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Okay, but why even give on this? A Republican President, a Republican Congress...and all Democrats can do is hold press conferences until they realize it's almost time for the Thanksgiving recess. Republicans and the NRA are caving on something they don't have to, and can wait out with no real consequences.

Of everyone one this forum ChuckT understands that the most.

I don't agree with ANY push to regulate something because of a deranged madman used it to kill people. I don't like auto anything, and don't do mag dumps, I am more effective using controlled fire. But if we keep allowing them to change the rules every time they get the notion, we are already sliding down that slippery slope. I for one think the NFA should never of existed in the first place and should be working to eliminate it, not add to it in any way shape or form.

That doesn't compute for libs. You mention murder is illegal, and they look at you like you have two heads.

I seen that and chalked it up to stupid. He didn't remove any windows, you can see shards of glass hanging in the frame in every video played the next morning. Then, WTF is a sniper's nest? And he didn't disarm the smoke alarms, that's what gave away the exact position. He didn't disarm any security system, and no one knows how much training he had, or what his motives were. The only thing that meme has proper is that the creator sounds confused by starting off with "let me get this straight...."

Well, for one, with a “Republican” president and Congress, we don’t have to toss them the bait. Let’s not forget what happens when you start feeding animals. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How do those bus wheels feel, fellas? I think they're stupid toys, but the folks at Negotiating Rights Away and the Republicans have just thrown ya down there in a nice little knee jerk reaction.

It's frustrating because for years the ATF has upheld that 1 trigger pull = 1 bullet fired = not a machine gun. Now, I will admit that it could be argued that devices like this violate the spirit of the law, it isn't technically in violation of the law itself according to the ATF. Now, you have people on the GOP side proposing this stuff, which supposedly goes against what everyone likes the GOP for anyways. Will it affect me if they ban these stocks in any way? No, I don't plan on getting one. Would it affect me if they banned $100 Saturday night specials or $10,000 custom rifles? Not at this point in my life, but I don't want them banning anything that the constitution guarantees us in the first place. Luckily to most in this world, my opinion matters very little. If we/anyone caves into this right now, then next time someone with any clue/skill and tactical planning commits another atrocity, then we as a collective whole will have to ban something else that gave the shooter in that scenario an advantage. Next time it might be high cap magazines, detachable magazines, or combat optics (red dot, etc).

It's called the Rapture. That's where.

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a God giving right, mans laws can not take it away. All this "slipper sloop" started in 1930s with the taking of full auto, all because of a few outlaws killing a few LEO. It is not the "tools" fault, the left will never see it as "users" fault. The next step down that sloop is taking away a gimmick that can make you waste ammo. Hell I can waste ammo with my finger hung on my belt loop. It will be mags again, then the evil black gun thing. Stand for something or fall for anything. No I aint going out to buy a bump stock, I do not even want one. I want full auto back!!! I want the same arms that LEO and Military can get. Yes jet planes, guided missiles everything. I am a good person, tell me why I can not buy them, other than a man thinks I am not good enough. That pisses me off to no end!!!

Or murder. Let's outlaw murder...

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to ban the gathering of large crowds?

Or the ATF classifies a bump fire stock as a machine gun with a letter, and diffuses the whole damn gun control push.

Here is the other side of the coin, and it is not to defend the warranty/insurance company. I am a plumber for the largest privately owned plumbing company in my region. With decades of respect and a quality reputation. We are honest and fair. Not everyone in my trade is. My company warranties all work and stands behind it and our employees. I am proud of my profession and my company. Not all of my peers. Especially the thieves in the Blue Trucks. Due to our response time and expertise we hold a contract with a national home insurance company I will not name. You can get coverage for your water service line, internal plumbing, external plumbing, water heaters and HVAC. My company does not mess with electical or HVAC, we are plumbers. This insurance is offered through most major metropolitan utility companies for a monthly fee. With this insurance you pay nothing out of pocket for service. It doesn't cover plumbing fixtures. No faucets, no water closets, no valves. It covers pipe breaks and stoppages. It covers water heaters. These contracts are negotiable. There are a few other companies in town that also have a contract with the same company. We recently tried to renegotiate and we lost a sizable chunk of the contract as it wasn't evening out for us. The insurance company chose to go with a smaller less capable company and the customers are paying the price. I hear it daily when I am sent out to fix an issue the other company was incapable of resolving. This insurance can be invaluable for homeowners who don't have the money for the service, or require extensive and expensive services. It is a massive pain the ass for the service company though. More often than not they are actually paid LESS on the job than they would for a private call. My company for instance is paid at a flat rate depending on the call type. Internal coverage pays a flat rate, snake a drain? $X. Repipe from the upstairs bathroom to the basement, through the walls to the main stack across 40'? $X. External coverage pays a flat rate, drag your 300lb machine down two flights of stairs to use a Sawzall to cut open a pipe to snake the main? $Y. Dig up half the yard to replace root infested pipes with new PVC and backfill? $Y. Snake from an outside cleanout and be on site for less than twenty minutes? $Y Those jobs mentions could vary in price for the private customer from $99 to $5000. With the insurance they often pay nothing. There are a few reinstatement fees or items the insurance won't cover. However, we go back the to same instance of a $99 job being paid the same flat rate (which is higher than $99) as the $5000 job being paid the same flat rate (which is a lot closer to $99.) Now, that is not to say that we are indifferent. I treat all of my customers the same, regardless of who is paying the bill. Many times it is the insurance company directly that is difficult to deal with. You get sent to a house with little more information than "The toilet won't flush." And honestly, most customers don't know more than that. As a professional it can range anywhere from Little Susie used too much toilet papers to a pipe being collapsed. However, if I am able to get the customer flow, per the contract with the insurance company, I am done, time to leave and I now own a warranty on that call. When I am called back three days later because the toilet won't flush again, I am back out there, to attempt to get the customer flow. Even if I KNOW the line is collapsed, if I can get flow, it is time to load up and leave. If I am lucky, after the third time (and only having been paid once!) I might get authorization to run a camera to determine the root (pun!) of the problem and get authorization to repair the line. This procedure can take up to six months if the insurance company wants to be a pain. A private customer? "Oh look, I pulled back a ton of roots, your home is X years old and has terra cotta pipes, I can run a camera for a discounted fee to determine the state of your line." Followed with "Your lines are fine, use a little foaming Root X in three days time and you shouldn't have to see me again for a few years," or "Wow, this isn't good as you can see here on the camera... here is a written estimate for the repair that is good for one year from the date." Which means that we can often have the entire situation resolved in a day or two at the tops. I have often amazed customers (insurance and private) when I pull a shovel off my truck, dig a three foot hole and repair a sewer in a matter of minutes, when they expected a week or two lead time. I take pride in my job, I am good at it, and I make a lot of money doing it. I understand that not everyone in my profession has the same moral compass as I do. However, don't discount an entire trade on a few dishonest cats. And again, it is often the insurance warranty company, not the service company, that complaints are about.

I don't know ####

There’s always another slice of cake to be had...

It sure won’t be a good thing when a government built in opposition now feels the need to do something... I heard two GOP congressmen even blame bumpfire stocks on Obama today. That’s rich. This will be really interesting when it comes to that whole “well regulated militia” thing. For generations, semiautomatic has meant one press of the trigger yields one bullet firing. Now, we have semiautomatic devices “acting like automatic weapons.” It’s not a far stretch to argue that people can just fire a semiautomatic weapon too quickly. You’ll likely see any bam go through the courts - but that’ll bring little comfort with the bureaucratic morass that is the ATF. But, pay attention. You’re about to have folks lining up to seem relevant. Healthcare is hard. Tax reform Is harder. I expect the GOP will take the easy win here. The answer isn’t “more real conservatives” either. Even y’all’s Freedom Caucus guys are lining up to take a swing. I’ve been doing some pondering and have some ideas, but I’m afraid we’re too far gone as a nation to accept them.

I am ready

Oh, I agree. Bump stocks are probably gone - or at least access to them without tax stamps, etc. However, I think our 'advocates' - both in political office and elsewhere - should make it a hard fought loss. Make the other side expend some political capital to earn that legislation rather than having a group that is supposedly on 'our side' say, "Take our rights, please!" My concern is that someone, somewhere will correctly point out that bump stocks are only one method which can be used to allow semiauto rifles to fire basically like automatic rifles. Heck, I seem to recall recently a sort of robot/cyborg glove that someone could wear which would make their trigger finger move quickly enough to fire at auto rates of speed. For that matter, I have seen videos where Jerry Miculek was firing semiauto pistols at rates close enough to full auto to not make much difference on the receiving end with no mechanical aid, at all. Making the politicians fight over bump stocks will give them something to chew on until some of the initial shock and outcry dies down. Not doing so gives too easy a victory to our enemies and allows them to move past the specific bump stock issue too quickly. Then the idea that, as long as semiauto rifles remain on the market and unregulated, this kind of thing could happen again will take hold (justifiably or not.) Giving up on bump stocks so quickly also allows them to move on to 'high capacity magazines' without breaking stride. If bump stocks are going to be sacrificed then the sacrifice should at least mean something. Wait until giving them up can be presented as 'compromise'. Make the politicians fight for the bump stocks to appease both sides' desire to be seen as 'doing something' rather than giving up the bump stocks easily so that the antis can quickly move on to, "Ban semiautos."

Looking at what's currently in place, it seems that they will possibly have to rewrite the definition of automatic fire. Which is where I have a problem with legislators messing with this topic. A few mis-strokes of the pen and a simple crisp yet short reset competition trigger such as my geissele S3G is gone as well b/c it can be used to fire "more rapidly".

Current supply and current demand vs theoretical future supply. Simple really. Also keep in mind, most of the assaults on the 2nd have included some form or fashion of a grandfather clause. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep

I hope the creator didn't slit his wrist with all that tin foil keyboard kung fu

Saw this, and it does make one wonder.

Come October, we will be in our new home 3 years. About 9 years ago the previous owner put an addition on the back of the garage with a basement below the garage floor level. When ever there is any kind of steady rain for a couple of days, the basement floor would flood out from water seepage threw the back block wall. Apparently the builder wasn't to bright when considering water management of the foundation. The basement floor slab is poored on ledge rock so if you seal up the back wall with no footing drain..... I get what I had..... water intrusion. SO, A jack hammer was out of the question with arthritis setting in so level one is 7.62x39. After about 200 some odd rounds, I drained out a lot of the item 4 back fill. I still had to get back about 5 feet in there to where the water was seeping in with a small trench and the x39 was proving not so effective on the floor slab. So I stepped it up to some M2-AP. Its from the 50's but did a fine job. Then about 80-ish round of old M2 ball to excavate the back fill. About a dozen hang fires and equal amount of duds got me to where I wanted to be. A good flush of a garden hose left no puddles behind but a nice fast drainage. Now I don't want folks to think this is particularly a safe thing to do since a bullet frag could very well have been along with the showers of concrete chips flying out of there but I have to admit.... it was fun as all get out blasting the crap out of that slab & back fill! Time to clean the ol 03-A3 tonight 8)

So, let me first state that I really don't have any, great desire to own a bump stock. However, I do have a great desire that Americans not lose the right to own such devices and I have a great desire that the organization that presents itself as a group that is supposed to be fighting against the loss of such rights not SUGGEST that those rights be taken away. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/10/05/nra-calls-for-atf-review-bump-stocks-new-regulations-after-las-vegas-shooting.html Truthfully, I think this is just more political tit for tat. Legislators, especially ostensibly 'pro-gun' Republican legislators may throw gun owners a bone every once in a while so that the NRA can trumpet a victory. Then, when it comes time for the NRA to scratch some politicians' backs, they throw those Republicans a bone by suggesting that taking more freedom away from the gun owning public would be a great idea so that when those Republican legislators do so - thereby giving themselves something they can point to in the next election to show that they 'did something' about mass shootings, etc. they won't lose their NRA 'A' rating because the NRA suggested the stripping of those rights in the first place. I understand the concept of 'picking your battles'. I also think the NRA rolls over when they should stand and fight, sometimes but understand that this is how they work and that we have to take the good with the bad. What I don't understand is shooting yourself in the foot and/or asking to be allowed to unconditionally surrender before the battle really even starts. No, I am not an NRA member. However, despite all the little things they have done in the past with which I do not agree I was getting ready to bite the bullet and join. I literally (and by literally I mean literally - some people apparently don't know what the word means these days) looked up how to join the NRA just yesterday and was making plans to do so. It looks like they just saved me forty bucks.

Very nice. She is a beauty.

Problem is, we never get any pieces back once we lose them. I say fight this, fight it tooth and nail.

Garufa knows what's what. I totally figured that went without saying. I mean he was a liberal democrat until he decided to run for President. He supported the awb in his books and he WILL flip on the 2A.

But, “they” are “we” and in this case the “we” is “them” and not “us”. Reagan signed in the last major AWB. Let’s not become complacent just because we pretend to want to trust Trump with the 2nd. For years people dug up quotes from Obama’s books insinuating support of Islam. Shall we do the same regarding some of Trump’s older books regarding the 2nd? I’m not convinced. Sure, he hopefully is better than Hillary would have been, but I don’t consider him a strong ally either regarding that right. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unfortunately they just take and give nothing back. Looks like BFS could be outlawed within a week of the incident. Record time for libs and GOP alike. Unreal !

Just said "buynarey triger like nu.by it why u can" Im just sure it was top notch,lol. People crack me up.

Honestly, guys, I think we're going to be really lucky if we don't see regulation of bump-fire stocks followed by the complete prohibition of full-auto weapons within the next 10 years. The government might not engage in outright confiscation, but they might easily prohibit any future transfer of them as Class III items and let them "die on the vine" as their owners pass away. Trusts might protect them for one additional generation of owners past that. Once the original owners or executors of trusts pass away, they'd be subject to forfeiture or become illegally-possessed items. I'd love to be wrong about this, but I can easily see where Trump or some other politician cede ground and enact "feel good" legislation to obliterate the already regulated possession of actual assault rifles.

Won't renew my membership. Waiting until 2021 and then going to GoA. I'll save my money for a lifetime membership somewhere else. What happened to "Stand and Fight?" Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

RIGHT. Leave the legislators out of it. The NRA is not screwing us here. They are screwing that greasy ass Schumer and his merry band of idiots.

When I get home later tonight I can try to look it up in the 2017 books.

I've heard of people putting it in a screened box to get good air flow but keep the bugs out, but it would have to dry fast enough or have enough salt to prevent bacterial growth. Maybe if it was cold smoked first? I saw Alton Brown had a way of doing it by putting strips in between air filters (the kind that won't leave filament in the meat) about 3 layers deep then bungee cording it to a box fan for about 24hrs. This way the meat is "cold" dried vs cooked (dehydrator). Never tried this method, but I may depending on my harvest this year, but I would probably use food grade mesh instead of filters.

honestly I have no issue with it at all, it's the same exact thing as attaching a $250 sliding stock to my MP5 and having to pay the $200 extortion...I mean stamp fee. Both are ridiculous, and while I hate to give any ground at all, if it keeps the eyes off semi-autos for a few years, then *poof* let slidefires be regulated.

You know, CZ, come to think of it - even though I try to avoid calling a 'magazine' a 'clip' - I don't recall ever having heard anyone talk about 'banana magazines'. For that matter, I don't recall ever having heard 'jungle magazines', either. They always seem to be 'banana clips' and 'jungle clips'. I prefer to differentiate the terms 'magazine' and 'clip' most of the time and can see that misuse would be a pet peeve of gun people. That said, let's be realistic. Clips, magazines - they both refer to devices intended to hold ammunition so that multiple rounds of said ammunition can be loaded into a firearm at once. Further, under the definition of 'clip', the online version of the Merriam-Webster dictionary (a pretty well recognized dictionary and, I suppose, authority on what words 'mean' in the English language) includes this: So, at least in common usage, when referring to a device from which ammunition is fed into a firearm, the terms are interchangeable. As CZ said, whether we like it or not.

I have like most of you have seen and read most of these stories. I'm not saying if they're true or not but I do have one question that I can't find an answer to. ...........How the hell did they get the grassy mound out of that room so fast.

Here are some observations that I find interesting, nothing more. I find it interesting that he "offed" himself. I suppose he was truly terrified of being taken in alive or painfully taken out. He set up cameras to watch for the police's arrival. He shot through a door and hit a security guard. He surely would have known he would have died when the police showed up if he showed them resistance/force. I suppose I would have just assumed he would have fought it out with police until they killed him. His attire. I didn't look through all the images, only the less gruesome ones. It looked like he was wearing slacks and loafers. He did not plan on getting into any conflict at all. Even if he wanted to "blend in" with the typical Vegas scene, he could have easily put on some quality boots and more useful pants. He could have bundled them in with the weapons. So this reinforces that he truly had no interest in escaping or fighting. Referring to the theory that he was a patsy, I can see why many people are quick to gravitate towards that. Look at all the movies we have to insinuate that exact thing happens all the time! Shooter is the first and foremost that comes to mind. Create a movie about a guy that uses a precision rifle to assassinate a single target in the crowd and then sprays hundreds of bullets into the crowd immediately afterwards to mask the true goal of the thing, all the while setting someone innocent up and escaping themselves, you'd have an instant blockbuster! Unfortunately, some of these things are hard to prove/disprove due to the amount of evidence provided to us the citizenry. Can any of use analyze every camera at the hotel to determine whether anyone left the scene before police arrived? I don't think so. So anyone that wants to believe "it could have happened" can very well do just that, without any solid concrete evident directly available to contradict that theory. That is, assuming that this same person does not take the official story at its word. With that being said, assuming that a person believes the shooter and his girlfriend were actually a couple, and that he actually sent her away beforehand, that seems to indicate he foresaw something.

Snopes already does. http://www.snopes.com/second-gunman-shoot-fourth-floor-mandalay-bay/ Of course, the obvious problem with the contention is that the windows don't open, and none were broken in whole hotel except in Paddock's suite. - OS

It is beautiful when this is the first 10 rounds each you fire out of 2 new (to me) guns.... especially when you are hurrying.

The Gell-Mann Amnesia affect is probably worth considering when looking at reporting here. As stated by Michael Crichton: Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.

................some photos of custom revolvers, especially Single Action revolvers. If you've got a customized Colt, Uberti, or Ruger that's been to your 'smith's, post a photo of it here. Here is one of mine: This is a Colt Single Action Army, .357 Magnum. The brass backstrap is from an 1851 Navy, grips home made, S&W rear sight, Ruger front sight. This was done by (the late) Ed Mason & Sons gunsmiths. Yours? Bob Wright

Play stupid games with stupid prizes. Most people that have ever shot full auto understand it is good for a few laughs but that is about all. Fun as long as someone else is buying the ammo. Not as much fun though when it is your ammo. Controlled fire is much more accurate and effective. However either method is horrific when it is from a madman.

I wish I'd known about this method long ago when I was hunting them.

A trip-on-open alarm is the weakest type. Yes they avoided it that way, but there should be a glass break alarm and motion detection in the shop as a secondary coverage. In this case the glass break failed, but it is understandable. Usually they only pick up on theives breaking the glass cases. Stiffer measures are usually not in place due to cost pure and simple. Maybe deciding security the same way other business related decisions are decided, is not the best. Most shops of any kind do it that way though. Same thing with video cams. Lots of places have the cheapest one Sam's or another retailer carries. Cheap, but like watching a 1940's movie through fogged up glass. I really hope you guys catch these guys. Good Luck.

I've got bottles from 5 or 6 different 4 Roses PS single barrels (4 of the 10 recipes) and two bottles currently open. I've tasted all of them (some before purchase) and have emptied a few bottles. Fortunately, I have backups of several of the ones I've emptied. I don't think I've ever had a bad 4 Roses Single Barrel Private Selection, just some were maybe a little better than others. I highly recommend them if you see them in your local liquor stores. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Dude, you have a serious problem. And I love it.