instant. Concealed means concealed, and I am surprised by the number of people who have trouble understanding that.

Neither. There have always been men like him who seek power, and there will always be men like him who seek power. They are the men who are the reason why we jealously guard our right to keep arms.

I first wrote this as a response in the thread about Remington filing for bankruptcy but, realizing it went far afield from the topic, I decided to start a new thread. I realize that Remington's woes haven't come solely from a slump in sales but that bankruptcy combined with the current zeitgeist have me thinking how firearms companies - and the firearms community, in general - might need to weather the storm that is potentially coming. So these are my thoughts: Personally, I think that the future for Remington (and Marlin - and Winchester, too) may well lie in the past. Right now there is a lot of heat being dumped on semiauto firearms and especially on AR15 type rifles. I also believe that there is also a wave of nostalgia that is getting ready to break over the country that is going to impact the wants and buying habits even of individuals who weren't around when the 'nostalgia' items were more popular in the first place. Heck, I read an article the other day that was talking about how cassette tapes are making a bit of a comeback and have also read that board games seem to be gaining popularity as a means to socialize - I have even noticed that several of the microbreweries around Knoxville have a stack of board games in one corner or another that people can take out and play while they hang out and drink beer. I believe that firearms companies could somewhat take advantage of such trends. I think there are a lot of folks who aren't specifically anti but who also aren't specifically firearms enthusiasts who could be reached if these long standing companies (or at least the legacy companies that have the rights to use the branding) put a little less emphasis on building yet another line of plastic fantastic bottom feeders that look the same as every other pistol or rifle of the type and focus a little more on updated versions of more 'traditional' firearms - with said updates including making them affordable. These companies still make lever action rifles and Marlin apparently pushed a few new ones at SHOT show this year. The problem is that most of those new Marlins looked, to me, to be geared toward people who are already gun collectors and enthusiasts with prices that will likely reflect the same. Likewise, things like double barrelled shotguns still exist but to my knowledge no American company still makes a good side by side double with a 'value' price like the old Stevens doubles, etc. Instead, the American made doubles tend to be high dollar models geared toward avid bird hunters or skeet shooters, etc. Heck, even dumbass Joe Biden 'endorsed' the idea of having a double barrel shotgun for home defense (even if his comment encouraging people to just shoot into the darkness without being sure of their target was stupid and irresponsible.) The same thing seems to be happening with revolvers. Sure, there are wheel guns like the EAA Windicator and the Rossi and some Taurus models but I can't think of any revolvers on the new gun market with a name like Remington, Smith and Wesson, etc. that are regular, full sized revolvers with an affordable (as in budget/value line) price tag made by an American company. I know that Colt has brought back/is bringing back some version of the old Detective Special. I think that they should follow that up by bringing back the last iteration (late '70s) of the Police Positive. Likewise, maybe S&W should gear up some of the old tooling (if they still have it and can find it) and start making the Model 10 in .38 Special, again. Remington could also get into the game. Let's face it, most people don't need an AR15 with a 30 round mag or a semiauto pistol with a 15 round magazine to defend themselves and their homes. Do I support efforts to ban or limit the availability of such firearms and/or magazines? Do I think we should just roll over and allow such firearms to be taken? Hell no! But for the industry to survive the current, growing perception of such firearms among the general public - and to still manage to sell firearms to said general public - putting the majority of their eggs in the 'high speed, low drag' basket may not be the best approach. Like it or not, those of us who are interested in maintaining and even growing our firearms rights as well as the companies which manufacture firearms are going to have to find a way to market and sell firearms to Millennials and their children. I also believe that as life gets more and more hectic and fast paced for these individuals they will increasingly yearn for a 'simpler time' - probably a 'simpler time' that never really even existed, as is often the case with nostalgia - and which they weren't around to experience first hand. Of course, maybe these are just my thoughts because I, personally, prefer revolvers, levers and pumps to semiautos and even with semiautos I prefer some steel and maybe some wood (although I own some semiautos, too - and even a couple of 'plastic' ones) but I really think that the way forward for firearms companies and for the continued strength of gun rights lies with getting people on board who might never dream of owning an AR or a Glock but who might not hesitate to buy a lever gun like Grandpa used or a revolver like Grandma kept next to her bed at night. Get those people 'into the fold', so to speak by increasing the choices and availability of such firearms as well as extolling their utility and virtues and - whether or not they go on to purchase more 'modern' type firearms - I believe that they will be less likely to support the loss of the right to keep and bear arms. Just something to think about.

This is why the pro-gun movement is doomed. We cannot even agree to allow teachers to voluntarily carry guns, for Chrissake! We should all get behind allowing teachers to be armed. Period. I cannot believe that so many pro-gun advocates are SCARED TO DEATH OF SOMEONE ELSE CARRYING A GUN! Sure, it's okay if you carry a gun in a school.... it's your right, but you don't want teachers to carry in schools. Don't you see the hypocrisy in that position?

Not bad. I’m currently involved in a debate with a bunch of anti-gun folks. I’m just trying to get them to drop the code speak. Be honest about what you want. I am. Even if we will never see eye to eye, we can at least understand where the other is really coming from because the code words mean different things to them and us.

Got my new TGO cap today. Looks good in the camo color.

For you Police Academy fans

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I disagree. Black and tactical is where the money from a lot of folks who are already 'in' to firearms is whether it is their first purchase or their fiftieth. There are likely some folks who are new to guns who gravitate in that direction, as well. However, I still say that there is a very large, untapped market for blued steel and wood and that such a market is about to grow as societal attitudes potentially prevent growth and possibly even result in some losses in the black and tactical market segment. Doesn't have to be fine walnut - think Marlin's Glenfield line and others where the furniture is simply 'hardwood'. Doesn't even have to be high-end bluing. If Taurus and Rossi can build and sell revolvers and rifles in the modern market for, in some cases, a few hundred dollars less than the competition then why can't S&W, Remington, etc.? One of the least expensive firearms on the market - the Heritage Rough Rider revolver - has wood grips. Again, think along the lines of 'field grade' or 'utility grade' firearms. I am not talking about rarified safe queens to sell to collectors or museum quality heirloom pieces with gorgeous walnut and beautiful, old Colt style bluing. I am talking about good, usable firearms to sell to the non-enthusiast but non-anti new husband/father (or new wife/mother) who wants something behind the closet door or next to the bed for protecting his/her family in an environment where those same folks are, at least for a little while, are possibly not going to be looking at all favorably upon 'scary' black and tactical firearms. That is why I specifically referred to the Model 10, the Police Positive and the like. To be completely honest, I wouldn't mind the opportunity to buy a couple of those 'utility' grade firearms, myself. Further, money could be made in the aftermarket as some buyers may decide that they want to upgrade the wood, etc. to make their gun their 'own'. I mean, folks these days do seem love to accessorize, customize and personalize just about everything.

Tolerance? Turn the other cheek, be the better person, don't stoop to their level, and all that sort of stuff. Otherwise, I don't disagree. Cell phone use while driving, opiates, mental illness, school security, child abuse, ... all these are much larger societal issues that desperately need to be addressed. Unfortunately those aren't easily objectified in the form of scary black rifles. Addressing the real issues requires addressing the people involved, and that's even scarier than the black rifles.

Why do we use the title teacher every time were refer to an educator of a school as they are different from any other person like a cashier at a drive in market. They are people just like I am a person. How about we start looking at them as people that value and appreciate life as much as anyone else. That way it might be easier to think of them as an armed person in school educating our children while protecting them at the same time. I have heard people say that they don't think a teacher could or is capable of shooting a bad guy that is there to harm not only children but her/him also. I am sorry but that does not make sense. A teacher that has been trained to handle a firearm properly and is trained on an active shooter scenerio until they are comfortable with what they could and would do would be more than capable of not only proecting our children but protecting themselves also. Look at all of the teachers/principals/coaches that had no weapons that put their lives on the line to protect the children and died for it. Did they have to die??? No but they did because they are in a GUN FREE ZONE that prevents them from having a gun but had no effects at all on the active shooter!!!! During the time I served in the military I got shot at and also got shot yet every time I heard gun fire I ran towards it and not away from it. That is what a truly trained person does. It was just proven last week when the SRO officer ran towards the gun fire and a good guy with a gun killed a bad guy with a gun and many lives were saved by the SRO's actions. This is what is needed in our school system if we are going to end the active shooter in schools. This cannot be voluntary. If you are not willing to step ad be trained you need to be replaced because you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. More well trained teachers, coaches, Principals. Janitors and custodians, grounds keepers and SRO's trained to run towards gun fired and not away from it. They keep talking about spending money to make schools safer, Spend it training school personnel on gun safety and active shooter situations cause locking doors and hiding in closets does not stop bad guy bullets. A good guy with a gun does...............JMHO

I for one am tired of being tolerant, seriously, why in the hell do we, who've done nothing wrong, need to tolerate those that do not tolerate us? If they want to talk about how to make schools safer, I am right there at the table, if they want to talk about how to best disarm us, well then they can go to hell. I am also getting tired of hearing all this tolerance talk from our side, I really am. You don't see the left breaking from the ranks, why are we? Many gun owners seem more than happy to work with them on how best to appease them, when all they want is for us to be disarmed, pure and simple. As I've said before, I am sorry these events happen, but it's such a statistical abnormality that it is not worth all this "repeal the 2nd Amendment" angst coming from the left. If they were serious about keeping the kids safe, they would be pushing for more cell phone control instead of gun control since distracted driving kills more kids than guns do.

Still in planning...we were looking for suggestions and gauging interest. Seriously considering Prag's suggestion about a replay of my block from Tac Con.

It's easy for anti-gun protesters to rally because they're rallying for change. "We want the status quo... we want the status quo!" just doesn't have much appeal. If we wanted to be proactive, we need to rally FOR CHANGE, not to just maintain the 200+ year status quo. Three things jump out at me when I look at school shootings. Two of those can be addressed with change. The first is allowing teachers to voluntarily be trained and carry. They don't have to be Quick Draw McGraw holsters. Teachers could carry in biometric holsters that require a fingerprint scan to open. They're not quick, but they do exist as gun cases. We could demand that these holster-cases be made available to teachers and pressure schools to allow teachers to carry. Second is to provide father figures for young boys. I was shocked to recently learn that nearly 100% of school shooters came from single-parent homes. Listen to this video. The final problem is mental health. It's a much more difficult problem to address. I think a more productive rallying-cry would be around the first two issues.

This is where I think we are at with slide mounted red dots. I look forward to when we are there though.

https://youtu.be/fYcweKLnOzc Thanks for the reminder.

A lot of handgun makers have been doing just that for several years now. Most all of them have fairly plain, reasonably priced offerings on the market. Many of which are aimed specifically at first time buyers. But no, they really ain't like they used to be. Modern manufacturing techniques, modern materials and lawyers have put an end to any hope of going back to what used to be. Sorry, but that just ain't gonna happen. While there are several very good, but economy priced bolt actions available, most have composite black stocks. Decent wood seems to be a thing of the past except on the higher end rifles. I consider a lever gun with tactical, plastic furniture to be an abomination. Unfortunately, black and tactical is where the money is these days. I'm afraid the days of shiny blue steel and fine walnut are long gone. The gun companies just can't afford to bring those back.

I recommend staying away from Diamond Cargo, I have a custom 7x16 from them and they cut more corners than most.

I really don't think they committed fraud here. I still think either you purchased something and didn't realize that you had checked a box that made a $5.00 donation to the FPC, or you inadvertently made a donation to them when you visited their site. Payment Card Industry (PCI) regulations are insanely strict and not many places keep payer card information on file as a result of that and anyone with any scruples at all knows better than to try to debit someone if that someone didn't give them permission first. These guys are lawyers, too, so they should be very well versed in the law and the consequences of doing something underhanded. I have seen absolutely zero reference to anyone else having this problem with FPC despite searching for it in earnest yesterday. If you think they did this unscrupulously, please contact them directly and ask them to provide more detail on when/where your card was charged for the donation. Let us know how that goes, please.

Definitely worth the trip to see in person. Took the family up after Christmas last year and saw a herd of about 30. Beautiful area too.

I could use a couple thousand 9mm Luger if the price is right. You'll have to mail them to me cause I live about 60 miles South of Knoxville. Ray

You are more than just a little correct. I just might fall into the extreme far right side, I believe any thing after 1800 or so written to infringe on the 2nd is wrong. That is just me.

All of those have value to reloaders. Just about anything you find that is centerfire you’ll find someone that reloads it.

What Stevens is suggesting is exactly how the Constitution allows us to amend it, a process which has happened multiple times. We for sure don't agree with it, but we can't deny that it's the process by which we've consented to being governed. Also, it's the one permissible avenue I've seen for what gun control advocates actually want. Stevens just has the candor to voice it aloud where the rest dance around it as some kind of unmentionable...preferring to just ignore the laws applications. As someone who has taken up arms in service to the country, I'd say you're quite wrong. I couldn't even imagine who the enemy of the United States would be in your scenario, besides the mythical "them" or "the left", but voicing an opinion in a democracy is as opposite to treason as I can imagine.

One relic commenting on another supposed relic, I suppose. I will acknowledge his right to say such a thing. Respect it? Never. It flies in the face of everyone who has taken arms, living and dead, in service to this country. That a former member of SCOTUS should say such a thing, IMO, falls under the "aid and comfort" clause of U. S. Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115, paragraph 2381. SWC

I can at least respect the honesty of his position.

It is because they want it to look like we are going to loose our gun rights. It creates fear within the gun community and it is that fear that generates income for them. I can guarantee they are sending out mailers demanding even more money to fight. They have plenty of money on hand to put up a strong fight but they refuse to do it so it looks like we are going to loose our gun rights. And the liberals do have something right, the NRA throws a lot of money at our representatives in Washington. Why would those in office not also benefit from this turmoil, they themselves have a hand in. I mean if the representatives we elected talk of restricting gun rights in comes the NRA to throw money at them. Perhaps it is time to start following the money and embarrassing those in power who take NRA money but do nothing to help gun owners. What are all these A+ NRA rated legislators doing for gun owners? We have a super majority and our gun rights are being stripped away faster than ever before. Remind me again how our representatives are representing those who elected them. They are only representing their own interests.

Seems like they could have the convention somewhere nearby headquarters in Virginia and supply a steady stream of buses down to the mall. Ask vendors to support water stations / hot dog tents / whatever in addition to their booth at the show. Provide firearm literacy, education, talk with some representatives. Plus, you’d get to see some memorials to boot...

So, why is this something only the anti-gun crowd can do? The NRA's IRS Form 990 filed last September showed $36 million on hand after expenses. What's stopping them from doing the same thing and getting pro-gun people walking the streets of DC and in swing states with adequate funding to support? They manage to get an annual convention/trade show organized year after year, so you can't say they don't have the needed resources.

I did the survey also. I've been on a mission the last several months making calls, sending emails, letters and faxes. Calling out friends to do the same and report in when they had done it. I fell down a flight of stairs and destroyed my ankle so I will not be able to attend. Still recovering.

Everyone straighten up and behave Tiffany’s coming....... Just kidding . Tiffany was the hardest working woman in the tactical world last week and she deserves all the thanks in the world for making the Tac Con run smoothly. She’s my logistical hero.

Tac Con matchmaking! Yay! [emoji3] And yes, there is indeed photographic evidence of said muzzle punch... Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I’m not gonna lie..... I’m absolutely guilty as charged.... in fact I muzzle punched him with my Glock ....it just happened to be a non firing 17R to see if I could knock it out of battery as a demo showing why you don’t want to thrust the gun into your opponent when in a clinch. In all seriousness though, Lee was a HUGE help by risking life and limb as a safety officer working the line during my block of instruction on Sunday morning at the Rangemaster Tactical Conference at DARC (Direct Action Resource Center) in Little Rock Arkansas. I taught a block on close quarters shooting called Point Blank Pistol Skills that involved a lot of fast close shooting much of which was done while in physical contact with the plastic TAC MAN targets we used. I can’t thank him enough for volunteering to come over and help make sure we had plenty of experienced safety officers watching the line. And in his own right Lee is a talented multi time instructor at Tac Con doing blocks this year in Social Levergun and a block called Defensive Pistol Skills Builder . So if you get a chance to catch a class with him take it ! Thanks again Lee, hopefully we’ll get a chance to work together again some time !

Speaking of Fenix batteries. Ordered a couple of these. Cool stuff... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071HDP5NZ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That was bad. This is better. You're welcome.

I went hunting bear once, ranger told me I had to wear clothes!