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We're not into dude on dude stuff like .40SW adherents are.

9mm is European.

Don't bring facts and logic into this! We're talking about calibers here!

This is a partial truth. 9mm is only better than everything else if you shoot it out of a Glock.

9mm vs. ?? threads of recent are not as colorful compared to some in the past. Maybe the horse has been beaten into oblivion. However, just because I can, I dug up an old visual to add to the seemingly never ending debate, PERIOD.

As I posted a couple weeks ago, I am new to this whole bourbon thing. So I figured I should post up a pic of what I have on hand, now that I've acquired a few bottles. I've enjoyed everything I tried so far. Not one disappointment. At my age it is not very often I find something totally new to me, that I enjoy. And the Drambuie is always stocked, because....well just because.

You forgot to add PERIOD to the end of the statement, therefore your complaint lacks weight per the rules of this thread. lol

NOW THAT IS NOT FUNNY!!!

Good question! From the Law of Self Defense classes by Andrew Branca I remember discussing five elements needed for a legal self defense claim. They are as follows. Innocence Imminence Avoidance Reasonableness Proportionality If you didn't start the fight you are innocent. By showing your gun you could be perceived as threatening the other party or a third party could assume you are the aggressor. And you might prevent him from choosing you as his next victim. Slippery slope. If the other guy is casing you for a "possible future" attack it will be hard to convince a judge / jury that the attack was imminent. This rapidly changes when he starts walking toward you or follows you. The advice about looking for his buddy is good. If you have an opportunity for avoidance (get in car and drive away or run away), but instead consciously decided to stay in the area where you think the attack is about to happen, you are adding liability that could erode your self defense claim. Having limited mobility, escorting a family member, and being in a kill zone all detract from you ability to avoid the situation. TCA 39-11-611 is worth a read here to somewhat understand the law in TN. Reasonableness is the hardest of the five because it depends largely on the area from which the jury will be pulled that you are showing your gun in. More liberal could = less reasonable from our point of view and vice versa. You have no way to prove what this other person is thinking if they are only staring at you. Proportionality means you match lethal force paired against you with lethal force of your own with a caveat for disparity of force (multiple attackers, big attacker vs little victim, MMA fighter vs disabled...etc). Gun vs stare is not proportional. Gun vs walking at you isn't proportional unless he's a big dude and you are not and he's somehow someway threatening you in a way that you can prove in a court. Gun vs "Hey man, you got a dollar?" still isn't proportional. The race to 911 is real and I don't think it can be underestimated.

I just sharpened all of my kitchen knives and all of my wife's sewing and craft sizzors, observations? i freaking love this machine!

That certificate of participation is a thing of beauty.

My daughter just got from a cruise today and brought me some Dominican Republic whisky. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Doesn't it get hot carrying that matchlock in your pocket?

Give the "barrel select" a try. It's cheaper, and much better in my opinion.

Hell, if Cutty Sark is all you've ever tried, you might even be impressed with Glenlivet or Glenfiddich 12 year old Scotch, but do yourself a favor and try the other two I mentioned. Cheers! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Nope, I raised 3 exclamation points to your 1 period, so there, THAT TIME OF THE MONTH, PERIOD!!!

Picked up another Japanese whiskey. If you like a smokey flavor then you will like this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I want the original Bond gun and be good enough to hit the BG in the eyeball. Until then, I'll keep practicing and carrying 9mm. They're all still just pistol rounds. I will opine that some pistol calibers are more suited for LE; car glass / body panels and other barriers. For self defense / home defense 9mm SHOULD get the job done. Aim small, miss small my friends

I agree, period Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To quote Clemens.... “The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.”

Correct. If I were teaching students I would add this: Having been a Police Officer, and I’m sure those that have been one will agree; people don’t always tell the truth. There are two sides that are not always the truth. I don’t know how it works in Tennessee, but where I was I had discretion on a misdemeanor. I did not have discretion on a felony. Threatening someone with a gun was a felony. If the person was believable and there were no other witnesses or video around you would probably be going with me to jail. If they weren’t believable I could have a Command Officer or a Detective come to the scene and make the call. The truth will not always set you free. Do everything you can to get out of the situation without displaying a gun. However…. That’s just my opinion based on dealing with the public. As I said before; you can do anything you are ready to take responsibility for. (Because you will)

All I can say is that Sean Connery as James Bond (hats off everyone) fluctuated between a .32 and .380 ACP for several films and look at his body count.....I mean dead bad guys, not the other kind.

He said the best PERIOD! Ive gotta start closing my arguments like that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s the question he asked. “Prove otherwise” works both ways; by showing them a gun, the other person could call the Police and claim he pulled it. This didn’t happen; it was a question, so we don’t know how it would end. Flashing a weapon or pulling a weapon is a possible response. Without a direct threat it’s a bad idea and could very easily land you in jail. But you have to do whatever you are ready to take responsibility for. As a former Police Officer I will repeat the comment above about calling 911. If I feel the need to “show” someone a gun in any way shape or form; I am calling 911 and I am staying there until Officers arrive. The first person to call is the “victim” the second person is the “suspect”. I can’t count the number of people that I have arrested that probably would not have been arrested had the Officer at the scene had both sides of the story. They are standing there looking at your license plate; they can give a description of you, your vehicle, your gun, and how and where you carry it. Knock, Knock Knock… answer the door it’s the Police.

Oh, I agree. I have a bunch of handguns, and all my semis are 9mm. Even two of my revos will do 9mm. And two 9mm long guns. So there, that proves it, eh? - OS

Oh, fantastic. The one argument that can get more heated than "Trump: Greatest President Ever, or Jabroni?"

If you are carrying your oil soaked rag as a wick in your bottle of whiskey…yes.

Plenty for you to think about and have a plan. Tennessee has no laws against “brandishing”; they do have laws against assault. Would a reasonable person (that’s a juror or a Judge; not you) believe you are in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm? If so you are justified in either threatening them with your weapon; or shooting them. Someone giving you the evil eye or walking up on you without displaying a weapon at the pumps does not meet that level. Just because you have a gun doesn’t mean you will survive and it doesn’t mean everyone will fear you. Armed people, both good and bad are killed every day. Pulling your shirt or jacket back might scare off a bad guy. Or it might be an armed violent criminal that wants your vehicle and you just became a dead man walking because he now has the upper hand. If you pay at the pump, you have no reason to cross his path, get in your car, lock the doors and get the hell out of there. I’ll fight or take an azz whipping before I pull a gun on someone. But if someone threatens me with a weapon; I have no problem with using deadly force to save my life or the life of another. But at the end of the day whether you are an HCP holder, cop or citizen with a gun in your car, you have to be prepared to do whatever you need to so you can go home.

If I was being cased that hard I'd be looking for the guys partner... increasing my situational awareness rather than focusing on one potential threat, looking for the best escape route, etc.. Just having a weapon isn't a fight ender. Some may consider it an escallation, it may make you more of a target if there is a team working because they want your weapon. Lots of possibilities. I'd look into getting some additional training. There are some vendors on this site such as Randy Harris (cruel hand luke) that offer training that is well worth it. I was particularly interested in part of a class he taught that he called the "pre-fight negotiation". The best fight is the one you never have. Flashing your weapon and telegraphing your intentions may not be the best answer...

Depends on the manner in which you expose your weapon, it may be seen as brandishing by some and an overzealous LEO may agree if called. Personally, I would not show my weapon until I was ready to pull the trigger.

I have fallen in love with my Glock 21 gen 4, it's become my EDC, Such a nice shooter. It is a tank but I'm fine with it.

Thank you, I just opened the account. I will do that ASAP

The first gen frames aren't strong enough to hold that much awesome. True story.

I just (December) bought a PERFORMANCE CENTER M&P9L PRO SERIES C.O.R.E. SKU: 178058. I never I thought I would say this about and Smith & Wesson gun; but what a disappointment. I don’t believe this gun ever saw the inside of the Performance Center unless it was on a cart passing through. I have owned several M&P’s and right now have a full Size 40, Compact 40, Shield 40, and two M&P rifles besides this 9 I just got. My full size and compact are off the shelf LEO guns from 2009 and have far better triggers than this disappointment I just bought. Those of you here that know me know I am a S&W fan boy to the max; so this is hard to say. I wanted this gun to be a competition range gun with an optic. This gun has been back to S&W twice without me attempting to fire a shot, and it still has not been fired. I told Customer support it had a terrible trigger, had no Performance Center marking and was not in a Performance Center box. I told them there must be a mistake; this is no PC gun. I truly believed they had sent me the wrong gun. They had me send it in and returned it with paperwork that said “No repairs required”. I was pissed. This trigger feels like its rolling across a gravel parking lot. I emailed back asking for a supervisor to call me. Five days later I got a call. After informing him of the issue he suggested I send the gun in for the Performance Center to evaluate. I explained that I just got the gun back from having been there. I didn’t see what good sending it in again would do. He agreed and said he would look into it. I told him that if I couldn’t get a Performance Center gun; I would like a refund if possible. He said he didn’t have the authority to authorize that. He said he would talk to the Performance Center manager and get back with me the next day. 7 days later I emailed them that he had not called. Their response was: “I am sure he will be getting back to you. Probably this week.” 11 days later I knew I wasn’t going to hear anything and I sat down and wrote a letter documenting everything and mailed it to the CEO and the Firearms Director of Smith & Wesson. The day the letters arrived there I got a call from a Supervisor. He said he just came from a meeting with the Firearms Director after he got my letter. He said he would take care of my issues. He ask me to send the gun in again. He said they don’t mark “Performance Center” on these guns, they don’t come in performance center cases; but it is a Performance Center gun and should have a good trigger. He said I didn’t need to explain anything with the gun; it was coming directly to him and he would take it to the Performance Center. He also said my gun was missing the C.O.R.E. marking. He said he would get the gun fixed and send a Performance center case, and give me a range bag for my troubles. 22 days later they shipped the gun back. The work order said “won’t fire” (That was never the issue). It also said Evaluate/Repair Passed Range Testing. Same bad trigger; nothing was done to it. A couple of days later I got a S&W aluminum case and range bag. (NOT a Performance Center case.) I have heard a lot of people lately saying that S&W Customer Support had really gone bad. Having to spend a hundred or two on an Apex trigger for a new Smith & Wesson is ridiculous. If the Firearms Director at Smith & Wesson doesn’t have enough horsepower to get his guys to fix a problem; my chances are slim to none. I’m disappointed and disgusted. … and stuck with a gun I don’t want.

I've got one with the apex upgrade. I feel it's a necessary improvement on the pro series. I've had the performance center and core models, but I prefer the standard with the apex flat trigger. I never did like suppressor sights, couldn't get used to a red dot on top and porting wasn't necessary. For the money you can't beat it in my opinion. I prefer it to a Glock. This is the one that sits on my night stand.

Sure was nice of them to issue this chessy certificate to those that participated in the Operation Teapot test.

I'm turning 70 and got the lifetime permit this month... call me an optimist.

They reported they found his body. Sounds like he slipped. I suspect he hit his head, but not sure.