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I took an 8 point at 7:15 yesterday morning. It dressed 175. Biggest one yet for me.

How to Sell Your Guns When the Market is Slow September 24, 2017 This is an article that I have been tempted to write on several occasions now, but each time I questioned whether the timing was right or if the message would be welcomed and so I postponed. Recently, however, there have been quite a few threads and individual comments made about the difficulties of selling firearms during a "slow market" so I think the time is right. But First, Some History... I do not want to dwell too much on this particular point, but I do believe that it is salient to pause for a moment and observe the current political climate as it has directly influenced the state of firearms sales across the nation. Up until the last US Presidential Election in November of 2016, the firearms industry was booming because people were afraid of both who was then currently, and who might have been next, occupants of the White House. Fear of scarcity or outright prohibition of a thing absolutely drives up demand for that thing, and subsequently the cost of that thing. During the Obama Administration, we lived under the constant specter of another weapons ban and we saw supplies of certain firearms and ammunition all but dry up. What was left to be found almost always had a high price tag assigned to it. When Donald J. Trump was elected, gun owners and prospective gun owners all sighed an enormous collective sigh of relief and practically overnight the firearms industry was dumped on its head. The fear was gone. The incentive to buy was gone. Warehouses of ammunition and firearms that had been rushed to production ahead of what could have been a Hillary Clinton White House were suddenly quiet and stagnant. And so, the firearms industry did what any industry does in cases like this: It suffered. It cut costs. I dumped products at prices that were unheard of a month before. The fire sale began, and it persists to this day. Why Should You Care About Any of That? The reasons any of that is important to you are these: That tactical rifle you bought a few years ago and paid nearly $2,000 for is probably being sold new today for less than half that price. That handgun you bought last year is probably anywhere from $50-75 cheaper this year, brand new, and probably comes with twice as many extra magazines straight from the manufacturer. Today, retailers are competing against you in your role as the Seller for the same sales you are trying to make. They are able to offer brand new merchandise today for prices that would have been reasonable for you to ask for a gently used item this time last year. To snare a buyer on the secondary market in this economy, you have to distinguish yourself and what you are selling in some way that makes it more appealing to the person debating between your gun and that brand new one in the store. So, How Do You Sell in a Slow Market? I have been paying very close attention to this for the past few months and these are my observations. They are not the gospel, but they seem to be holding up under their own merit so far. As with anything, there may be exceptions to any or all of these, and if that works in your favor then I am going to be very thrilled for you. Do your research. Check the retail pricing and availability of whatever you are trying to sell. Mark your price accordingly. Understand that if you are priced too close to retail for a new item, most folks will go buy the new item instead. Also, check and see if a new version or model of whatever you are selling has just been or soon will be released. Prices on old versions almost always go down when a new version is out or is imminent. Eat The Extras. Those expensive night sights that you put on your handgun? Consider eating the cost of those. Point that out as an incentive to buy your handgun rather than the one in the store that doesn't have them. The same goes for tossing in a few extra magazines if you have them, or other small accessories. Obviously, there is a limit to how much you should be willing to eat of the cost of an item, but even then be willing to discount whatever you are adding to the "package price" so that it is compelling to a shopper. Break Up The Package. If you don't want to eat the cost of too many extras, or if the price of your package offering seems to be turning shoppers away, consider breaking apart the package and offering the core item at a cheaper price and then liquidate the accessories separately. This is expecially helpful if you have non-regulated accessories that could be sold on social media sites (Facebook, Twitter, etc) that do not allow gun sales but do not prohibit accessories. Bigger audiences can mean quicker sales on those types of things. Understand The Impact of Modifications. This is going to hurt some feelings, but it has to be said. Modified guns are harder to sell. Think twice before you take a soldering iron (or pay someone else) to your Glock's frame to stipple it. The same goes for custom paint jobs or hydro-dipped graphics. Beauty is often in the eye of the beholder (YOU) in those things, and other people may not care for them at all. Don't be surprised if your stippled Glock with skulls and crossbones hydro dipped graphics doesn't sell quickly, or at all. Take Good Pictures. The addage that a picture is worth a thousand words is no more true than in advertising. People tend to want to see what they are buying. Take pictures of it and post them here or link to them elsewhere in your post. Ads without photos tend to be overlooked. Invest Some Time. If you post an advertisement, come back to it once a week and bump it back to the top of the "new items" search by replying to the thread. Reduce the price a little after a week or two, if you can. Be willing to engage with prospective buyers and answer questions. Entertain counter offers if you can. It takes a little time but it keeps your advertisement in front of eyeballs and that's what matters. Pull It Today and Sell It Later. Real estate brokers know that if a house has been on the market for too long, it goes "cold" and people stop looking at it. The buyers can see how long a house has been listed and assume something must be wrong with it if more than a reasonable amount of time has passed. Take a cue from that and de-list your items after a while if they don't sell. Come back later and list them again. I hope this helps you all in some way. The current environment is a buyer's market and biased against the seller, both at the retail level and on the used market. Gun stores are going out of business and folding up left and right. So are manufacturers. The ones who are surviving are relying on things other than gun sales to keep money and buyers coming through the doors. Now is the right time to buy firearms and ammo cheap and stack them deep. The political climate is guaranteed to shift again and when it does we will all find it hard to believe that we had it this good (as buyers) in days past. Above all, be patient. If you can afford not to sell a firearm right now, you might want to sit on it for another three years and see what happens with the next Presidential election. Trump has been GREAT for gun owners, but terrible for gun sellers. We might not be so lucky in the years ahead.

Dude would've been hit from every angle if that had happened in my church

A couple of ancillary observations... The post above should be fairly timeless and be relevant 3, 6, or even 15 years from now, but these comments are particular to the current time: AK-47/74 pattern rifles seem to be an exception to the slump in pricing and sales, especially if they were manufactured in Russia. These rifles are actually rising in cost. The past few years have seen AK and AR-15 pattern rifles completely trade places in terms of marketability and cost. Ten years ago, you would have been laughed out of town if you tried to sell an AK for more than a comparably equipped AR. These days, you can buy an AR that you'd actually want to shoot for less than $600 and that sort of money only gets you into a decent AK. Glock 19s tend to still do well on the secondary market because everyone needs one even if they don't really want one. The advent of the Generation 5 Glock 19 doesn't seem to have softened the resale value of the previous generations too much as the Gen5 hasn't had a chance to prove itself and Glock is notorious for having to fix problems with the first few batches of any new generation. The caveat to that, of course, is that modified Glocks don't always sell very quickly unless the seller prices them reasonably and in accordance to what has been done to them. Stippling and custom finishes (like Cerakote) are very polarizing and might only suit the personal taste of the seller. Revolvers, 1911s, and so-called "Brown Rifles" (hunting bolt actions, shotguns, etc.) seem to be fairly immune to the pricing slump since they were never really in the same level of demand as the tacti-cool stuff and consequently, the market was never flooded with a surplus of them. Collector guns are almost always immune to market fluctuation, which is why they are collector guns. When the rest of the firearms market is racing toward the bottom, there's an advantage to being priced at the top - especially if you can command it. Don't expect to see collectibles selling at bargain prices unless someone is really hurting for money and doesn't have a savvy friend to save them from making a hasty mistake.

I always carry in church, I have NO gun free zones....Prayers for the victims.

These were friends today... Y’all keep everyone involved in your prayers.

Seems at this point than an UNARMED usher confronted the shooter, they tussled, the perp was somehow shot in chest with his own gun, maybe even self inflicted. THEN, the hero went to his car and got his gun, in case there was more trouble. Reporting subject to change of course. - OS

Some of this weekend's therapy session. I was trying to empty a mag on each target fast as I could while staying on target somewhat, not sure what happened at 15 yards.

Was the drug problem worse than now before we declared a war on drugs? i was young then but have a feeling it probably turned out like the war on poverty did. If you are lacking core values, it doesn't matter what flavor of bad habit you have. If you had real values that make you a good person, they will win over extreme bad decisions, such as helping to dispose of the body.

Fly me to the moon, and let me play among the stars...

I am a chronic pain suffer, and I go to a pain clinic. I take my meds as prescribed and do not sell any of them. I know there are a lot of pill mills out there, and I could have probably gotten into one, but I researched and made sure I found a legit Pain Dr who tries other pain management treatment than just loading me up on pain meds. I do take an Opioid pain med, but I also have lidocaine creams, and go to a massage therapist weekly to mitigate the pain to a tolerable level. I know the opioid problem is huge right now, and needs to be gotten under control somehow, but all I've seen from the state is new stupid rules for patients. In the past few months I have had to go to a Psychologist because the state of Tennessee says if I receive long term pain meds I have to. I have to keep 2 doses of Narcan in my house, because the State says I have to (which I am not really adverse to but shouldn't be made to do it) They get tougher on pain meds and surprise heroin starts popping up everywhere, then people are dying because they super charge it with Fentanyl. If people want something like this they will find a way to get it. I have no ideal what the answer is, but hope they find it soon.

"Wanted to see how fast they could fly," when filmed MISSING a shot (or three) Great personality, shame the industry lost him in 2013

Seahawks, Titans, Steelers stay in locker rooms during national anthem as more players protest http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/09/24/ravens-jaguars-players-kneel-during-national-anthem-after-trumps-attacks-on-nfl.html I have not watched a game this year. Nor will I every spend money on the nfl. Then we have a hero to give us hope. http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/09/24/army-veteran-alejandro-villanueva-is-sole-steelers-player-to-stand-outside-for-national-anthem.html

Airmax Precision .22CAL PCP single shot pistol

I don't see any thing to be sad about 516. The Deacons/members are just keeping the flock of sheep safe from harm. Every flock should have at least 1 or 2 Sheep Dogs...........JMHO

I am not a person that attends church often but very strong believer in the Father, Son and Prayer and if I did attend a church I would definately be armed. I would be one of the Sheep Dogs guarding the flock for sure. Prayers being sent for those church members.

Correct. Shoot an eMail to Mike Glassman and ask when the next meeting is. There are specific times when the range is available (if you've never seen it, it cuts across part of the club, so is not open to shoot just any time). There are no fee's or additional due's or anything, they just want to make sure members understand and follow the rules for the safety of all club members. Alternatively, you could buy a bunch of really small targets and paste 'em up on the 200-yd target stand. - K

The approach of cutting off meds to those that need it is as bad as banning guns so criminals won't buy them. Probably worse because we have people suffering unnecessarily because of the beaurocratic idiocy! i feel bad for those of you having to suffer at the hands of idiots!!! A quick search shows that we, taxpayers, have spent over 1 trillion clams in the last 40 years on the war on drugs. Countless lives lost and incarcerated. Seems like a business to me. Not saying I condone legalizing drugs at all. But I do think that the regulation nation is all about $ and being our mommy. In Mexico, you don't need a prescription for meds that a Doc says you need. Here, you do for some stuff that should be over the counter. Heck, you do for pet meds! Even some pet foods. Its not baffling when you see it's a career field and we don't push back. If someone wants to buy Viagra or some pain killer, so be it, let them, if they do themselves in with it, so be it. The way it is now, there is more violence and mayhem because of regulation.

Thank god (no pun intended) someone on site at least had a gun in their vehicle to stop the thug.

I hunted yesterday till 10. Saw two does at 6:30 that were out of bow range. That's a ll I or my nephews saw yesterday morning.

Alchohol is legal, I still see drunk drivers! I still hear of airplane pilots trying to fly drunk. Surgeons doing procedures after a four martini lunch. Bus drivers drunk driving kids home. Making it legal just takes the criminal aspect away not the behavior of abuse. Humans are humans, they ar easily addicted to some items. Making it legal will just cause more and different issues very similiar to what happened after prohibition ended. The violence did not all end and the abuse surely did not. Just changed so legalizing anything is not the answer. I do not have the answer as much as I wish I could say I do. So as much as I hate to not be part of the solution I can say I raised my family to not be part of the problem. Chucktshoes I see you found this comment funny as in HA HA. Would you care to enlighten us as to what part of the drug problems we see in this country is the funny part? What I find funny (Not amusing) is that people keep reelecting the same idiots that got us here and are ot part of the solution. We have a war on everything and that includes morals and standards which explains a lot of the other issues in itself. So while I do not find anything funny about the war on drugs and I too am caught up in it as a Disabled Veteran who cannot get the proper care because of people abusing the meds I will continue to hope for a solution. Perhaps a little less progressive thinking or whatever the heck they are teaching in colleges would help. Too many spoiled brats that think they are owed something because they went into huge debt and spent four years learning how to basket weave and spek philosophy at a college. Well there is a reason I tend to hire folks with experience over folks with a degree. Most of the folks with degrees from the last 20 years are absolutely lost. Want everything for nothing and seem to have the same answer for everything. It is the rich business owners fault. Perhaps a smack in the rear parts or a fly swatter on the butt will wake them up. Preaching how drugs should be legal is nothing more than a talking point. Which is why we hear it most from the Hollywierd folks. It is a buzzword type arguement. Not really a good one at that as all of the folks preaching it still come down with the same points to discuss, nonoe of them valid I am afraid in my opinion but hey, first ammendment and all that so have at the argument. Until people learn morals and ethics nothing anyone does will have an impact on those that are willing to break a law be it of man or nature. I know it is awful cynical but you tend to get that way as you get older. Bottom line is if you want a good life and good things then you better have a good work ethic. Or a rich family. One builds character while the other builds bull####. So, Chucktshoes which part of this drug war or my comment did you find funny? Now keep in mind as a cynical old man that is actually a rhetorical question. I respect your right to an opinion and to voice it. What I do not have to do though is agree with it. That is a major issue from the "Progressive" front thesee days. They just will not see any other view point and refuse to think that we swhould not bow to theirs. Well I for one tend to think that it is time we stop bowwing annd start spanking more. The country tried the touchy feely everyone wins thing and it did not work. Time to go back to what did.

I had the pleasure of shooting with him many times in Minnesota. He was a good guy and always a great shownman. He carried himself very well. I saw him and Jerry Miculek go at it at the first annual Delton 3 gun shoot. They kept breaking those clays and it seemed like neither would ever miss. Eventually one of them did and as I recall it was Jerry. He then drew a revolver and picked off 6 clays that were lined up on the berm 50 yards down range. I miss those days. I get to shoot with family now and have not shot competition in decades. I was no where near their caliber at that point and am far worse now. I also recall twice being at shoots with some of the world's best shooters and being humbled and humilated. Twice I offered to guys to use my gun as theirs had broken. Once was my Bennelli shotgun and the other was my STI limited gun at the time. Both times I got my arse kicked with my own gun at a shoot. And when I say kicked I am not talking by a few points, rather more like a Chihuahua trying to run with the Grey Hounds. I was pretty decent and in the usual group of guys in Minnesota clubs I held my own taking 2nd place there for a couple years in Minnesota. It was very humbling to shoot with the likes of Tom, Jerry, Bruce Piatt, Todd Jarrett, Bob Mills, and a few of the others though, as I of course came in like in the middle to bottom third of the pack. Still I got to partake in a great hobby with a bunch of great guys. I would not trade those times for much. Now decades later I am unable to even run with the Chihuahua. I enjoy the sport still and shoot with my family as much as I can. Parkinson's has made me a lousy shot anymore but I can still outshoot some folks. More muscle memory than anything I am sure. Even if those muscles do not want to listen and do as they are told anymore. Kind of like kids that way I guess. Enjoy the sport now guys and have fun with it. I saw guys there competeing and having a blast with equipment far less exotic then what the nig boys were using. Bottom line is to get out and do it! I am so glad I was able to teach my children to shoot and that they enjoy this hobby as much as I do.

I saw Tom Knapp shoot several times. Magnificent shooter, one Hell of a showman and he treated everybody like a friend.

I mean I'm an ORSA member so heck let's get together anyway.

They made alcohol illegal, the mob got rich. They make weed, coke, and all kinds of other stuff illegal, the cartels are rich (is 'cartel' spanish for 'mob'? Dunno...) If people want it, they're going to get it. Doesn't matter what it is, ask any hooker you meet! - K

Actually there was a sister gun to the 85 which was the 86 but is completely rare and both the 85 and 86 were replaced by the Thunder Plus. The 85&86 were discontinued in 1994 and the Thunder Plus was introduced in 1995. The only real difference in the 85 and 86 was in the grip. Where the 85 has somewhat squared off grips the 86 had a more rounded grip but not much else. I can't see much difference in the Thunder Plus and the 85's. I think I read that there was about 1 ounce difference in loaded weight and the Thunder had the advantage of being the lighter of the 2. I hunted high and low for a back up magazine and anyone that has them are keeping them. I talked with my gunsmith about the issue. He told me to let him look and see what he could find and asked me if I could leave the 85 with him a couple days so I did. About a week later he called me up and told me to come by when I had time. I stopped in that afternoon. He took me down to the range and he went three 3 different mags one being the original and 2 others that he had purchased and modified just a very little and they worked perfectly just as the original did. They were the Thunder Plus magazines that he altered just a tad to make them work. I went through a box of ammo trying them out myself and paid him and left with now having 3 magazines for my 85.

I've said it before, I'll say it again as many times as it takes. If you really want to do something effective about drug use/abuse then you will stop treating a health issue as a criminal one. I know it will be totally counterintuitive, especially to some of the LE types, but the true path forward is legalization.

I dont shoot much paper but here is my range at the family farm that i shoot at every other week or so

Good job miller_man. Those 1" and 2" circles are more challenging than most people think. TLG knew what he was doing when he set up Pistol-Training dot com. P-T target link: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2124-Printable-Targets

That happened to me in Ohio. I ordered sweet tea out of habit. The server brought me sugar packets and an unsweat tea, and she said, "what, do you want me to put it in there for ya?" Somewhere north about Lexington and west about Dalas is the sweet/unsweet tea line. Beyond that, they're untrainable.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/24/multiple-people-shot-at-tennessee-church-police-say.html

Alchohol is legal, I still see drunk drivers! I still hear of airplane pilots trying to fly drunk. Surgeons doing procedures after a four martini lunch. Bus drivers drunk driving kids home. Making it legal just takes the criminal aspect away not the behavior of abuse. Humans are humans, they ar easily addicted to some items. Making it legal will just cause more and different issues very similiar to what happened after prohibition ended. The violence did not all end and the abuse surely did not. Just changed so legalizing anything is not the answer. I do not have the answer as much as I wish I could say I do. So as much as I hate to not be part of the solution I can say I raised my family to not be part of the problem.