Leaderboard

I would like to offer a word of caution to folks like me who may be critical of policing practices. I've been around here long enough to see this board through various swings regarding law enforcement. I know TGO David has made his support of LE and his aims to have this board to be an inviting place for LE on multiple occasions very clear. Whenever the general mood of the board swings too far into an anti-LE direction, conversations get locked down, folks get banned and the topic becomes anathema. I implore folks to ensure that the criticisms they have to offer regarding LE are respectful, and relevant to Tennessee and/or the particular discussion at hand. I believe that the subject is an important one and discussion of it can be had here if done correctly. We have recently seen an explosion of news stories nationally regarding the wrongdoing of officers. Ultimately I think this is a good thing as it can help serve to reign in excesses in the LE culture that I think have been allowed to flourish in recent years. That doesn't mean we need to post every random story on the subject we come across. Please folks, let's not go too overboard here in this venue and cause another time frame where we aren't allowed to broach the issue. I don't think anyone is well served by that. I am admittedly one of the most critical members of this community of police and policing practices, but I still think we can have this conversation in a reasonable manner based in logic and reason without needless bashing of either side.       ***Not trying to overstep my bounds, or play mod here with this general word of caution. I just don't want to needlessly wear the patience of the administration on this subject or see anyone banned in a heated moment for ill-advised statements.***

I really appreciate your words, sir. I don't mind criticism and I'll always try to offer a perspective from the other side of the badge as best as I can, even in the case of very inflammatory incidents that have a lot of people riled up. But 68 guys in my outfit died in my 28 years in the field and derision is something that goes down hard with me for that reason. So thank you very much for your insightful comments. You'll probably notice I've eliminated my avatar, signature, and pared my profile down to nothing. I was leaving TGO for the reasons you mention. I'll put them back tomorrow and stick around. Thanks again.

Success in Indiana. My buddy and I tagged out on the opening day. Had a great trip.

Well I finally did it. It's a 1/4 circle 10 small frame glock lower with their modified bolt. Cmmg pdw upper. 8.5" barrel keymod rail. Only got to shoot it 5 times, but so far so good. Bho works as it shoot. Parts kit is a spikes enhanced lpk. Not crazy about the ambi safety's as it rubs my trigger finger. Also not sold on the keymod over a standard rail. Now just gotta settle on sights and optics.

and it is all Erik88's fault. Ever since he posted the pics of his Ruger Night Watchman I have been keeping an eye out for one. Picked this one up yesterday. Can't wait to get it to the range. [URL=http://s196.photobucket.com/user/kahrman/media/IMG_1793_zpsiyhs39gr.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s196.photobucket.com/user/kahrman/media/IMG_1792_zpswkzlbxlu.jpg.html][/URL]

I think all of this falls under the general title of "people." The things you bring up here are true enough, but are far from being common only to law enforcement. Different managers are willing to go to different lengths to get rid of a bad apple, as you point out here, but in agencies subject to Civil Service rules and other contracts, it's pretty hard to get away with this stuff. In small agencies having no such rules however, all bets are off. If they aren't subject to labor rules, then the frailties of men tend to rule supreme and that can lead to some pretty obnoxious goings on. In my experience, once you give the authorities power to get rid of the bad apples, then they start using it against the good ones they may not like, so the unions act to restrict this power and provide some job protection. But once you do this, once you deny them this power, then the bad apple goes back to the top of the food chain. So there is no good answer to all this stuff. You just have to do the best you can with what you have to work with and go to work somewhere else if it gets too deep to wade in.   As for protecting other cops, nobody wants to be a rat and cops are no different than other people in that regard.  After all, Joe Paterrno covered for a serial child molester for years and he never wore a badge in his life, nor did all the church officials who were deeply steeped in religion and nonetheless covered up the same thing on a massive basis for years..........and it goes on and on and on. "Coverup" is one of the favorite words in journalism when it comes to affairs political as well. A cop after all is a guy who was looking for a job and found one. No special angelic virtues were imparted upon his appointment and he is subject to all the frailties of other men having authority and responsibility.They are expected to live up to a higher standard and most of them do, but some don't and some supervisors and managers don't do their jobs in keeping the bad ones out either. All I can say is it ain't right, it's just the way it is, and you just have to keep on truckin' to make it as right as you can. End of Epistle.

Yes, it was and is a very dangerous job, and the figure of 68 is correct. All were in the line of duty. The size of the Department was 5,500 uniformed of all ranks with about 4,700 on the road during my years. Total officers killed in the history of the department since 1929 are 230, with the lion's share of them since the '60's. In the 22 years since my retirement another 49 officers have been killed in the line of duty.   I won't be offended if you want to go to the site and count them yourself. My math in my old age ain't nothing to write home about, so feel free. It also gives the dates and causes, which may also be interesting to you. If you'd like to double check my addition, count the deaths between March, 1965 and December, 1992, which should be 68, and from then to today, which should be another 49.   The site doesn't show disability retirements, which were running around 80% during my career. That means that a new officer only has two chances in ten of retiring with his health intact. It's probably higher now, and the Department also has picked up a couple of thousand more officers since I left. Here's the link to the Officer Down Memorial Page: https://www.odmp.org/agency/504-california-highway-patrol-California   My username is my old radio call sign. I was the senior Sergeant in the region, so my call sign was S-1. I simply spelled it out as "Essone." hope all of this helps. I think a lot of guys will be surprised at the figures.

Well wife came home late last night. I had a sneaking suspicion she was buying me a gift. Low and behold she got me a Glock 29. Ever since reading TGO David's post about 10mm underwood I've been thinking about getting one. I've really enjoyed my 26 so I thought a 29 would be a good fit. So far I love it. Gen 4 feels great in my hand and point perfect. Now to pick up some ammo and have a little range time!

I ordered this 1911 nearly 2 years ago, I honestly forgot about it my dealer just got it yesterday and I still have to pay it off but I am sure this will be one of my best 1911 I ever owned and it should replace my old SRP as my favorite 1911 I have pictures and will post them when I can but the internet is too damn slow where I am, I just had to share this news as I am so excited about this pistol :pleased:

  That first shotgun blast with 00 buck put 9 rounds of .30 downrange already.   - OS

So, why are bad cops tolerated?

And just for the record, nobody hates bad cops like the good ones do.

Like DaveTN, I too am a former policeman from another state as well as military, and I am extremely proud of my service in both venues.   I recognize that this is TGO David's site and that he makes the rules whether I agree with them or not.   The problem is the definition of "Cop Bashing" is pretty subjective. I consider some A-hole coming on here and saying that all cops suck for _____ reason is cop bashing that shouldn't be tolerated, but I do not consider discussion of a particular cop's actions as such. As far as my former cop life I still have a pretty thick skin about it, and if a police officer doesn't have thick skin I suggest that they find another profession. You work a highly demanding position that can also be VERY visible and certainly scrutinized, but it is a profession that YOU chose. To be intolerant of criticism of some other officer's action is pretty silly in my opinion.   I respect LEOs on this forum who stand-up to critics for righteous actions and condemn the unrighteous actions. I have no respect for those who keep quiet or leave the forum butt-hurt because discussion, (and even anger), over an unrighteous act takes place.   But let's put this in perspective: how many times over the years have I seen posts on this forum insulting my Christian beliefs? I'm a technical sales rep for a large IT company in Nashville, so how often do I see insults towards salesmen in general and my company? Do I deserve less protection from this than LEOs do on this forum? Am I less valued as a member?   Food for thought.

  It's funny how those so-called "progressive elitists" who will label someone as racist if you criticize Obama, homophobe if you believe in a man/woman marriage, islamiphobe if you believe most terrorist attacks are carried out by radical Muslims today, find it acceptable to pre-judge an entire group of people they don't know personally because they believe in the right to own and carry a firearm for personal protection. Judging and having disdain for a group of people because of a legal personal choice is simple bigotry, no different than to say all young black men are gang bangers or all Muslims are terrorists. Of course in their sanctimonious mind they have a superior intellect over every other human on the planet so you can't make them realize they are BIGOTS.

I disliked you for the Soft Tail, I despised you for the Wilson Beretta and now I hate you for the GI.  Why do you do this to us poor plebs?  I bet you have a great mustache to twirl while laughing at us.

If only that were true! We'd be millionaires. LOL he's a stinker but he deserves it. We were talking about 10mm ammo the other night after finishing The Walking Dead and he got a bit enthusiastic. It just got gears rolling. Yesterday at 2 I decided it was gonna happen. I settled on a Glock 29 (I might have had myself in mind too) and I made it to Mt. Juliet from Cookeville in a hour, purchase in 15 minutes an back home in a hour. Good planning, a lead foot and luck. :D like I said, he's a stinker, but he deserves anything and everything.

When I showed this to my wife, she almost wet her pants. http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/local-mississippi-news-airs-most-awkward-interview-ever-042215

Picked up a CZ 75 B tonight at Bud's in Sevierville (it's probably not good for me that this place is only a little over a hour away...). Both Mechanically and Jonnin graciously offered to let me come down to Chattanoga and take a look at theirs, but from everything they said and what I've read about this gun the last couple of days, I couldn't wait. Had been thinking about the 2075 RAMI, but those are hard to find. And after holding the 75 in in my hand, it was a done deal. To me, this is just one of those classic guns that I couldn't leave without. So thanks to my Chattanooga friends for turning me on to the CZ brand - probably won't be my last. Something about a metal gun. WIth my Sig p238 now for pocket carry, I could easily see me getting rid of all my polymer eventually...

Re: military grade weapons I am in support of law enforcement, local all the way up to federal, to only have weapons that civilians can legally own without tax stamps. Police don't need select fire weapons.

I also am interested in the military grade weapons comment. I work for a smaller department just outside of Memphis. I see AK47's and SKS rifles. I'm glad I have an AR15.

don't mess with me Cooper,  I'll see you Sunday in Manchester.  Better bring your A game son!!

Some of you guys in Mid Tenn already know me....the rest of you guys better watch the Hell out...I'm on the way Up!!!

Ok I think people come up and chat with you because you're such a heck of a nice guy.

  Not when you have a shotgun handy :)

Congratulations, on your Hoosier turkey.

This. It isn't about the spread, so much, and certainly not about the 'you can just point it in the general direction' bs. The 'cone of death' is pretty much fiction at those ranges - which isn't a bad thing as I want to hit my intended target, not everything else around the target. Instead, it is about the decisive outcome of hitting a deadly threat with, as OS said, nine pellets of roughly .30 in one pull of the trigger.

  I don't think you realize that being middle of the road is probably best these days -- hence Bob and Lamar.   I'd think that if the "guns in parks" issue were decided by state wide referendum, it would probably fail.   If I had to bet, I'd go with him not signing it, just like the changes to preemption bill last session. That's the best straddle-the-fence strategy to hedge his bet.   - OS

  Well... you gotta be able to work a shotgun. :) Lots of dead critters to my credit, and they were a lot smaller and a lot faster than your basic hood rat. I'm a better shot with a long gun than a pistol. 00 buck is devastating if you give them the full payload. You are lucky to stop somebody with a single 9mm round.   To each his own. I normally only have pistols lying around. But, there's no way one will be as effective as a shotgun.

  See? You're beginning to see the "progressivism" in its true light. :up: Modern Liberalism is truly a mental disability-- not at all grounded in pragmatic reality. Groupthink only enforces prejudicial tendencies and is but one step away from a lynch mob.

  why is that?   legal is legal isn't it?

Well I have no intent on running a rap sheet or going beyond due diligence by asking "Any reason why I shouldn't sell you this gun?"   All I'm asked was what are the legal requirements....

For those thinking about training with Randy but still not 100% sure, I'll try to cover that angle...   This was a training day which is more of a skills assessment vs. a "formal" class   Day starts off with admin / safety briefing then on to fundamentals and dry work (grip, trigger, draw stroke, etc)   Randy includes his abbreviated version of PESTS EAT FAST,  complete dissertation here: https://homeguntraining.wordpress.com/2013/08/04/dealing-with-pests/   I personally like both the "pre-shootin" stuff; fundamentals review with a professional allows for immediate correction. Whether the full version or abbreviated, PESTS EAT FAST is a stark reminder that a BG will get as close as possible to assault you or your loved ones.   Attendees gear varied from modular belt systems to minimalist EDC set-ups. It's not a tactical fashion show - have a good belt and holster, comfortable clothes, hat / eyes / ears, an extra mag or 3 and ammo you are pretty well good to go.   The rain brought an interesting dynamic with extra cover garments and a sloppy deck. Learned to work with extra cover and I believe it was Timcar86 who brought up drawstrings and holstering. Randy gives out no prizes for fastest to re-holster and I think we've all seen the Youtube videos where a frog was caught in a trigger guard while holstering and BANG...The muddy deck made you think about stable / secure footing as you made the decision to draw.   I think JReedEsq rubbed off on me - I too mucked up my mags. Since I carry what is considered a military and law enforcement duty sidearm, I wiped my mags on my pants to get as much mud out as possible and keep on going...I am pleased to announce no feed/eject malfs and I don't think anyone else had any issues with their pistols. (CZ, G-lock, Sig, Springfield, Smith)   I noticed as my mags / mag well got gritty, I couldn't "cheat" and rely on gravity for my mag to free-fall, first time I've actually seen the need to strip a mag...good exposure to the reason one should develop this habit.   The FAM Exam...Everyone in the class is watching...is the shooter ready...3 second delay...exhale...BEEP...shoot...repeat...failed to qualify...this time.   Cool parts...seeing former training partners, making new friends and putting screen names with real people, realizing what an interesting cross-section of folks show up (novice to expert shooters, health care providers, educators, professionals, service providers and the oddfellows like me and Prag...   The Randy Review - low key, non-type-A personality, qualified to teach (dude can actually do what he is teaching) life-long learner/student, king of the analogy; I would consider him a Professional Expert. Having exclusively trained with Randy since 2010 (yikes) I am a fan, consider him a friend and consider myself a client...so I am biased.   I hope all the attendees felt the event was a valuable investment of resources and time, I know we are trying to schedule some stuff up for the fall, but we can discuss summer events...   I thank you all for allowing me to open the Sunday session with my favorite prayer!   Dear Jesus,   Please make us an instrument of your peace,where there is hatred let us sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; and where there is sadness, joy!   Grant that we may not so much seek to be consoled as to console, to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love.   For it is giving that we receive, in pardoning that we are pardoned and in dying that we are born to eternal life!   AMEN

  Man you can have some of ours! Blackbirds and crows have about taken over in our neighborhood. And plenty of them ol Tennessee Turkey buzzards flying around. Got up one morning and there were a half dozen walking around in the front yard.   I just had to run them off.   All kinds of songbirds and doves that we feed. Or at least attempt to. The squirrels seem to get at most of the food put out for them. And there ain't no such thing as squirrel-proof feeders!   But on the good side, we do get to watch several Coopers Hawks fly around and hunt crawdads in the spring. And that is fun.   They will sometimes get a water snake and even try for a squirrel now and then.

And I am much kinder and nicer when discussing the issue; I learned that lesson the hard way a long time ago. We have discussions from time to time on this forum about issues that really don’t matter much; traffic tickets, how a cop handled a traffic stop, disarming someone during a stop. But what we see going on now with cops is really troubling. When there are riots over a cop shooting a dirtbag that has tried to kill him or someone else it’s wrong. When a cop shoots a person that is no threat it’s wrong. I served in the military and have two honorable discharges. I also served as a Police Officer. I am as proud of my Police service as I am my military service and make no bones about it. Having cops here gives the opportunity of getting answers from those that will be responding to the calls. I was not a cop in this state and have relied on them to provide answers about how things are done here. Procedures can also change from county to county and city to city. I have said this before and I will say it again; if you want to know what it’s like go be a cop, or if you don’t want it as a career go be an auxiliary officer. I guarantee it will change your outlook. And I will also guarantee that even if you decide not to stay with it; it will be an experience you will be glad you had. We have some new folks here that are prior LE; I would say to them that as they have already discovered there are haters here. Don’t take the bait to turn it into an attack, that’s what they want. Most people here are pretty intelligent and can see what’s going on.

Congrats on a very nice pistol. Let us know how it does on the range.

Trade you a sack full of pocket knives for it!

GI guns turn me on. I bet that thing is going to be awesome.

Giggity! Excellent choice!

Got my first one last week! 10 inch beard and one inch spurs. [URL=http://s898.photobucket.com/user/Crosshairs11/media/e36e2373-d691-4752-8108-298a61c712e6_zpscpeopvht.jpg.html][/URL]

Doesn't get better than GI as far as am concerned. Nice gun!

I bet that little dog barks!

I can't believe you went there. JTM Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

First bird of the season (Jake). Harvested late afternoon today. Arrived on my hunting property and there was a flock of 12 cruising around. No time for decoys and they weren't responding to the calls so I stalked them as close as I could and then hit the ground and army crawled another 100+ yards and was able to take a shot only about 20-30yds away. The grass was just tall enough that I was able to crawl without being noticed. Was an exciting hunt. Started the minute I arrived. 16.8lbs and 3.5in beard. Was a good size and I've pretty much determined that there are no Tom's on the property after several weeks of hunting. Have yet to see any but a pack of 9 jakes were cruising the property when I got there.

  I wish there was a waiting period to become a resident of the state and an even longer waiting period to vote in local elections. I have noticed the same thing as well. I have talked to NY transplants and they are talking about using lawsuits to make Tennessee more like NYC. If they like NYC so much why not just move back?

I have so many cali transplants in my area. Only 1 out of the 5 i know are worthly of living in tn. They whine about what cali has become and then advocate the same junk that destroyed where they came come. Progressive trash

Well that's something you don't hear everyday! I bet that was a sight to behold. :rofl:

I'm a California native who has lived in Tennessee for nineteen years, but I still have family out there and try to stay up on what the idiotic state legislature is doing on gun issues. If you want information about a gun issue in the state, California gun owners have a really busy gun forum called www.calguns.net.  It has over 207,000 members, with over 27,000 active members. It is really fast moving - I listed some mags for sale with them and my WTS post moved three pages back in only 24 hours.   My experience is that If the State or local governments do anything or even propose anything detrimental to California gun owners, you'll hear the howling the loudest on that website.

  I have a steel gun to show my friends. I have a plastic gun to show my enemies :)   When I was young, there was no such thing as a plastic gun... no shit.

I hear a lot of "nobody notices open carry", "you could carry a howitzer and most wouldn't notice", etc. I think most of those folks are actually "almost" carrying concealed, with service size heater or smaller tight to side with at least a shirt covering half of it or more.   Carrying a gat completely open with tucked in shirt and no jacket or whatever is going to be noticed, simple as that. I know because I've done it, and have gotten that attention. By what overall percentage depending on size of the thing and whatnot is debatable, but doesn't matter to me if it's only 1 in 20, I simply don't want the attention.   I also hear the "it's so much more comfortable" and "most expedient way to deploy" claims, and there's a lot of truth in that -- however, whether you mean it as such or not, a completely exposed roscoe is also an attention getting statement. And gawd knows based on the appearance of some folks I see doing it, not one that conveys a positive image to the average John Q in any way, either. (I'll include myself in that category at times, btw).   All that being said, of course I support your right to do it. But I'll stay in gray man mode myself, for a variety of reasons.   - OS

oh yeah,  forgot this.  Clearly 1911's are top shelf and Glocks are generic plastic fantastic pistolas.