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Never give an inch. I have a bump stock and I hate it but that doesn't mean I am willing to sell out everyone who does like it. I think revolvers are useless, I say we ban them as well because they serve to legitimate purpose for ME. Matter of fact, I don't particularly care for ARs any longer so I say lets get rid of them as well because of MY views. I say ban everything except those items I have sitting in MY safe. Sounds pretty insane but that is EXACTLY what everyone who is not against banning the bumpfire stock is doing. I have a question for those of you who are willing to let the bumpstock get banned. Are you OK with a ban on scopes, ammunition, magazines or Magpul furniture? If not then you are a hypocrite. I refuse to sell out my fellow gun owners. If it takes banning something to get national reciprocity I don't want reciprocity. I am unwilling to negotiate with a government that refuses to abide by the terms of the deal after it has been struck.

Everyone here does realize that hidden away in any BFS ban will be a lot more restrictions. No way in the world will they ONLY ban bump fire stocks. Especially with the NRA calling for them to be banned. Make no mistake when the NRA calls for a review, they are trying to compromise to get some of the heat off of them. Right now the Dems are on a warpath with the NRA and the NRA is backing down to them. Collectively, we are about to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I have said it before and will say it again. Gun owners have no problems throwing other gun owners under the bus so long as it does not affect them personally. I hear from my fellow gun owners about how this gun should be outlawed or that gun should be regulated. In the end we will be left with nothing.

Please don't take this as a personal jab at you. But, I do not understand the incredulity that everyone seems to be showing toward the fact that this guy lugged that much gear into the hotel by himself and that no one took notice of it. Seeing someone wheeling big luggage or containers into a hotel and to their room in Vegas is commonplace. There are so many concerts, conferences, trade shows and other performances in that town that you'd never be given a second thought even if you wheeled in something the size of an elephant. And as for how he got it to his room, he'd draw far less attention just by using the elevator and accepting help from the porters than he would if someone witnessed him lugging containers 32-flights up the stairs. Cleaning crews aren't going to pay a moment's notice to big containers or luggage in hotel rooms either. They generally don't WANT to know what you've got as it not knowing gives them plausible deniability. It's not called Sin City for nothing! And just because we haven't seen video footage of him carting this stuff through the hotel lobby and up the elevator, it doesn't mean the footage doesn't exist. You can't fart in Las Vegas without being on a camera. The only thing they have more of in Vegas than cameras is slot machines. Maybe! So that video exists, trust me.

Of course, it's a hypothetical conversation as it honestly doesn't matter if the government figures out how to revoke the 2A and go full on Bolshevik. As long as the internet still works, power still comes on, and the grocery store shelves still have food, things will carry on as they always have been. Freedom isn't important to the masses as long as life is still comfortable.

That’s not really my point. To a tyrannical government, a single bullet represents just as big a threat as thousands. A single .380ACP round fired from an FN M1910 is credited with starting WWI. The political class will always be as fearful of the single bullet as they are of many.

Here's an illustrated version of the Lawdog post that may be useful for y'all on the book of faces.

When you give away pieces of something pretty soon you don't have anything left. I will also say the NRA is quick to bargain with things that really don't belong to them in the first place. People will just go full outlaw and jig drill them full auto. When a determined individual decides to end his life after a shooting spree or running a truck into a crowd there is not much that can be done about it.

If it ever comes to standing up to a truly tyrannical government, a single shot handi-rifle would be every bit as dangerous as your AR.

First of all I have no use for bump stocks. Never have and never will. That being said please don't parlay my rights. To be honest I've kinda had it with my rights being parlayed, compromised and negotiated. What these goobers don't understand is that there is no compromise. I've been watching the stupidity being bantered about and seeing some #### that is really starting to piss me off right now. And in my mind they really don't have the authority. I'm tired and fed up. It's past time to remind these idiots they work for us and answer to us....not their own personal agenda. And I for one say to these people "No, enough is enough". You don't get to make that decision for me. You don't get to do that so no....screw you...no. There are calls to repeal or abolish the Second Amendment. Go ahead, what you aren't getting is that piece of paper doesn't give me that right. It simply acknowledges that right does in fact exist. Go ahead...take the whole freakin' Constitution. No piece of paper ever granted a damn thing but quite a few take more and more away. The Constitution grants nothing and therefore can't deny either. What people don't seem to understand are my rights are above the Constitution which means they are above them as well. So to them I say screw you...no more. If you want my personal property than you come and get it. You....don't send some lackey to do your dirty work. You show me the depths of your convictions and I'll show you mine. To the guy that might end up at my door.... I only say "Don't be the lackey". You're answer should be No...screw you...not no but hell no.

The political compass needle shifts so much over time... Figure Obama was well to the right of Nixon. But, George W. Bush would be considered a “liberal RINO” by most of the right today. At the very least, there’s no way he could win the GOP nomination today. Who’s who? One thing I will note is that the needle seems to be swinging a lot faster these days. I’m not sure what the cause is. Probably multiple factors. Human existence has evolved more in the last 50 years than it has in the last 50,000. Maybe we’re just not ready to adapt to so much change. Could be social media. I think there’s a lot to us consuming relationships online as opposed to having to invest in them in person. That’s not to mention how effective social media is at telling us how to think instead of requiring us to put the time in to consider our rhetoric. There are no easy answers, that’s for sure.

Just look at how many gun owners want Federal reciprocity. They want the government telling us where and how we can carry. Not me. I want nothing to do with it. There is no putting the Genie back in the bottle on that. I adamantly defend States Rights.

I see that this post has been licking around awhile, but I'll still add my two cents. As to copy (I hate the word "clone") or Colt, I've got a number s Single Action revolvers, Ubertis, Colts, and Rugers. Of the Colts, mine are either Colt New Frontiers or the one customized Single Action Army. I've got one Vaquero, the rest are Blackhawks/Super Blackhawks. The one thing that turns me off on genuine Colts is not only the original purchase price, but the additional price of the action job to get it in the same ball park as the Ruger or Ubeti. The feel of the grip for the Colt and Uberti is about the same, but I find the Ruger Blackhawk grip better to my liking. But when all is said and done and the guns are fed the ammunition that best suits them, its really hard to make a choice, except when magnum performance is wanted, then its Ruger hands down. Bob Wright

Let’s not forget the GOPA that Reagan signed. It was supposed to be “good” but think for a bit about the Hughes Amendment. I’d hate to go into session attempting to “trade” bump fire stocks for reciprocity, and then “accidentally” lose semi-auto rifles, drum magazines, or anything else. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Problem is, we never get any pieces back once we lose them. I say fight this, fight it tooth and nail.

The time for trading is when you're forced to by divided government, or by being in the absolute minority so you can at least soften the blow in exchange for allowing the other side label it bipartisan.

There’s always another slice of cake to be had...

Come October, we will be in our new home 3 years. About 9 years ago the previous owner put an addition on the back of the garage with a basement below the garage floor level. When ever there is any kind of steady rain for a couple of days, the basement floor would flood out from water seepage threw the back block wall. Apparently the builder wasn't to bright when considering water management of the foundation. The basement floor slab is poored on ledge rock so if you seal up the back wall with no footing drain..... I get what I had..... water intrusion. SO, A jack hammer was out of the question with arthritis setting in so level one is 7.62x39. After about 200 some odd rounds, I drained out a lot of the item 4 back fill. I still had to get back about 5 feet in there to where the water was seeping in with a small trench and the x39 was proving not so effective on the floor slab. So I stepped it up to some M2-AP. Its from the 50's but did a fine job. Then about 80-ish round of old M2 ball to excavate the back fill. About a dozen hang fires and equal amount of duds got me to where I wanted to be. A good flush of a garden hose left no puddles behind but a nice fast drainage. Now I don't want folks to think this is particularly a safe thing to do since a bullet frag could very well have been along with the showers of concrete chips flying out of there but I have to admit.... it was fun as all get out blasting the crap out of that slab & back fill! Time to clean the ol 03-A3 tonight 8)

Pardon me, but bull####. The will of the people cannot be defeated by technology and a bunch of Stingers did not turn the tide.

Those same goat herders in Afghanistan had a lot to do the fall of the USSR after eight years of war. They started out with old flintlocks and Enfields.

I'll point out we've basically lost a war to illiterate goat herders with nothing more than AK's, mortars, and arty shells to use as IED's. Mind you, they don't speak our language, there aren't millions of them who understand our tactics and weapon systems as well as current active duty service personnel, and they don't have access to the homeland where the basic supply chain is completely unprotected and families live in near complete safety. All those fancy weapon systems require 100's of man hours of maintenance, replacement parts, and a bunch of civilian contractors to keep them running. If you're scared of fighting the military on our soil, trust me the military is 100x more scared of fighting an insurgency here.

More musings on the Las Vegas shooting... I am almost certain at this point that the lack of an obvious motive by the shooter is going to be used by the Left to further demonize gun owners. My gut tells me that we can expect to see the media and the hacks this country has elected to Congress begin using the lack of clear motive as a speaking point whereby they make their case that background checks don't work and that the only answer to the problem of evil people using tools to do evil deeds is to remove the tools from circulation entirely. In other words, they are going to declare that the lack of motive is the most disturbing point of all and is the reason why no one should ever have a gun or a gun of a certain type. They will say that it is proof that none of us can be trusted, despite the fact that this crime was committed by just one of some 7.7 Million estimated gun owners in the United States. The absurdity of painting with such a wide brush will, of course, be dismissed willfully by a public seemingly incapable of thinking for itself.

Once the government takes something, if won't be given back.

Security at scale is really hard. It’s even harder when you’re trying to also get thousands of people to spend their leisure money with you at the same time.

But, with a "Pro-Gun" President and a "Pro-Gun" House and a "Pro-Gun" Senate, explain to me why anything "needs" to be "compromised"? Seems to me if anyone truly was "Pro-Gun" and anyone truly hand any backbone and truly represented We The People, then absolutely, literally, nothing could be done and we could just go forward. As tragic as it was, after Sandy Hook a lot of pro gun people fought and fought and fought, because "Obama!". I thought an AWB was coming down the pipe but it never did. Now this has happened and a lot of those very same "pro gun people" are saying "Look, this is reasonable, lets do this, it doesn't affect me,". It's easy to keep things out of Congress when you control both the House and the Senate in terms of political parties. I think this is a decent litmus test to determine exactly how "Pro-Gun" many Republicans that advertise themselves as such are.

Even the tank driver has to pee.

If you're an NRA member you need to call and complain that they are caving on the 2nd Amendment and their stance must change. You will refuse to donate anymore money to the NRA until they reverse their stance. Then turn around and donate $20 to the GOA who doesn't compromise on gun rights no matter what. And yes I'm a lifetime member of the NRA, and this is exactly what I did this morning.

You are absolutely, 100% correct, IMO. The 2nd Amendment was intended to protect private ownership of the types of arms needed to resist a potentially tyrannical government. The Founders knew that weapons technology, just like any technology, would change and wrote the 2nd Amendment to cover those future changes. Contrary to statements by antis trying to be clever, no, they weren't talking (specifically) about muskets. They were talking about private weapons of war, whatever form those weapons would take from muzzleloaders to full auto rifles to phase plasma rifles in a 40 watt range. The very weapons our government has illegally and unconstitutionally banned because 'no one needs them' are the type of weapons the 2nd Amendment is supposed to protect. Furthermore, banning bump stocks because 'no one needs them' is just another brick in the wall. If it is about hunting and self defense, a person can deer hunt just fine with a bolt action rifle with a three round magazine or, for that matter, with a single shot, break action rifle or shotgun. A person can defend their home just fine with a pump shotgun, pump or lever rifle or a revolver. Personally, I prefer lever rifles and revolvers over AR style rifles and semiauto pistols anyhow but that doesn't mean I want to see semiautos and standard capacity (or larger) mags banned. Likewise, just because I might not 'want' a bump stock or have any interest in owning a full auto that doesn't mean I believe they should be banned nor that I cannot understand the unconstitutional nature of doing so.

To me, support or opposition of tossing the BFS on the NFA list comes down to whether or not you accept the NFA as legitimate. If you do and if we're honest with ourselves then the BFS deserves to be on it, and so does the Sig Brace. Everyone knows that both are ways to skirt around the NFA's regulation of FA and SBR by offering a very similar capability, but just different enough for someone to say "eh...maybe that's not exactly the same thing as in the law". We don't mind because it saves us paperwork and $200 and we know that the NFA regulation is kind of stupid given all the many ways to kill people without using an NFA item and we know that with training an SA can fire pretty close to an FA (or faster if your last name is Miculek). But in the end we all know what these devices like the BFS are for. If FA and SBRs are to be regulated by F-Troop, then the BFS and SigBrace should be included, and probably some other devices like trigger cranks as well. Maybe binary triggers too, but I personally don't know much about them. That's not throwing anyone under the bus because they like those things and I don't. It's simply that if the NFA is going to regulate FA and SBR and knowing that these devices are for all intents and purposes FA and SBR devices when used they way pretty much anyone who has one uses them, then they should be included in the NFA. On the flip side, if you think the NFA is an unjust law which infringes on the right of the free people to keep and bear arms, then by all means oppose adding something else to it. Unfortunately, that's pushing a rope uphill. But I'll keep pushing it anyway.

And for those that don't, let me refresh some memories. http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2010/09/ok-ill-play.html?m=1

I just said why. Because it really did help that guy kill a lot more people. And, it really has no other practical function. Every time this debate comes up, the grabbers ask "why do you need an assault weapon?". I have pretty good justifications. Can't answer about bump stocks with a straight face. Maybe I am being a little bit like the grabbers. I personally have no use for one. When it comes down to it, I figure the ATF will kill them before Ryan and his singing RINOs has a chance.

This was my point after Sandy Hook when many members of this board were saying that we must compromise to keep from losing everything. Nothing came of it then and now too many gun owners are singing the same song of compromise. I've heard many of you describe the bump fire stock as useless, gimikey, only morons buy them, etc.... There are a lot of people out there that use those same words to describe a AR-15. I know others have said it, but why do we have to give something up every time some loon commits an atrocity? If the video of the PODS in a pussy hat proves to be him, I say we go after pussy hats! (sarcasm to make a point for those of you incapable of reading into it)

Okay, but why even give on this? A Republican President, a Republican Congress...and all Democrats can do is hold press conferences until they realize it's almost time for the Thanksgiving recess. Republicans and the NRA are caving on something they don't have to, and can wait out with no real consequences.

It sure won’t be a good thing when a government built in opposition now feels the need to do something... I heard two GOP congressmen even blame bumpfire stocks on Obama today. That’s rich. This will be really interesting when it comes to that whole “well regulated militia” thing. For generations, semiautomatic has meant one press of the trigger yields one bullet firing. Now, we have semiautomatic devices “acting like automatic weapons.” It’s not a far stretch to argue that people can just fire a semiautomatic weapon too quickly. You’ll likely see any bam go through the courts - but that’ll bring little comfort with the bureaucratic morass that is the ATF. But, pay attention. You’re about to have folks lining up to seem relevant. Healthcare is hard. Tax reform Is harder. I expect the GOP will take the easy win here. The answer isn’t “more real conservatives” either. Even y’all’s Freedom Caucus guys are lining up to take a swing. I’ve been doing some pondering and have some ideas, but I’m afraid we’re too far gone as a nation to accept them.

How do those bus wheels feel, fellas? I think they're stupid toys, but the folks at Negotiating Rights Away and the Republicans have just thrown ya down there in a nice little knee jerk reaction.

You either have a right under the 2nd amendment to own a fully automatic weapon or you don’t; it’s that simple. While bump fires may not violate the letter of the law; they violate the intent of the law. The intent of the 2nd amendment was allow the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government should the need arise. You would need automatic weapons if that were to happen. Do I think the SCOTUS will ever rule that, or ease restrictions? Not after 10/01/2017.

As long as it's inline with the receiver and barrel, scope/sight should be able to still dial in okay. Have two of them (original models) both on WASER. They both are just shy of being right over the dead middle of the dust cover, but even cheap scopes sight in fine from there: Also, you got me curious, and I also have a PSA AK and an unconverted SAIGA. So I drug them out along with the WASR above, and found that the mount fits the SAIGA fine, but only goes on about 3/4 of the way onto the PSA mount before getting to tight, even loosened all the way. I'm sure I could tap it onto place, or if not, spread the bottom space of the mount just a skosh and make it work. I didn't dig deep enough to get to the second WASR, but I remember that it fit tighter right out of the box, and remember I had to tweak it a bit. And btw, you know at least with these models, the screw is backwards right? (lefty tighty, righty loosie). - OS

By the time whatever bill is introduced, committeed, and agreed upon it might be a federal crime to have a shrubbery in your front yard.

I like the idea of varying the course each time. I am planning on being at this race. I was so disappointed that I had to miss the match in September. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honestly I'm surprised it has made it this long with all of those videos of people using hundreds of pounds of it to blow up stuff on youtube. That's on a whole different level than guns.

The 2nd will be fine. If the NRA thinks giving in on bump stocks will get them National Reciprocity; let them try.

Problem is many so called 2nd Amendment supporters are folding like a house of cards on this issue, so signing this won't disenfranchise them.

Obviously this is a very opinionated topic that is pure speculation at this point. On a side note, with this level of rebuke the houses are putting up against the white house, I'm not sure anyone is playing on the same team.

I'm glad someone remembers Lawdog.

Bump stocks, which have proven to have one, and only one practical use may get regulated. I was surprised when the ATF let them hit the market in the first place. That ain't the end of the second amendment. Can we get ahold of ourselves here? That is ALL that is gonna come from this.

It's called the Rapture. That's where.

I was expecting something totally different in this thread.... his and her plumbing

honestly I have no issue with it at all, it's the same exact thing as attaching a $250 sliding stock to my MP5 and having to pay the $200 extortion...I mean stamp fee. Both are ridiculous, and while I hate to give any ground at all, if it keeps the eyes off semi-autos for a few years, then *poof* let slidefires be regulated.

Agree 100%. I have a NF ATACR F1 4-16x42 on a SCAR 17 and it will be moving to my RPR to be replaced by a NF NSX 2.5-10x24 in the very near future. Love the build quality, love the glass and love that many are made here in the US(with import parts...lol)...as I get older my appreciation for quality glass grows.....NF fanboy here!

I also came to the conclusion that I need both. The Ruger has the strength and durabilty to handle all weather and heavy loads. The SAA and clones have the smooth 4-click actions that makes them so fun to operate.