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Hello, Mike’s wife Lisa here. As I go through and close out and memorize as many accounts as he had, it’s really lovely to see all the condolences here. He LOVED his guns and the community he found here and on other forums. Thank you for all your kind words. He was a great husband, father, friend and Tattooer. He’s so incredibly loved and missed.

Got a quick update from Doug yesterday. Hopefully he’ll be coming home on Thursday.

Setup fees have been paid to the vendor (Queensboro) and they will be setting up the store for us over the next couple of days. In order to keep it simple we'll have one store that provides goods for both TGO and for Shooters Nation. We will start off with just TGO but the other will come later. The way this works is that they allow me to build up a catalog of things that you folks can have them embroider our logo on and they will handle every part of it all the way down to shipping it to you. It can take a week or two to get things shipped, but you'll end up with something of good quality that you are proud to wear. They provided this demo link to show me how one organization set up a store that sells merchandise with various logo options, similar to how we would with TGO and Shooters Nation: https://intrudersnavy.qbstores.com/ A friend of mine uses Queensboro for shirts, hats, etc. for his forum catering to aircraft owners, and Queensboro has very good customer feedback on Google and other sites. You may have even seen them advertising on TV recently too.

First of let me Thank each and every one of you for your prayers and best wishes. I got to come home this evening instead of tomorrow. I told the doctor I did "NOT" want to be in the hospital on my birthday so he cut me some slack and got me home 1 day early. Still weak and experiencing some aches and pains but I think the worst of it is behind me. I will tell ya'll about my quitting smoking and about the complications doctors had to deal with tomorrow after I get a good nights sleep and hope I get to rest some. Bersaguy

I hurt for these victims and their families. I often think that in trying to protect our children and keep them safe as much as we do these days, in some ways we've done them a disservice. The bully plays an important place in a child's development - and when we step in to deal with it as adults, we might just be depriving our children - and the bullies of important lessons. Life isn't fair. It's full of people who will abuse their power to pick on the weak. It's important to learn the skill of standing up - that it has consequences, and you might get hurt - but it's worth it. It's also important to let bullies try it out - and maybe some of them will figure out that it doesn't feel good in the long run. Maybe some of them will get hit in the nose. Regardless, most bullies historically have learned that there's always someone stronger than you. But, we've screwed this up - we've tried to keep our kids from experiencing any discomfort - and don't let them work through things on their own. We shouldn't be surprised that we see escalations. As a forensic investigator - online cyberbullying definitely adds a different component - that often amplifies the problem. There's not really a solution here other than to be aware of your child's use of technology and a lot of conversations about these hard topics. By the time they're in middle school it's too late.

Here is my personal belief about the root cause of this: Bullying has been a thing for as long as there has been diversity in the human gene pool. Person One has always felt that it was fine to subjugate Person Two because Person One viewed themselves as being the stronger, more popular, smarter, wealthier, powerful, valuable or otherwise more advantaged than Person Two, or just because Person Two was different in some way and Person One was able to think of them as being "less than". Only two forces have ever kept that in check: Morals and ethics based in a belief of Right and Wrong, typically rooted in and codified in a religious belief system. The threat of repercussion, typically dealt out by an authority figure. I believe that we have come to a point in society where item #1 (Morals and Ethics based in a belief of Right and Wrong, especially rooted in a religious belief system) are on the decline and where people who hold to those values either already are in the minority or are trending towards being the minority very soon. I also believe that item #2 (the fear of repercussion from the Law or an authority figure) is just as rapidly eroding. There is very little respect for the Law these days, or for Law Officers or for Teachers or Parents or any other authority figure. Lacking the moral compass of item #1 and the fear of repercussion of item #2, a person can be expected to have no boundaries for what behavior they feel is acceptable. And consequently we have bullies who will bully without remorse and we have victims of bullying who will unpredictably resort to any possible form of retaliation to cease the bullying and exact revenge upon the bully. None of this justifies anything. It's just a description of the hand basket we're all in as we slip and slide down the slope toward Hell and anarchy. Parents, Adults... teach your kids that life isn't fair. Teach them that it sucks, that there are winners and losers and you can't always be the former. More importantly, teach them how to be a loser with dignity and a winner with compassion. Teach them that people can be cruel but that you don't have to let their cruelty define you, and that nothing excuses you to be a murdering asshole. Raise children with tough skin but sensitive hearts and equip them with a moral compass. Show them how to deal with anger productively.

I'm all for standing up to bullies. It worked for decades. I'm just pointing out that thanks to zero tolerance policies you are just as likely to end up in a world of trouble as the bully. My friend was a SRO at a local elementary school and told me about taking kids that young to jail for fighting. It's ridiculous.

I hit some bullies in the face when I was young. I got the same beating as them from the teacher types, because it always turned into a fight (for some reason). I guess you would probably get expelled these days. Good thing I'm old. I would do it again. Best medicine for a bully is the sight of his own blood.

Sorry, but being bullied does not give him any excuse for something like this. I can see punching out one doing the bullying, but shooting up the school is not any way to go about fixing anything. As I recall, there has always been some sort of bullying going on in school, but you just didn't have this "everyone is a winner" generation then, so they had to either suck it up or confront their bullies. We as a society have become too soft, and get our feeling hurt way too easily.

That’s not a high bar at all. In N Out is soul crushing in its mediocrity. Pure garbage.

But why risk it. If you are arrested I can guarantee you will be out thousands of dollars in legal fees, even if it goes in your favor. Anyone going in front of a judge without a lawyer standing next to them will likely have a very bad day. I know I wouldn't go in front of a judge for anything without having an attorney present, especially if I was accused of breaking a law. Even if you are in the clear your arrest will always show up in a background unless you pay thousands to have it expunged. Another thing, any cop that shows up will not let you try to convince them the sign is wrong if they believe you have broken the law. Most cops will not know what the correct language of the sign so to them you will have violated the law by walking past the sign. Now a lot of cops will probably just tell you to leave but all it takes is one and you will be hauled away in handcuff, starting your long expensive process of proving the sign was wrong and that you were in the right for carrying past a sign whose intent is quite clear. To a jury of 12 you will be painted as a renegade gun owner who willingly violated the intent of the law despite being in compliance with the letter of the law. Best case scenario you will be out thousands, worst case you will be out your freedom and when you get out of jail you will not be the same person as when you went in. My freedom is not worth the risk of walking past any posting and my money is more valuable than to give it to someone who doesn't allow me to protect myself.

A lot of you know @bersaguy. He’s had some incidents over the last week that are going to require surgical intervention tomorrow. I got to go by and see him this afternoon. He’s in great spirits, but the triple bypass surgery he’s having tomorrow afternoon is serious. He could use your prayers over the coming days. I’ll update as soon as I hear tomorrow, but in the meantime, keep him in your thoughts.

I wasn't too interested in purchasing something proprietary from FA anyways, was really just interested in what loophole they found and seeing if it could be used for individual builds. I am not buying an inaccurate non-rifled barrel and/or proprietary ammo, so will be going with an adjustable arm brace for my next build.

Meant to add, that a rifled shotgun slug from a smooth barrel also operates under this "knuckleball" technique too (and no, the "fins" on the slug don't impart any significant degree of spin). And though it's certainly not precise by any means, can be relatively effective and predictable at the 100 yard distance. But here you've got the dynamics of the heavy fore end weight of the slug combined with the hollowed out rear affecting the physics too. Which is all to say, dunno, but the whole idea just to get a "legal SBR" by sacrificing the accuracy of a rifled barrel seems rather absurd really, especially since an AR pistol with rifled bore outshines it by far, and can be used (again confirmed via ATF) by stabilizing from the shoulder with a brace same as with a stock. (As long as you didn't intend to do that from the gitgo, and all that, eh? ) - OS

Despite the video's attempt to make this into something it's not, the most likely explanation is this event was some type of supernova explosion, perhaps one not seen before. Every time astrophysicists have discovered a different category of nova, it has started out like this, with a newer observation of an object which has some weird characteristics not found in other nova explosions. Of course this same process occurs with the discoveries of other types of celestial objects, but this one has too many similarities to more conventional supernovas to ignore. Current cosmological theories allow for types of supernovas that are extremely rare, and probably some which have not yet been observed, this may well turn out to be one of them. There's a lot of interest in this object, and several competing theories as to it's origin, most of which have been offered by very intelligent scientists with good credentials. This guy isn't one of those, his youtube channel is after all devoted to UFO's, aliens, etc. You can find lots of sources of information on this object that are way better informed than his, you will have to search a long time to find even a few worse ...

Agreed - it is absolutely ridiculous.

I remember a time when kids settled things behind the dugout at recess, and if they got caught settling it, then their butts got paddled by the principal.. And guess what, everyone went on with their lives.. And the two kids "settled it" after school in the alley behind billy's house.. And everyone went on with their lives... The problem is kids aren't being allowed to be freaking KIDS anymore...

I read it, and again I say we have become too soft as a society. So he was being picked on, big deal, it is not something you are going to stop, no matter how many commercials, t-shirts or posters you put up. Kids will pick on each other, always have and always will, but us actually doing all this protecting and arresting is IMO detrimental in the long run. With my kids, I always told them to defend themselves if the teacher didn't intervene or if the intervention didn't work. Yes, I've had to see the teacher a couple of times, and I told them the same thing, my kids will defend themselves at all times.

I thought I made it pretty clear I wasn't justifying his actions. What I'm saying is that if you have a group of people constantly picking on the fat kid year after year don't be surprised if he comes in with dad's Glock. Parents, teachers and the administration all have a responsibility to end bullying. I watched the same kids get picked on all through high school by the same group of assholes. It had nothing to do with kids being "too soft". The real cowards are the ones that felt the need to pick on those that they knew would not stand up to them. There is nothing courageous about that. You're confusing too very different issues here. Also, keep in mind that in 2018 standing up to bullies means you will be in just as much trouble as the bully. Issues can't be resolved with a fist fight after school. Now you have kids getting arrested for fighting accompanied by a permanent record and legal fees. Times have changed. I have read accounts of someone getting sucker punched and then once they fight back they are both arrested. That is the world we live in now.

I think people think because I said he maybe was " bullied".. that this is an excuse... by no means it is NOT.. Just wanted to make myself clear here. He looks overweight.. a bit nerdy maybe.. most of often kids in his skin get bullied.. that was my observation from afar. That`s all.. carry on !

Nothing excuses this behavior! It is a failure of all involved that someone gets that close to the edge and no one steps up to assist. What a society we have become!

Sorry, He does not need to sit in prison for the rest of his life. It is very clear beyond doubt he is guilty of a horrific crime. Take him out back and shoot him! That is part of the problem with these events that they are sent to prison for life. That is no longer the deterrent it used to be. Time to take away the privileges in jail and make it a bad place to go again! Not to mention I am tired of paying to keep people in prison for life that have no chance of ever returning to society.

Maybe it's the new way to shoot around corners.

I'm not defending what the kid did but if he was in fact picked on, the bullies share some of the blame. As do the parents if they did nothing to stop it. There is no place for it in 2018 as we have seen time and time again what happens.

I'm with you now CZ9MM After at least 15 years of being away from shooting highpower rifle my MOA calculating has become a little fuzzy so I just went back for a little refresher. MOA is something that confuses a lot of shooters and even when I understand it I get myself confused. Here is something I found from Brownells to help others visualize MOA. Rounding MOA 1 MOA @ 100 yards = 1 inch 1 MOA @ 200 Yards = 2 inch 1 MOA @ 300 yards = 3 inch 1 MOA @ 400 Yards = 4 inch 1 MOA @ 500 yards = 5 inch 1 MOA @ 600 Yards = 6 inch 1 MOA @ 700 yards = 7 inch 1 MOA @ 800 Yards = 8 inch 1 MOA @ 900 Yards = 9 inch 1 MOA @ 1000 Yards = 10 inch Minute of Angle as it applies to group size and drop MOA is used to measure group sizes. A 1 inch group @ 100 yards is referred to as a 1 MOA group. A 2 inch group @ 100 yards is a 2 MOA group. Not sure it was worth getting all worked up over the actual MOA of the less than favorable group size of this not a shotgun / not a rifle gimmick firearm but it happens.

Being a non-stabilized round, I’m not sure we can assume that. A 4” group at 50 yards is fine for CQB accuracy, but that bullet is unstable enough by 50 yards that the group could potentially be much larger at 100 yards. Somebody correct me if my thinking is off.

In theory, yeah. In practice probably nearer 12-16" Interest......lost. I can do better than that with my cheap, rattly 1911.

My handgun is to fight my way to my rifle. When I get to it I would like it to be a rifle caliber.

Spoil sport. Don’t be bringing your “logic” into my fantasies...

Seems like an expensive way to try to save $200. Truth of the matter is this is a SHOT show gimmick to get some free press and generate some traffic to their booth. The range day articles even indicate as much when they talk about production models will be 300BLK but range day models being 5.56 "to save on ammo costs."

No way I'm putting my suppressor on a rifle that's throwing a non stabilized round... While I get the fact that practical effects on accuracy might be mitigated at CQB distances, unfortunately bullets rarely stop there. This seems like an easy way to break the "know your target and what's beyond it" rule in spirit.

If startup $ is a problem (when is it not?) I'm good for $50. email or pmail me and I will zip out Priority Mail with the cash within. Or if TGO has a PayPal set up, I can be good for that too. I might also suggest a logo patch, if one isn't already in the works. In regular color, desert, woodland, and night would be additional suggestions if the market will bear it. SWC a/k/a KI7CIL

Bearcats are the dandiest little .22 pistols ever. Never held the Shopkeeper version but I absolutely love my regular one. They really are just pure fun. Not sure what the current prices are and that seems a bit high but I would have that over a Single Seven any day.

I've been a mind my own business and you mind yours guy my whole life. I have my beliefs and you have yours...fine....just don't make a big damn deal cause I don't share yours. The older I get the easier it it for me. Now I don't give a hoot what you think and don't really have the time to be bothered caring what anyone else thinks about most topics. Life is too short and getting shorter by the minute. My family...especially the grandkids ....I seem to always have time for. The questions they have still give me a bit of hope for the future.

IMO, many need Jesus Christ working on their hearts and minds. Like it or not, "Real Religion," taken to heart," makes one more tolerant of others.

I also do not use any of it but I will still fight for OUR rights. If we do not fight together they will take all our rights slowly over time.

Gents, please pay attention to your health. This is not a joking matter. I survived a heart attack two years ago come May. Did not seem to be all that bad of symptoms so I put off going to doctor. Bad idea! I wish Doug the best and I am thankful that doctors can do such great work. Get a yearly checkup at least. I will not try to give folks the live better, eat right, exercise speech as I do not live that myself. Just pay attention to your body though. Prayers for Doug and if he needs anything please advise us.

Withdrawing

From what I’ve read lately on “junk silver” ( pre 1965 dimes, quarters, half dollars), is that it is a really good buy. Seems it was in very high demand around Y2K. Still is in moderate demand due to they only made so many, albeit ALOT, and more and more is melted down every year for industrial/commercial uses. I also believe the smaller denominations will be best for trading in bad times. Another thing to think about regarding the value of silver. Using milk for reference. In 2017, a gallon of milk cost $3.31. A silver quarter is worth $3.06 and a silver dime is worth $1.22 for a total of $4.28. 20 years ago in 1997, a gallon of milk cost $2.67. A silver quarter was worth $2.15 and a dime worth $0.45 for a total of $2.60. I would have used gasoline but it’s value isn’t keeping pace with inflation and would be an inaccurate comparison. The value of silver outpaces inflation. If you put a $5 bill and a silver quarter and dime in your safe right now, in 20 years, the silver will buy you a gallon of milk, the paper bill won’t. I won’t go as far as to say that silver or any precious metal is a good investment but it is a very good way IMO, to store wealth, physically, so that it has the same or more economic value in the future. References: https:http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-1964-Silver-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1932-1964-Silver-Washington-Quarter-Value.html //data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet Next to last paragraph in the pdf for 1997 silver price, then calculate for both quarters and dimes.

Disclaimer: I probably don't know what I'm talking about! I don't own any large quantity of silver, and I ensured I had plenty of "Beans, Bullets, and Bandaids" (and skill development/training) before I put any silver back. The majority of junk silver (pre-64) coins I purchased was during a dip back in 2008-2009 when silver dropped to around $10.00/oz. I, and a couple of buds, picked up rolls of dimes and quarters off of E-Bay at this price, no or minimal shipping cost. I would not recommended that in this day and age. We were fortunate. Silver has been pretty steady around $15.00-$17.00/oz for several years now. I view it as a means to store value (wealth) only...not as a means of investment. Just my thought processes...see Disclaimer above. I totally agree with what's been mentioned regarding SHTF vs TEOWAWKI. Money (an item agreed upon as a means of exchange) would most likely only have value in a relatively stable economy. This is where I see my junk sliver having value in a worse case scenario. The ability to provide Food, Water, Shelter, and Security obviously come first in the context of this thread direction. I totally agree and the majority of my efforts and learning, reading, training are and have been along those lines. It's a journey, not a destination imho. Another thought...especially with the digital age, plastic "money", and the "online" economy. Not that many people even know silver coins exist, much less the value of silver. They may well only see a dime as a dime. I think the majority of trade, use of silver in a worst case scenario would be between individuals that share this group's common knowledge (and groups or individuals like this/us). I could be wrong, but it's something I would urge all to consider. At least don't be overly surprised in the event. I still pick up a few silver rounds each year...not many, but the past few years I've used GainesvilleCoins dot com and JM Bullion. The do have sales or specials at times. Murgatroy makes some excellent points above. This is not a Seller's Market as it relates to guns and ammo...but we are in the middle of one of the most incredible opportunities I've seen in many, many years to purchase self defense related items to fill in the holes in your stores. It's a great period for training and educational opportunities as well. TGO David's thread on 2018 goals has quite a few intelligent suggestions! imo following this thread. Staying on the journey.

If they make a kit to use large Glock mags (.45ACP, 10mm) or chamber it in 357SIG, I will be all over it. I already have the 9mm "pistol" angle covered with my MPX.

If they offer it in 357 sig (or dare I hope 10mm) I would buy one for all of our vehicles.

The wait is finally over! One down, ten more submissions to go. Dead Air Wolverine PBS-1 Form 4 Trust - 1 RP F4 Submitted - 11/9/16 F4 Pending - 11/28/16 F4 Approved - 12/14/17 Tax Stamp Mailed - 12/19/17 Tax Stamp Received - 12/27/17

Parts finally starting to trickle in. . . It's been a fun week! [emoji16]

That might just be the greatest interwebz post of all time.

Well now that we've all acknowledged our sensitivity, I'm going to wait a few months and give everyone a very important lesson on sensitivity. I'm going to go through the whole month of August without taking a bath, and then come visit every one of you. Just trying to make the sacrifice and do my part to contribute to the sensitivity training. That way, when this subject of being offended comes up again, I can refer everyone back to this great learning experience that I have contributed for the greater good. After I get out of the hospital of course.

Couldn't resist. - OS