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I'm convinced that y'all just like to argue :)

Good lord folks can't get ammo at the price they think they should and they go all to pieces. If you were prepared you would not have to pay high prices for ammo. If you were not then suck it up and pay the prices or don't shoot. It is no ones fault but yours if you don't have ammo. Blame it on the scalpers the Walmart or what ever but look in the mirror and there is the only person at fault. The prices are high because the demand is high. That is life. Price of guns is dropping and ammo should follow. Be patient don't shoot or pay the high prices or get out and spend the time and effort to find it at cheaper prices. Things will get better or they won't. Up to you to decide when to buy or not. Today's prices may be cheap tomorrow. I think it will go back down but maybe it won't. If you don't like the prices don't buy it it really is pretty simple. I don't like the high price of gas but that is life you buy it or don't drive.

I am really looking forward to the evidence presented at trial from both sides.

I'm just not afraid to point out the obvious, & wasn't refering directly to any of our fellow forumites doing that though, just the media and race-hustlers like Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson who apparently needed to manufacture another incident/cause to milk. If Trayvon had been white or hispanic or asian or whatever, &/or if Zimmerman would had also been black, everyone would have said "well, if you brutally assault & repeatedly bash another person's head with or against something really hard, you should be shot". This discussion would had been 2 pages with everyone in agreement. For me this is really simple (and should have been for everyone). 1.) Did Trayvon brutally assault & repeatedly bash Zimmermans head into the sidewalk? Yes/no. 2.) Did Zimmerman have a "reasonable belief" that he was in immediate danger of sustaining SBI &/or possibly being killed by Trayvon's actions when he discharged his weapon Yes/no See how easy & uncomplicated that is? The ethnicity of the participants, their age, their height, their weight, their backgrounds, their gender, their religious or political beliefs, none of that other irrelevant garbage is in those two above equasions. I don't care if it was Mother Teresa &/or the Pope on top of me violently bashing my head into the sidewalk, I'm going to do whatever I have to to keep my brain-bucket from being busted open.

I am posting this after only getting to page 2. Ill read the rest and maybe amend.     At the risk of being labeled as something I am not I will relate a story.   When I was at South-Doyle Middle School in Knoxville we had a deck built in our backyard. A family friend, who was a brick mason primarily but knew enough carpentry to handle the job, did the work. He hired a friend of his to help him out.   A week after work was complete my grandfather, who lived up the street, noticed a car driving down in the middle of the day with three black guys in it. We lived on a dead end street and no one was anything but white. He saw them pull up to our yard and stop. At this point he walks inside, picks up a shotgun, and starts walking down the street. About one house down the car gives two quick honks and one of the occupants hurry's from our back yard and jumps in the car and they drive to the end of the road turn around haul ass out of there. My grandfather noted the make model and color and told us that afternoon. When we checked the back a tire iron was dropped beside the deck and we had pry marks on the door and frame. We told our friend the info and he said that it was his friend's brother's car by the description and that he was recently released from jail.   I relate this because at first glance these men were not doing anything illegal but yet based on prior history in our neighborhood they warranted a closer look. I do not fault George Zimmerman for watching and following Trayvon Martin. He was well within his legal rights and I think a moral obligation to do so. If you sit back and let your friends and neighbors be victims of crime I feel you are a poor excuse for a person.    Of course there is a line you should not cross. The question in this case to me is who crossed it? Did GZ attempt to break contact and was pursued or did he instigate the confrontation by more than just observing TM's actions and location?

    We don't know what the evidence is.  Here's the way I see it, the incident happened in February and they didn't arrest GZ until weeks later and only after there was a big media blow-up.   How many people have you seen that was involved in a shooting, taken in immediately, the evidence (in your words) didn't backup Z's claim and was released?  I'm not an LEO or anything, but would tend to think that if you had someone involved in a fatal shooting and they were in custody, they would not be released if the evidence didn't match up with the story.   Unfortunately I believe GZ has become a fall guy for the media sensationalists.

It will be a good trial to follow.

If being gay didn't come with so many restrictions that us straights don't have to deal with, I'd be willing to bet we'd hear a lot less about the gays.   Some of the same arguments being used today regarding gays were once used to treat women and blacks as second-class citizens. When the Women's Rights Movement began in the mid-1800's, I'm sure there were plenty of men who thought the world as they knew it was coming to an end.

Investigate the unknown person roaming his neighborhood. Just as if I saw a random walking down my street I would watch to see where he was going. Double if I had a string of break-ins. That is just as a concerned citizen. As a neighborhood watch volunteer I would feel it was my duty to report and maintain visual contact. If I was watching someone and they took off running as they saw that I was observing them I  would be of the opinion that they ran because they were guilty of something.   If I noticed a person breaking into my neighbors house I would probably arm myself and walk outside to where I had a clear view of the home, any vehicle, any accomplices, and any further actions while I awaited the police. Seeing as I also have a flip camera I would probably pick that up to turn on and use as well.    Would I be in the wrong? If I was approached and attacked by said home intruders in a public street or sidewalk would I be expected to have my head bashed in because I decided that being a witness was more important than sitting back and letting people do whatever they want left unchecked?

damn right

  Maybe he tried that a number of times in the past, and got poor results. This whole thing didn't happen in a vacuum. It was a neighborhood that had been plagued by break-ins. If we take away all our biases and deal with what is really documented for a minute, we may get closer to the truth. Zimmerman's comment, "they always get away" is significant. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't confront the suspicious person, but I may not let them out of my sight either. I have just always assumed that he was doing that, and will continue until I see proof of something else.

Why do people keep saying that he had no "authority" to investigate?

   It isn’t an unfounded allegation; it’s an undisputed fact. What did Martin do that gave Zimmerman the cause or authority to chase him when he was trying to get away from a guy following him and ultimately chasing him? Zimmerman was committing a crime when it turned into a pursuit. Disengaged? What authority or right did he have to “engage” in the first place? I guess a lot of this depends on who people identify with. Some seem to think convicting Zimmerman will somehow limit their ability to protect themselves. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Do any of you plan on jumping out of your truck and chasing a kid that you think is suspicious? I don’t. I identify with Martin. If I am walking down the street and some citizen thinks I look suspicious and he wants to check me out and starts approaching me in a threatening manner; I will display a weapon, that is my right to defend myself as an innocent citizen. If he has a gun a decides to draw; one of us is probably going to die. If I was the survivor and he was a dead neighborhood watch person I hate to think you would all be saying I had no right to protect myself in an unprovoked attack.

  Zimmerman lied in sworn testimony. His wife was arrested for perjury for her part. If the Judge allows all this BS about Martin in, he will also have to allow the past bad acts of Zimmerman in. His lying under oath, domestic violence, attacking a cop; he’s toast as far as credibility. OJ walked because three cops took the stand and lied. The jury decided to disregard their testimony and they were not left with enough for a conviction. If they throw out all statements made by Zimmerman; they will be left with a dead kid that did nothing wrong. I don't belive anything Zimmerman says.

One reason that gays want the Scouts to stop the nonsense, is that when gay boys were found out, whether they came out on their own or were outed by someone else, they were immediately kicked out of scouts.  True, this is a private organization, but it's still discrimination, any way you look at it.  Gays are not looking for their on special rights, they just want to be treated like everyone else, which means they are treated fairly and humanely; not like the pariahs, as they are at times now.   As to abuse, I'd say there is by far much more abuse perpetuated on children of both sexes, by straight family members, than by gay men, inside or outside the family.  Sexual child abuse, just like rape, is a crime of power and dominance, that uses sex for that end.   As for BSA and any kind of child abuse, if you are or were an adult affiliated with scouting, either as an Assistant Scout Master, Scout Master, or a Troop Committee Member, you know that  the BSA and Scout Troops practice Two Deep Leadership for meetings, events and outings.  That means there is no one-on-one private interaction between an adult and a Scout.  If a Scout Master needs to talk to a Scout about a private matter, he has to have another adult present or have that meeting in a room where the door is open and in full view of other adults.  If a troop is at camp, and for some reason a Scout Master must go into the shower with a boy, then two adults must go in.  All adults in leadership positions are required to go through a background check EVERY YEAR, as long as they are affiliated with Scouting.  When I was an Assistant Scout Master, when our troop was on an outing, we usually had as many fathers and older brothers with the troop, as we had Scouts.  And most of the Troops we interacted with, were the same way.  I won't say abuse cannot happen, but I will say it's would be damned hard.    Also, I've seen some of you talk about older boys praying on younger boys.  That is also something that would not be easy, since most troops divide their Patrols up by age group.  If they get a whole Cub Scout unit coming into their Troop, that specific group stays together in a Patrol.  That's what happened with my son's Cub Scout unit.  We all went to the same Boy Scout Troop as a new Patrolch elected their own leadership.  On outings, each patrol planned their part of the outing and they worked together as a Patrol, just like how in the Army, squads work together.  Again, I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I'm saying it would be hard.  Scouting is now set up to protect kids.

If it doesn't fit the "Justice for Trayvon" narative they'll just ignore it, doesn't matter if Zimmerman was on the phone to 911, it doesn't matter that he was ambushed by Trayvon, it doesn't matter that he was having his head smashed repeatedly into the sidewalk or that he was screaming for help when he discharged his weapon. A *white* hispanic killed a black, that's all that seems to matter.

  DAs do not always follow what the investigator wants.  I have had it work both ways:  I have asked prosecutors the ask for bond on someone, only to have them recommend them to be released without bond.  Also, I had prosecutor charge someone where I did not feel there was sufficient evidence, only to have the prosecutor drop the charges at the preliminary hearing.   As an investigator, I personally went out of my to not make any recommendations to prosecutors regarding charges.  I did not feel that was my job.  My job was to investigate the incident, gather all the facts and evidence, and present that to the prosecutor and let them make the decision.  Most of the time, the prosecutor did what I felt was right, but on a few occasions, they did the opposite.

Your statement completely ignores the statements made by Zimmerman. 1. That he cried out for help repeatedly, but no help came. 2. That Zimmermans head was being bashed against the ground by someone younger and in much better shape and at least 4" taller, with several inches of reach on him and on top of him and would not stop the beating. 3. That Martin saw his gun and was trying to get it out of his holster, escalating the danger to Zimmerman. This is a far cry from "went right to deadly force."

I just can’t dismiss this as a race issue. If I was a member of the black community and I had to yell racism to bring attention to this and get justice; so be it. I’m not convinced race was a determining factor in Zimmerman picking Martin out, but I’m not sure it wasn’t. If I was the lawyers on either side I would be going through all the calls he made to Police and find out. I think the bigger issue was Zimmerman wanting to be cop. He wanted to be a cop; that is no secret. He had a couple of obstacles in his way. His girlfriend had accused him of domestic violence and he had been arrested for assaulting a Police Officer during an altercation in a bar. No department was going to hire him. It is made very clear to Neighborhood watch people they do not engage. I’m unfamiliar with Florida law. What “right” did he have as a neighborhood watch captain; do they have some kind of authority? Police Officers and licensed Security Guards have the training and ability to escalate the level of force used. He did not have that training or ability; he went right to deadly force. If he was “patrolling” the neighborhood why did he not have mace, a Taser, a baton or the ability to call backup? He didn’t have any more right than any other citizen to do that, but when you try to approach someone that has committed no crime but is just suspicious to you, and they run in fear; you stop. Trying to make Martin out to be a thug because he had smoked pot and talked about guns in laughable when he has no criminal record and your client has two documented acts of violence, carried a gun, and has now shot a kid to death.

A little leeway is one thing, ... brutally assaulting & repeatedly bashing another person's skull into a cement sidewalk is another. I have no sympathy for Trayvon, karma wasted no time in rewarding him with what he earned. And this whole "Justice for Trayvon" thing has been racially motivated, the sickening claims of "Trayvon would still be alive if he had been a white kid!" nonsense started from the very beginning. I have no doubt that Zimmerman (or anyone else in that situation) would have shot a white or hispanic or asian or whatever if they were the one who had been on top of him trying to spill his brains all over that sidewalk that night. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Zimmerman didn't shoot Trayvon because he was black, Zimmerman shot Trayvon because Trayvon was attempting to smash Zimmerman's head open.

I think the biggest hit the BSA took was when they were banned from holding meetings in schools and from camping on public land. That seemed to me to make finding places to hold meetings more difficult and made it more difficult to get boys back and forth to the meetings and it made finding places to hold events like campouts very difficult. Regardless of what the council voted, many disagree with the decision. If many parents of scouts are like me, they are against ANY open display or discussion of sexuality with their young boys, not just homosexuality. It's an issue that simply shouldn't have ever come up. Nobody in the BSA needs to know a kid's sexual tendencies and nobody there to be a scout needs for everyone to know. So their ranks will dwindle even more, b/c a few people have a perverse need for everyone to know their business.

You may not be able to force me into your religion, but when enough of you get together and vote for certain rules, laws etc. based on your religious beliefs, I am most certainly forced to live my life based on your religious beliefs. But that's the way out system currently operates, and I accept it for what it is.

I call them like I see them & I am not surprised that you're offended, but I am not a fan of thuggery or thugs, regardless of their color, you do remember that whole "content of their character" speech? anyway I am thoroughly disgusted by the folks trying to turn this Trayvon thug into some kind of martyr because of his skin color, not because of the content of his character. If my being disgusted by that offends you, well then the problem is on your end, not mine.

Give more than you get, and you will get more than you need. Thus is true for the good and bad you do in life. CONGRATS

I have never been a big 1911 guy, but I fell in love with this thing the moment I saw it. It hung around at my local gun shop for a few months, and I was at the store again.........and I could not take it any longer. Home we went! Now I just need to take her out to the range. Nighthawk Predator II in "sniper gray." [url=http://s199.photobucket.com/user/tnresdog/media/IMG_0353.jpg.html][/URL]

Wow...that would be worse than the BSA allowing gay boys into scouting. ;)   http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/65894-boy-scouts-allow-gays/   The most important question is, should a person carry openly or concealed?   Or...   Should "real" Americans buy only an "American" car made in Mexico or a "foreign" car made in Smyrna Tennessee?   ROTFLMAO

The post you're referring to was posted while my tongue was placed firmly in my cheek.

You are now or former LEO correct?  If so then I suspect you have some familiarity with the "Neighborhood Watch" program.   I'm certainly no expert but I know of no state or community where the Neighborhood Watch has any "special powers"...like the one we formed in my neighborhood, it was simply a bunch of neighbors who got fed up with break-ins and promised to keep an eye out for each other/each others' property.  We had two actual meetings with LEOs (Rutherford Co SO and Murfreesboro PD); since then we keep in touch through FB and phone/text, etc. and communicate with each other and the non-emergency (usually) number of MPD if we see anything we think is suspicious.   Bottom line is that I don't see any way that being a "watch captain" has anything to do with Zimmerman's guilt or innocence the only question that I believe is relevant at all was who REALLY started the physical altercation and whoever that was, was he justified under FL law to do so.

  9mm is for pussies :)

I confused as to what the “Watch Captain” or “On Duty” has to do with anything? Does being a neighborhood watch member have some special privileges in Florida? Is being a “Watch Captain” something special? If Zimmerman was an off duty cop the first question would be “Did he identify himself as a Police Officer?” The second question would be “Did he have authority to act?” So… How did Zimmerman convey to Martin that he was someone special and Martin didn’t need to be afraid? And does a “Watch Captain” have authority? Is there such a thing as a “Watch captain” being on or off duty?

I am one of those right-leaning Republicans. Maybe I'm not leaning far enough, because I am not buying into the notion that gays wanting to be part of the Scouts is part of some evil conspiracy to rule the world and force me to dress like one of the Village People.  

Race is absolutely an issue - it's the soul reason Zimmerman is on trial for murder...had this been a white 17 year old thug it would have ended when the DA decided not to prosecute. The DA at the time it happened saw the evidence and didn't prosecute...the evidence I've seen since has given me no reason to think that the DA was wrong.

  None of that adds up to murder. Even the folks, like me, that don't think he committed murder, won't accuse Zimmerman of being the sharpest knife in the drawer.   If ANY of us go investigating a bump in the night, we're not going to leave our pistols behind.

At one time it was mentioned that TM had no right being where he was. He did as his father was visiting his girlfriend. I looked at pictures of the neighborhood where this all come down. Where is the fence and gate to keep people out of this gated community? Can just anyone walk through there?   D

  That’s a point I made in the threads when this happened. “He could have ran away”. But that’s the whole issue of the stand your ground laws we all want to protect. He was committing no crime, he had every right to be there, and he had absolutely no requirement to run from a stranger with no legal authority to stop him. He did run and Zimmerman chased him. At some point he decided to stop running, stand his ground, and engage his attacker. Bad news for him; his attacker had a gun, he didn’t.

I agree 100% Look at the times he went on tv without his lawyers knowing it to throw his sales pitch. If I was his lawyer, I'd fired him as a client! I'm not saying at all that TM was an angel. This is not about that. This is about was Zman "standing his ground" in fighting/shooting TM. Was TM "standing his ground" when he put the smack down on Zman. That's all this is about to me. I said it months ago on here and I repeat it now. "Had Zman stayed in his truck, we would not be reading this. Most people say Zman was standing his ground. Did not TM have the same right if he felt threatened by Zman? We can all speculate about this and that, but we only have one side of the story to go on. Unfortunately, that side of the story is of questionable character and a liar.   The jury has a tough job ahead of them! Susan Anthony got off in Florida, I guess Zman stands a chance too!   Dave

   Some of us are questioning what Zimmerman did. I can’t speak for the others but I am white. From reading my posts or anyone else’s here do you think we are making this a race issue? The community is up in arms because they saw an injustice unfolding. You want to dismiss that as the community being racist?

   Where was Zimmerman’s gun prior to the confrontation, was he open carrying, was it in his hand? Did Martin see it? You say Zimmerman says he shot martin while Martin was pounding his head in the ground. You want us to believe that Martin was trying to get control of Zimmerman’s gun, but then quit trying and gave Zimmerman free access to his gun while Martin grabbed his head and started banging it into the ground? That doesn’t make sense. Did Martin stop, try to withdrawal from the fight and Zimmerman shot him? These are things that need to be addressed in court.

So, perhaps I misunderstood... If the only reason he was charged was community outrage over race, why did the investigators recommend charges before any of the outrage took place? Seems to me if the DA was someone different Zimmerman would have been charged before any of this became news.

Not once have I said anything about color or race. Every opinion that I have given was based upon my belief that Zimmerman took his position as a watch captain a bit too seriously. I would feel the same way if Martin were your kid. What you said was juvenile. It didn't offend me, but on the other hand maybe I should have expected that from you. I'm willing to give teens a little leeway because they still have time to change their lives and become productive citizens unlike some older folk who think that their sh*t never stank. If any of you parents are naive enough to think that in this day and age your teen doesn't have some thug glamour shots or some photos of other questionable behavior floating around the internet you are only fooling yourself. Based upon reports Martin was no angel, but he had a right to be walking down that street and he had no burglary tools on his person. Had the captain allowed the real authorities to do what the taxpayers pay them to do his behind wouldn't have been in the slammer for the last year.

Probably should have posted back here a while ago with my but I'm finally doing it now. I would 100% recommend Steve and have been thrilled with his work. I'm very happy I checked here for a recommendation!

Parts kits from overseas, which is what they all to start with, are few and far between. They used to be in the $100 range and come with a barrel, so add in the cost of a cheap receiver and labor to put one together and $300-400 is what you could get into one for. Now expect to pay $400 for a parts kit, if you can find one, and most likely it also will not include a barrel as they can no longer be imported. Add $100-150 for the barrel and another $100 for a receiver plus labor and it is not hard to see why $800 and up is the new norm.

Bass Pro.  $25 a pound all four grades and Remington caps. 7.95 a hundred

If that's the case, then you should have a real problem with the gay lobby, who is infiltrating every aspect of society and demanding that everyone accept them and approve of their behavior, regardless of the beliefs of those they demand acceptance from, and many times labeling those beliefs as bigoted and intolerant, even going so far as to demonize and vilify anyone who doesn't accept their lifestyle. Seems like a glaring double standard to me. Why is it ok for gays to force what they believe down my throat, but not ok for Christians to speak what they believe to be the truth? The religious are doing the very same thing, and has been for a much longer time. Like the gays, they don't like it when they lose a battle.

Technically by law you are required to always pay sales tax (self reported) if buying from a business out of state, but many don't.  The FFL will not collect it, you would have to self report. I always do of course  :pleased:

ARs are domestically produced. AKs are not. Perhaps there's greater concern that the Obama admin will try to  do some kind of importation restriction via administrative ruling or Executive Order.

For some reason, the BSA is convinced I'm an Eagle Scout (I wasn't but they think I am) and I was surveyed on this issue a few months ago as I'm sure many here were.   Frankly, I don't have a problem with "gay" boys being allowed in scouts...they were already there anyway.  Improper sexual behavior is improper sexual behavior regardless of what sex or sexes are involved and sexual "anything" really has no place in scouts in any event.   Gay boys can benefit from learning how to pitch a tent, use a compass, build a camp fire and tie a knot just like any straight boy can.   I think some here are turning this into a "sexual" issue and it simply isn't...not allowing gay boys into scouts simply because they are gay makes about as much sense as not allowing children with red hair into scouts because they have red hair. Many seem to always want to make the leap from "being gay" to "having gay sex" one is simply not interchangeable with the other.

TR's staff taught the course I attended. Mr. Yeager stopped by the class and spoke to the group. Welcomed and thanked us for being there with no war stories. No arrogance at all displayed. It was pretty much a busniess and professional attitude from all instructors in the class. Now is Mr. Yeager confident in what he does and proud of his career, I would say so. The course was fast paced with few breaks except to reload mags, hydrate etc and with a lengthy lunch, thank goodness. One thing TR does is make sure you send rounds down range. One instructor not assigned to the class showed up on both days and spent his off time helping students. I may take some more training or may not, however let me say that never in this country's history except probably during the Revolutionary War has such training been available to citizens. Would not surprise me if civilian tactical trng is shut down at some point in time. Civilians taking "Small Team Tactics" has got to drive the far left nuts.

James wasn't even present for the two classes I attended. He is more of a spokesman then an instructor. He travels and sets up the class locations and does PR. The school has many great and competent instructors. If fact in one of his videos he states that so many people have been requesting him personally for training as of lately that he set aside 5 classes for this year that he will be the instructor but you have to request to be in one. I think they are full already. I see it this way. I don't like home depot's political views or the way they fund political crap I don't agree with. I don't like their CEO BUT I still shop there because they have products I need. I see Tactical Response in that manner. I don't care about the personal life or personality of the figurehead because the training is outstanding and the instructors are top notch, no BS, real world experience men that have something I want.

  new top contender for best post of 2013