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Wow, this pretty quickly went from a pretty decent discussion about general purpose rifles into gun store commando prattle.   I'm looking for a 13 shot .45ACP pistol that weighs less than 12 ounces, fits in a pants pocket, and has soft recoil and a really good trigger.  Oh, I'm not looking to spend more than about $250...   :squint:

Wait until they hear about the ultra-flammable untraceable arson fluid that you can literally buy by the gallon at nearly every corner in your town... without even giving your name!!!      :rofl:

Absolutely a case of fishing for a cop. The key part of the equation y'all are missing is that it is entirely up to the cop whether or not he gets hooked. If the cop acts within the limits and scope of his duties everyone goes on their way and the douche is just a douche. If the officer oversteps his limits, he gets himself into trouble or the agency on the hook for a payout and the douche gets the smug satisfaction of being right, and possibly wealthier. The lesson to takeaway from this is for cops to act within their limits. Yes, they have a difficult job. I don't think anyone denies that. It is a difficult job on purpose.

Kyle, it seems your request for suggestions has turned into an argument to convince others of your views. There are a lot of great options out there that fit your need for an inexpensive SHTF rifle. If you truly want to hear the other's opinions you might do better just taking in what they are suggesting instead of attempting to tear them down.    I have run across a lot of knowledgeable guys on the forums here at TGO. Whether it be an AR platform, levergun, M1, bolt action, etc I am sure many can speak from experience about firearms they either currently own or have owned in the past, or that they may have used during military service or on the job as an leo. To effectively make use of this vast knowledge one may have to set aside his own views for a minute and consider what is being said. "Wisdom is the reward you get for a lifetime of listening when you'd have preferred to talk." Doug Larson.   Good luck with your quest for a .308 SHTF rifle.

Another case of refusing to cooperate and giving the Officers a rash of crap! Answer the questions and get on with your life. Same old crap, Cop Fishing!   DaveS

pretty much all true.  Of course make no mention of the party that initiated the loss of those freedoms, that might not fit in here.

I'll be avoiding shopping in stores like the plague. A few years ago i got my hands on a discounted GPS. I was all happy about it until i saw the line.... then i realized i'd rather pay $30 just to avoid standing in that line for 4 hours.   Online shopping for me only!

Wo. No wonder I can't get any work done.

This thread reminds me of the saying about cars. Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick two because you cant have all three. You can have all the characteristics you want for a rifle but it wont be cheap. Or you can compromise on something else. If you could have it all, everybody would have it. Also, Mad Max was a movie not real life or an accurate look into the future.

Well, That went well, didn't it?

So here is the update.  I had some email communication with a fellow in Spike's customer service department.  After a couple of delays, he sent me a return label and RMA number.  I sent the complete upper with BCG, copies of email correspondence including that associated with the previous RMA, photos of the malfunction posted here, and explanation of what I had tried to fix the problem including types of mags, ammo, etc.  Two days later, I received an email from the customer service rep stating that he hand-carried the upper to their armorer who, upon reading the correspondence, built a complete new upper for me and installed my LWRC quad-rail on the new upper.  I received the shipment today and it included 7 fired casings that do not have the scratches/gouges on them like the ones I got in the old upper receiver.  I asked if they knew what the problem was, they said they didn't bother to do any sort of diagnostics.  I am very confident that the feed ramps on the other barrel extension were not machined properly because these look much more flared than on the previous upper.  They also tossed in a couple of decals and a American flag velcro patch, which was nice.  The only problem is that they didn't swap out the engraved dust cover I had on the previous upper, but that is a very minor problem and I'll take credit for that because I didn't specify it was installed on the upper I returned.  Hopefully I'll be able take it out and shoot it this weekend to confirm it works properly.   I'm glad to see that Spike's has finally tried to make things right.  I'll give a range report soon.

You touch that FAL off inside a house and you won't be hearing squat either.

  Dave, I think that is a slippery slope your traveling down with the recorder.  Not tremendously different from the leftest argument that carrying a gun means your seeking confrontation.  Personally i don't see the need for me to carry a recorder, but i can understand why some feel that it is in there best interest to record conversations with LE.   I wish i could say that there are no dishonest police officers, but we both know that that is not the case.  Additionally it assists in preventing the he said she said that can come from encounters with non LE, like the security guard in this case.  Again, i agree that i dont find it personally necessary, but it is not a guaranteed indicator that someone is seeking confrontation either.

Situational awareness. And they better hope they succeed. Sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

Bury it, stuff it in a yard bag and trash it, burn it, toss it in a lake, grind it up and compost it, .....

After hearing his story and seeing the subsequent outcome, I've considered getting a recorder.  Not because of how I carry (which is 99% of the time concealed), but because it seems like this would be the only way to prove your side of the story in any situation  involving an arrest, detention, etc.  You shouldn't have to prove your side, but that's what it seems like sometimes.  (Like those numerous people who had large amounts of cash confiscated by Tennessee cops, and then had to prove they weren't drug dealers).    I have not gone out and bought a recorder, but I have put a recorder widget in an easy to locate spot on my phone.  I don't keep it on, but I have decided that any interaction with a representative of the government will be recorded.  Its sad, but I have heard numerous instances where the citizen's word was given less credence than the government official.   I'm not looking to sue anyone, I just want to protect myself.     And all the audio is posted on the first page of this thread:  http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/showthread.php?t=237726

I feel life my life is scripted by Rod Serling everytime I read crap like this.

Then in her golden years, you can just tell her you got cable for her and she's watching Animal Planet.  :)

Because it's in the 5th Amendment, and back when they started blocking felon's rights there were very few felony's.  You had to do something bad, and you often spent your entire life in prison....  Rape, Murder, Armed robbery...  all of which were life without parole or death sentences back in the day.   I keep asking the question, if we don't trust them enough to own a firearm, why on earth are they loose on the streets with us?  

  When are they gonna regulate stupid? It's a helluva lot more dangerous than a box of Tannerite.

she broke up the band

Scavengers probably scattered the carcas around. There's probably another pile of bones nearby. Super nice find!

Not going to be much time at that distance. I would think step 1 is to have adequate medical supplies on hand and make sure that at least one or two people in the office are trained in first aid. This is probably a good idea in any event. I like the ideas for barriers. I'm sure someone probably makes desks with flip-up ones or maybe a desk pad with a sheet of steel embedded. As to a weapon, I'm not sure. On you person seems likely the best bet. It increases access time but it will always be with you. Say if you were in the bathroom or elsewhere in the building and the shooting started... Some of this will be dependent on the layout of your offices and other factors. Of course, nobody says you have to have just one. Peejman's suggestion of an ejector seat is clearly ridiculous. A button under the desk that opens a trapdoor to a pit of sharks is a much better idea.

If you already know so much, why are you asking for suggestions? $300 probably won't get you a reliable rifle with the characteristics you've named. You might consider saving some more money and getting a Springfield M1a or a Steyr Scout rifle. Buy all the ammo you think you need to single handedly whip whatever army or mob you are planning for. I'm not sure where you plan to "scrounge for ammo" but most people I know who own it wouldn't be very receptive to your idea.   I'm always entertained by the new guys who know more than the rest of us. How old are you? Late teens I'm guessing.

I guess it worked out for him, huh? It seems like here lately that that's a little game everyone wants to play. Refuse to show ID, refuse to answer LEO's questions and start the cameras rolling! Some folks think they'll just drop dead if they had a good encounter with LE. And at the same time, cry that their rights are being violated if the LEO was video taping them for his protection. What's good for one is good for the other right? I just don't agree with all this damn recording of LEO's. Find another hobby like recording wildlife or something.   DaveS

If it were me, I'd look at these two as well as the 686:   Smith Model 66 Smith Model 19

I am sorry to say that I have no patch , but I commend you gentlemen for your service ; especially today.

If you question our motivations for stripping you of your 1st, 4th, 5th & 6th amendment rights then the terrorists have won!

It would have been racist to do otherwise, then the media would have been calling it a justified attack.

I'm Irish. I've got a hard freaking head. Little SOBs better bring a 2x4 or a wrench or something. That's some really sick stuff there. When we were kids, not even that long ago for me mind you, we used to fight EACH OTHER!! Going up to some random person and cracking their head open? It's just kind of a bitch move all the way around. I doubt you see less than 3 at a time doing this, they need an 8 person posse just to sucker punch someone. And for everyone out there packing heat, now you know it's only a game. Next time someone out of a group of people clocks you one out of nowhere, make sure to remember they don't want to hurt you, it's only a game. Defending yourself would be racist.

At the night match all shooters will be required to have a glow stick on their person. I will have some for sale there or you can bring your own. The Woods Walk part of the range is still needing some work after being washed out, so that stage has been scrubbed. Round count will be around 140 now. Also adding a par time to the steel stage of 45 seconds.

The Hendersonville show is definitely more open with more room between aisles. I feel crowded at the M'boro shows even when it's not. In terms of types of dealers and merchandise I would rate them about the same.

I would like to hear the audio also.   DaveS

I don’t know what GA law is and I really don’t want you to explain it to me here, but do you think you would have been arrested if you had your ID with you and cooperated with the cops? Have you posted the audio of the conversation?

But my question to you Sir; why did you leave your ID in your car, but brought your recorder on a walk instead? Was it for a possible police encounter? Were the deer mating and you wanted it recorded? Were the birds singing? Do you always bring a recorder on your walks? I don't get it. Why? I'm sorry Sir, but I smell a rat. You may be right, and I applaud you for that. I've been wrong before, been right a few times...but hey, I'm up to a challenge! But a rat smells like a rat. The recorder part really bugs me.   DaveS

racist -> self reliant -> gun owner ->conservative -> republican -> racist   Circular logic or circle jerk? 

Im personally waiting to finally bag a mutant-zombie-biker-man-bear-pig

Years ago I used to keep a quarter for a payphone in my wallet - but when's the last time you saw one of those?   These days I use this on the back of my phone - license, HCP, one card and a couple business cards.  I've been using it for a year or so, and just don't find myself needing more since all the affinity/membership cards can be scanned off your phone these days

Or next year....12-13-14

Well if its coming from the ladies.... .... ..

I've made gun transactions in public parking lots out in the open where I know I've been seen. Heck, I even did one where a cop was about 50 feet away and never received any negative attention. I do keep on guard for it, and it try to keep it discrete though. I think it's a good thing for non gun people to see that we can be responsible and not just jump to conclusions and be afraid I will shoot up Wal-Mart if they see me in the parking lot with a Mosin Nagant. But I would never advertise it and shove it anyone's face, or try to make a point by OC'ing. I read a book my Massad Ayoob where he supports OC, but states (and I paraphrase) that there is no reason to "scare the horses" and cause a scene. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  It makes perfect sense! Insurance is in the business of "risk" vs. profit. As a business owner, what's the most scum bags can get during an armed robbery? A couple cases of cigarettes, rolls of lottery tickets, some liquor and maybe a couple hundred bucks in cash.   A business owner who authorizes / condones personal carry of their employees opens themselves up to a variety of expensive court proceedings and lawsuits for the actions of the employees. Even if an employee successfully stops a violent robbery and his life was in jeopardy and kills the BG(s), he will be sued by he momma. And if an innocent bystander is hit by an errant bullet, the owner(s) are still named and responsible financially.   Insurance is almost mandatory for business's these days and they dictate the terms of the policy and set the rules and regulations.   So, it's up to the individual employee to determine his / her own risk whether to dismiss company policy for their own personal protection and carry, and risk discovery and termination.   I myself prefer the latter.

^^^^^ That about covers it! :) Good job!

I used to drive local delivery, I never asked about whether I could carry or not. I just stopped at my car on the way out of the warehouse, picked up my lunch cooler and pistol, and then at the end of the day, stopped by my car and dropped off my lunch cooler and pistol before I drove back into the warehouse.  that simple. don't ask, don't tell.

Given that you'll be seated, the shoulder holster seems like the best option.  Just be careful with muzzle discipline, and practice drawing and re-holstering a lot.    Be very thoughtful about where and how you sit in relation to the client.    I like the ballistic vest inside a briefcase idea.   How about an ejector seat for you clients?

The caller apparently didn't pass math class.

Shot a big doe today. It was good to let the smoke pole loose lol.

Part of me still says that carrying a recorder around everywhere I go is paranoid behavior at the least and surreptitious at the most. If one only carries a recorder when they OC, it still seems mostly surreptitious to me. I've never wanted/needed to OC bad enough to "risk" winding up in a situation like this. My personal choice is to carry concealed and avoid the hassle. In all fairness, though, there are those that feel like carrying a gun at all "risks" winding up in a situation of some kind. Likewise, these types think carrying a gun for protection is paranoid too. Either way, the attitude I choose to display to the officer seems to me like it's going to have the most effect on how the confrontation goes. Right or wrong being nice instead of insisting on being right is good karma and goes a long way. I'll choose not being a test case, not being hassled, and not making the news over being right 9 times out of 10. YMMV

The ones I bought were labelled. I looked up what it was and it seems safe enough. I still need to pressure wash them out and make a stand for them. Hopefully the apocalypse will wait a month or two.

If you want to see him go nuts; send him a link to this thread.