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Randy Weaver never once fired a shot. Neither did his surviving children or his wife. Issuing a warrant for the arrest of a person who didn't show up to court on a date that he wasn't told to show up on, then executing that warrant with armed commandos running around the property is not the preferred technique, especially when there is zero evidence regarding the original charge other than the testimony of an incredibly unreliable convict who was tasked to entrap a man on a BS law in the first place. It was still never proven that he ever shortened any shotgun barrel, which I don't believe he did. But if he had, how can anyone with an ounce of reason see this as an acceptable response. He was getting railroaded so he told the Feds to pound sand, and the end result was a dead son and wife, yet it was Randy Weaver who was supposed to have the level head here? Not our public servants?

While sitting on the dove field today I had the opportunity to talk at length with TWRA officer Mike Murdock, Robertson Co. During the course of our conversation, the topic came up of a dove hunter inadvertently shooting the wrong species. Officer Murdock stated that he understood that it's usually just a mistake, but that he does write tickets for it. He feels that, as a hunter, you have the responsibility of being able to positively identify the species you are hunting. I agree, and this is also especially true when duck hunting.    As we were talking, a kid, probably 16, shot a bull bat by mistake. It dove into the standing corn. The officer and several others saw what happened. Officer Murdock shock his head in disbelief and headed off into the corn to attempt to recover the bird. We were packing up to leave and drove off before they came out of the corn, but I am sure the kid got a citation, and rightly so.    I have seen it happen many times on dove fields. Swallows, larks, starlings, kestrel hawks, and now bull bats, all fall pray to untrained hunters. I was hunting today with a broken leg, on crutches, really just to supervise the two kids I had out hunting with me. I don't have any doubt that my kid hunts safe and smart. She has had it drilled into her since before she ever went afield. I guess I just don't understand how a hunter makes these mistakes. Why don't they take the same due caution?   We also had a young woman shoot at a low bird that was between us and her. Thankfully we were just far enough apart that we didn't get peppered. Her husband walked over and explained to her not to shoot at low birds. She didn't do it again. I am sure it was a case where no one had explained the situation to her. However, it was a situation that could have ended with another hunter with a face full of 8 shot. I can't imagine taking a new hunter out and not stressing the importance of safe shooting beforehand.    Please, if you take a new hunter out, make sure you take the time to teach them the importance of being a safe and responsible hunter. Don't be responsible for creating another "Bubba" hunter that doesn't respect the sport.      BTW, Officer Murdock seemed like a helluva nice guy. Glad to have met him today. 

As was put forth by an Arab ambassador last week, "There has to be some additional motivation for the Obama administration to act now.  I mean, excuse me, but where the f*** was your outrage over the last year as more than 100,000 people were killed?  Why the outrage now over an additional 1,000?  He must have some other strategic objective."

There was so much wrong with what happened both leading up to and during Ruby Ridge that it's too much for a forum post but the whole thing started over Randy Weaver's neighbor being pissed about losing a civil lawsuit and rather than paying the judgment, making completely untrue accusations against Weaver.   Moreover, both the internal 1994 Ruby Ridge Task Force Report and the public 1995 Senate subcommittee report on Ruby Ridge criticized the rules of engagement as unconstitutional. Let's not also forget that the surviving members of the Weaver family filed a wrongful death suit. To avoid trial and a possibly higher settlement, the federal government awarded Randy Weaver a $100,000 settlement and his three daughters $1 million each in August 1995. In the out-of-court settlement, the government did not admit any wrongdoing in the deaths of Sammy and Vicki Weaver.   To put it bluntly, Randy Weaver is not to blame for what happened before or during the siege of Ruby Ridge and anyone who tries in any way to say Randy Weaver was responsible for any of it and/or support the thugs with badges that were there is simply refusing to let the facts get in the way of opinion and wishful thinking - the only people that should be in jail are the thugs with the badges.

Guys, I am now an employee (part time; better than sitting making NOTHING!) at Sumner Gun and Supply in Gallatin. Not sure of the scheduling as yet, but I will keep you posted.   Hope when I do get the schedule squared away, some of ya will come by and say hi!

[URL=http://s987.photobucket.com/user/cwillard1983/media/paigebeard_zps95ade200.png.html][/URL] My Daughter

I think when our enemies are fighting each other we should stay the $#%&^ out of it!

I absolutely agree....a LOT of people should have gone to jail and still be there for both Ruby Ridge and Waco including lot's of "higher-ups" than just those who were on site.  Murder is murder regardless of whether one is wearing a badge or "just following orders".

Since we've stirred this hornet's nest up a bit, so to speak, i think folks need to bear some human nature things in mind.    The first is this; you are what you are.... .  If you are no good, it will soon show up if you are given enough power and lee-way.  That's exactly what happened with the Randy Weaver thing.     It got several people killed, some of 'em murdered (...i think...); all over a "failure to appear in court" and shortening two single shot shotguns 1/4 inch under the 18 inch minimum decreed by law.  There wuz one reason and one reason alone, that a US Attorney and the gubmt fooled with this; and that is that they wanted to make an "example" out of Randy Weaver.... . My guess is that it wuz to help the political aspirations of whoever the US Attorney in that territory wuz; or, worse, yet; to send a message to anyone who would defy or ignore Uncle Sam that the consequences of ignoring him are very deadly and final...     Never believe the fairy tale that says that all gubmt servants are selfless patriots.   Some of 'em would be accessories to murder in order to feather their nests; and would cover their tracks and withhold evidence while doin it; just like they did in the Weaver case.  Take a look at what happened in Florida the other day...   There are apparatchiks in the gubmt at all levels that will do most anything to either get what they want or cover for what they have. Ergo, the evidence tampering in the Weaver case.   These apparatchiks have willing accomplices who will plead that "they were just doin their jobs" when they are confronted with wrongdoing... That brings us to the FBI hostage rescue guys.... .   They knew full well what wuz right and wrong; but they choose to curry the favor of those for whom they work... . It takes courage to refuse an unlawful order; and they (...sadly...) didnt have the backbone to say no.... .  I suspect they figured that in the long run that they would be protected... .  It turns out that they were.... .   Government outrages like what happened at Ruby Ridge and at Waco are exactly why lots of people hate the government.   The fact is that we live in an imperfect world full of imperfect people.   Some of them with even murder for Uncle Sam... .   Never believe that government is always right and justified in what they choose to do... . It aint so.   From my perspective, the last people that i ever want to come to see me is the dammed US Attorney or (....God forbid...) the FBI... .  The sad truth is the Uncle Sam and some of his apparatchiks look a lot like Uncle Joe Stalin and his inner circle from time to time... .     Do i think they are all that way?... No.... .  Do i believe that they are enough of them to be noticeable?... Yeah... . Sadly.   leroy

After living and working in some of the areas I have in Memphis, nothing fazes me anymore. I remember when I was in Utah and was told that the area of SLC we were driving through was the "hood" and I laughed thinking that it looked like Bartlett. What living in Memphis (and paying attention to the crime report maps) has really taught me is that it doesn't matter if you think you live in a "safe" area, crime happens everywhere. This goes for where ever you are, not just Memphis. There is no such thing as a "safe" place, crap happens everywhere so be prepared for it but don't let fear of it rule your life.

Moonpies flat out suck.   I never understood the allure of them, they are drier than a popcorn fart.   I have heard of peanuts in a coke but I think it makes both products taste not as good as if you just eat and drink the things like normal.   bacon bits are great.  Ready made bacon no need to cook it myself.  Dump em in hash browns or mix em with cheese in some scrambled eggs. Other than that I prefer my bacon baked in a weave.  Perfect for a bacon, egg, cheese and lettuce with butter and mayo on toast.   Buttered under the eggs and mayo'd over the lettuce and bacon.   lettuce if fine for breakfast on a sammich.

a video is worth a million words: gotta have one! It will help your shooting! just watch! http://youtu.be/XZO_cKASmA8

  A man could get his ass whipped for talking like that  :rofl:

In bigger cities I avoid MLK blvd and any intersections involving MLK blvd as well as 2-3 blocks on either side of MLK blvd. I also avoid any streets with state names or president names, ie Washinton ave, Jefferson ave, Texas ave, Oklahoma ave, etc. These seem to be pretty universal in every big city I have been too.   Also, most areas outside of military installations tends to be kind of rough around the edges.   In Knoxville Magnolia and about two blocks on either side of it are rough areas. I drive down it every time I go to town and never had an issue. We play the "Is she a hooker?" game as we go. I have been caught down there a time or two after dark and it is a very scary place to be.

And the Republican party put him up for President.  :wacko:   People wonder why Obama was elected.  :rolleyes:

I think it's a conspiracy to make Obama not look weak and stupid. They failed.

  That may qualify you as gay for knowing how to spell it.

Please consider a fence or other restraint. I'll not get in to a big discussion on this but it's better for your dog and better for the people using property adjoining yours and ultimately, better for you.

  Ok, thats just f'in gross

Sadly, hounds would not fit any of your requirements except that kids love em. That's my favorite breed(although broad).

I used my Lee die to seat and it has a crimp but I never crimp my bullets. I take a few thousandths off the expander ball to increase neck tension when loading jacketed bullets. For cast I just remove the bell of the case mouth.

I have a deal with most of the kids I know that I'll take them shooting when they can recite to me the four primary rules of firearm safety and tell me what they mean. I'm always happy to make good on my end of the bargin, and a lot of parents I know are happy to know they're learning in a safe environment.

Stay out of anywhere within a 10 mile radius of downtown Memphis, at all times.

One is known by the company one keeps.  My momma told me that when I was a youngster.  That applies to a company and the individuals that work there as well.  How much do they sell to the civilian marketplace vs what they sell to government entities?  Im afraid that TI has made some choices here, and I hope they can live with it.  I rarely  agree with DaveTN, and I dont in this case either.  

In 1993, the Bill Clinton White House sold the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) as a way to aid Mexican and American workers.  The Senate, controlled by Democrats, approved the treaty on its first reading.    Ross Perot predicted that because the deal included no basic labor standards, it would cause a huge "wage differential between the United States and Mexico" that would result in "the giant sucking sound" of American jobs heading south of the border.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkgx1C_S6ls   The International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union was once one of the largest unions in the US with a membership over 450,000 at its peak.   Today it is gone.

Someone has to be the contrarian. But seriously, the actions of the gov on this one are so indefensible and tragic that Randy Weaver could have blown up the side of the mountain, burying the entire task force and still walked away justified in doing so. I say that with all the sympathies to the LE and troops that were there and the understanding that their actions were arguably justified in the moment based on what information they had. There is a small handful of people that really, really needed to be thrown in the clink for that one; Randy Weaver wasn't one of them.

[quote name="DaveTN" post="1025678" timestamp="1378140499"] He was criminal that opened fire on cops. It was the next day; he had been given many hours to surrender. How long do think they should have baby sat him?[/quote] I dont know. How would you feel if some overeager sniper (who must have sucked at shooting to shokt him twice and still not put him down at 200 yds) shot your wife in the face, holding your child while trying to hit someone running through your front door? It was a bad shoot, even the justice department agrees. I guess its never a bad shoot for you as long as he is wearing a badge huh? You realize that shot would bave gotten a military sniper in a combat zone sent to Leavenworth for murder? Think about that...... Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[quote name="DaveTN" post="1025637" timestamp="1378137473"] Vicki Weaver is dead because of Randy weaver and Kevin Harris. The first shot Horiuchi took hit Weaver; the 2nd went through Harris and killed Vicki Weaver, he hit both his targets on the run. I’m not upset they hired Houriuchi’s spotter. Weaver and Harris should be in prison for murder.[/quote] Oh I'm sorry. I thought the man who shot and killed an unarmed woman holding a 10 month old child should be in jail for murder. As should his spotter. They would quickly run a military sniper up for doing the exact same thing, so whats the difference? Maybe they should have left the people at Ruby ridge alone is what they should have done. Not that your postion suprises me. You defend to the death anyone with a badge or goverment title. Even a piece of shit like this. Tapatalk ate my spelling.

Ever think its cheaper to manufacture this stuff elsewhere because US business has been regulated into the ground? Why make it here and go out of business instead of making it else where and turning a profit? Seems like a no brainier. That isn't the manufacture selling out; that is the result of an over regulating government.

Let me see if i can add a bit of a "twist" on the "no refusal" DUI checkpoint thing...  As i understand it (...and as others have pointed out or hinted at...) a "drivers license" is a special permission given out to a citizen by the state for the right to do a certain thing (...drive...) with certain conditions attached (....think training, drivers testing, insurance, not doing certain things; like drinkin or dopin here....) all for a fee (...of course....) as opposed to a constitutional issue..  The constitution says nothin about states issuing licenses.  We can have a big discussion about whether this "license - fee" thing is good; but it's the norm and aint gonna change.   Said another way; a "license" has "strings attached" and requirements that are demanded by the state.  One of the big strings is a requirement that says "dont drive impaired"....  The stated reason is that ya cant drive too well impaired.  It endangers others. Bingo (...or eureka...) we've found the basis for "no refusal" DUI checkpoints.... .  We can quibble about the Fourth Amendment thing a bit; but it appears that the courts have long ruled that LEO has the prerogative (...even a duty, if ya are into "serving and protecting" the community....) to set up DUI checkpoints and its a slam dunk that they have "probable cause" to do so... Take a look at the number of "driving impaired" crashes anywhere... Like it or not, they dont need a warrant if there is a state law in place that outlines the "strings attached to driving"....   Take a look at the news... There is not a week (...or sometimes even 2 to 3 days...) that goes by without some drunken son or daughter of satan either crashing or killin another driver in your neck of the woods.  There's is one that just happened the other day or two that killed some innocent folks right here in east tennessee.  The dammed drunken driver wuz drivin on a revolked license and wuz a chronic offender.  Evidently the 3 strikes and your out doesnt work on some folks.   DUI checkpoints calm down this epidemic of "impaired driving" to some extent; and i think that's a good thing.   If everyone had good sense, ya wouldn't need DUI checkpoints.   Casual observation will demonstrate that lots of folks aint too smart.    The world is upside down... Dont fall into the trap of thinkin that somehow that your constitutional rights are being somehow violated when ya get in your car and encounter a DUI checkpoint... I've been thru bunches of them... I think they save lives... We can quibble about what ought to be done with drunk and impaired driving chronic offenders -- i tend to think we ought to shoot 'em--- but that's just me.   RE: the "mean overbearing LEO thing"... Yeah there are some out there; but the vast majority of LEO types are professional and tryin to do the right thing for the right reasons... The fact is that we live in an imperfect world where folks of all stripes do wrong things.  That is the nature of the fallen state of man...  I say give 'em a break; they aint the gestapo and they aint gonna haul ya off to the gulag or shoot ya (...unless ya do somethin real stupid...).   I say "dont drive impared" and "drive safely"... the life ya save could be your own, your neighbors, or your loved ones.... . That is a very important and worthwhile thing.....   leroy

Really no need for him to listen , he's just Obama's puppet anyway. He's just waiting for O to pull his strings.           and people wonder way another Democrate will win next time  

I have the tactical moustache sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

Is there a guy standing there to frisk you down when you dismount? Do you really fail to see what it is the people are objecting to?

10-4 well I still wanna look into it more, I know who to ask if I have any questions

  Ah... they're Republicans :)

NAA, no doubt. Sure there is a little difference in the shape/style but there have been 2 shot 'Derringer' style guns for years but the minis still sell hand over fist. One reason I prefer the .22 WMR mini over a centerfire in the niche for which I use the NAA is the lessened recoil of the mini while still maintaining a small package. I have a Kel Tec P3AT that works well for a deep concealed primary, sometimes, but I do not like it as a BUG. If I carry a BUG it is carried to be easily accessible to my off hand. To me, that means if I am using the BUG then my strong hand is either occupied or incapacitated. I can fire the P3AT one handed with my weak hand but it jumps around a bit and I always have to adjust my grip quite a bit after each shot. I doubt my 642 (my go-to for a primary pocket gun) would be any better. With the mini, however - especially with the oversized rubber grips I put on it - such concerns are kept to a minimum. I will say that ammo selection is imperative with these little dudes. Mine is the 1 5/8 inch model (I have only the Magnum cylinder) and I have very informally (water jug) 'tested' several different ammo brands/types from it. I was honestly a bit disappointed in the Hornady Critical Defense version. The Speer Gold Dot version, while not as accurate from a few yards out as some others, performed wonderfully, appeared to 'dump' more energy, expanded perfectly all while giving decent penetration. Strangely, the ugly, cheap WInchester Dynapoint load (which is a bit 'downloaded' compared to other WMR loads to more closely mimic the old WRF load) gave the best penetration of anything I tested. Some pics so it really happened: This was the first jug in the line for the Gold Dot test. I know it doesn't really compare to human flesh but I was impressed by how much it split the jug open - hence my comment about how it appears to 'dump' a good bit of energy. Compare that to the Critical Defense which 'expanded' poorly (if you even consider that to really be expansion) and didn't penetrate any better than, if as well as, the Gold Dot: The Critical Defense did well out of the 6 inch barrel of my Heritage Rough Rider. It expanded as expected and penetrated as well as (maybe slightly better than) the Gold Dot from that platform. I just believe, from my informal results, that the Gold Dot is more optimized for snubbie/truly short barrels. Oh, and the Dynapoint: Penetrated five one-gallon jugs filled with water and made a hole in the sixth. None too shabby for any handgun, especially a tiny rimfire, IMO. Of course, there was no, real expansion - maybe just a little deforming of the bullet. I have to wonder if being a slightly heavier bullet (45 grains) along with not expanding helped penetration. I will say that there didn't appear to have been any 'tumbling' as the Dynapoint seemed to have taken an almost laser-straight path through the jugs. I was a lot more accurate with the Dynapoint from seven yards out firing weak hand only than with the Gold Dot, though (the Gold Dot was responsible for the target in the top pic): Thinking that a heavier bullet might be better, I had high hopes for the Federal Game-Shok (50 grain) round. I guess it is just too heavy (or maybe long, etc.) for such a short barrel, though, because it gave such a 'rainbow' trajectory that it came out near the bottom of the first jug and barely clipped the bottom edge of the second. The accuracy issue caused me to go back and forth on carrying the Gold Dot in the NAA but I finally came to the conclusion that even seven yards is probably a lot further than I would be using the mini 'for real'. After some deliberation, I currently have the mini loaded up with Gold Dot. Now, for the bonus round. I have also tested WMR shotshells from the mini using a rolled up piece of newspaper to simulate a no-legged threat in order to find out just how much perforating potential there is. The pics show the results of a single shot from about five feet away with the newspaper lying on the ground: In case it isn't obvious, yes, I am a fan of the NAA (within certain usage parameters.) In fact, I am actually a fan of the .22 WMR, in general.

This is quite a poor attempt to conflate the valid idea of a negative right to be free of action from the government to impede an individual's right of travel with the invalid idea of a positive right to be provided the means to travel. It is an extremely poorly constructed argument. You can do better than that, can't you?

Meh, my dogs stay in my room anyway. Not that it matters, since I HAVE to intervene since my kids' rooms are on the other side of the house, so barricading myself and letting my kids deal with the armed intruders on their own is not an option. If someone comes into my house they are going to be carried out.

Glad you're relatively ok and able to still count to 10

Why thank you. Your kindness is touching, that'll cost you extra.

That isn't the cost of labor, that is the cost of government intervention!

Aside from my 3.27 acres in Knox County no where is considered safe by me.  

Stay out of the south and north ends after dark and don't go galavanting around looking for trouble and you will be fine. It isn't great by any means, but it isn't as terrible as some would have you believe.

Due to recent admonishments, I won't get too deep into this argument with you. All I will say is that you have taken this position is completely unsurprising to me. I would have expected nothing different from you other than to support and defend a couple of state sanctioned murders and those that committed them on the state's behalf.

Peg Leg Porker is pretty good BBQ.  Ate there for my birthday the other night.  It's downtown.

So you're shooting a 16" barreled .308 with a muzzle brake?  Of course it's loud!  Piston vs DI has nothing to do with it.   Ever heard a Saiga .308 that comes with no brake?  It's deafening.   Never listen to RSO's, except when the say Cold or Hot and other range orders.  They apparently are worse than gun store people.

  I figured. I'm still leaving the blue helmet pic :)