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I'm convinced that y'all just like to argue :)

Good lord folks can't get ammo at the price they think they should and they go all to pieces. If you were prepared you would not have to pay high prices for ammo. If you were not then suck it up and pay the prices or don't shoot. It is no ones fault but yours if you don't have ammo. Blame it on the scalpers the Walmart or what ever but look in the mirror and there is the only person at fault. The prices are high because the demand is high. That is life. Price of guns is dropping and ammo should follow. Be patient don't shoot or pay the high prices or get out and spend the time and effort to find it at cheaper prices. Things will get better or they won't. Up to you to decide when to buy or not. Today's prices may be cheap tomorrow. I think it will go back down but maybe it won't. If you don't like the prices don't buy it it really is pretty simple. I don't like the high price of gas but that is life you buy it or don't drive.

I am really looking forward to the evidence presented at trial from both sides.

I'm just not afraid to point out the obvious, & wasn't refering directly to any of our fellow forumites doing that though, just the media and race-hustlers like Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson who apparently needed to manufacture another incident/cause to milk. If Trayvon had been white or hispanic or asian or whatever, &/or if Zimmerman would had also been black, everyone would have said "well, if you brutally assault & repeatedly bash another person's head with or against something really hard, you should be shot". This discussion would had been 2 pages with everyone in agreement. For me this is really simple (and should have been for everyone). 1.) Did Trayvon brutally assault & repeatedly bash Zimmermans head into the sidewalk? Yes/no. 2.) Did Zimmerman have a "reasonable belief" that he was in immediate danger of sustaining SBI &/or possibly being killed by Trayvon's actions when he discharged his weapon Yes/no See how easy & uncomplicated that is? The ethnicity of the participants, their age, their height, their weight, their backgrounds, their gender, their religious or political beliefs, none of that other irrelevant garbage is in those two above equasions. I don't care if it was Mother Teresa &/or the Pope on top of me violently bashing my head into the sidewalk, I'm going to do whatever I have to to keep my brain-bucket from being busted open.

I am posting this after only getting to page 2. Ill read the rest and maybe amend.     At the risk of being labeled as something I am not I will relate a story.   When I was at South-Doyle Middle School in Knoxville we had a deck built in our backyard. A family friend, who was a brick mason primarily but knew enough carpentry to handle the job, did the work. He hired a friend of his to help him out.   A week after work was complete my grandfather, who lived up the street, noticed a car driving down in the middle of the day with three black guys in it. We lived on a dead end street and no one was anything but white. He saw them pull up to our yard and stop. At this point he walks inside, picks up a shotgun, and starts walking down the street. About one house down the car gives two quick honks and one of the occupants hurry's from our back yard and jumps in the car and they drive to the end of the road turn around haul ass out of there. My grandfather noted the make model and color and told us that afternoon. When we checked the back a tire iron was dropped beside the deck and we had pry marks on the door and frame. We told our friend the info and he said that it was his friend's brother's car by the description and that he was recently released from jail.   I relate this because at first glance these men were not doing anything illegal but yet based on prior history in our neighborhood they warranted a closer look. I do not fault George Zimmerman for watching and following Trayvon Martin. He was well within his legal rights and I think a moral obligation to do so. If you sit back and let your friends and neighbors be victims of crime I feel you are a poor excuse for a person.    Of course there is a line you should not cross. The question in this case to me is who crossed it? Did GZ attempt to break contact and was pursued or did he instigate the confrontation by more than just observing TM's actions and location?

    We don't know what the evidence is.  Here's the way I see it, the incident happened in February and they didn't arrest GZ until weeks later and only after there was a big media blow-up.   How many people have you seen that was involved in a shooting, taken in immediately, the evidence (in your words) didn't backup Z's claim and was released?  I'm not an LEO or anything, but would tend to think that if you had someone involved in a fatal shooting and they were in custody, they would not be released if the evidence didn't match up with the story.   Unfortunately I believe GZ has become a fall guy for the media sensationalists.

It will be a good trial to follow.

If being gay didn't come with so many restrictions that us straights don't have to deal with, I'd be willing to bet we'd hear a lot less about the gays.   Some of the same arguments being used today regarding gays were once used to treat women and blacks as second-class citizens. When the Women's Rights Movement began in the mid-1800's, I'm sure there were plenty of men who thought the world as they knew it was coming to an end.

Investigate the unknown person roaming his neighborhood. Just as if I saw a random walking down my street I would watch to see where he was going. Double if I had a string of break-ins. That is just as a concerned citizen. As a neighborhood watch volunteer I would feel it was my duty to report and maintain visual contact. If I was watching someone and they took off running as they saw that I was observing them I  would be of the opinion that they ran because they were guilty of something.   If I noticed a person breaking into my neighbors house I would probably arm myself and walk outside to where I had a clear view of the home, any vehicle, any accomplices, and any further actions while I awaited the police. Seeing as I also have a flip camera I would probably pick that up to turn on and use as well.    Would I be in the wrong? If I was approached and attacked by said home intruders in a public street or sidewalk would I be expected to have my head bashed in because I decided that being a witness was more important than sitting back and letting people do whatever they want left unchecked?

damn right

  Maybe he tried that a number of times in the past, and got poor results. This whole thing didn't happen in a vacuum. It was a neighborhood that had been plagued by break-ins. If we take away all our biases and deal with what is really documented for a minute, we may get closer to the truth. Zimmerman's comment, "they always get away" is significant. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't confront the suspicious person, but I may not let them out of my sight either. I have just always assumed that he was doing that, and will continue until I see proof of something else.

Why do people keep saying that he had no "authority" to investigate?

   It isn’t an unfounded allegation; it’s an undisputed fact. What did Martin do that gave Zimmerman the cause or authority to chase him when he was trying to get away from a guy following him and ultimately chasing him? Zimmerman was committing a crime when it turned into a pursuit. Disengaged? What authority or right did he have to “engage” in the first place? I guess a lot of this depends on who people identify with. Some seem to think convicting Zimmerman will somehow limit their ability to protect themselves. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Do any of you plan on jumping out of your truck and chasing a kid that you think is suspicious? I don’t. I identify with Martin. If I am walking down the street and some citizen thinks I look suspicious and he wants to check me out and starts approaching me in a threatening manner; I will display a weapon, that is my right to defend myself as an innocent citizen. If he has a gun a decides to draw; one of us is probably going to die. If I was the survivor and he was a dead neighborhood watch person I hate to think you would all be saying I had no right to protect myself in an unprovoked attack.

  Zimmerman lied in sworn testimony. His wife was arrested for perjury for her part. If the Judge allows all this BS about Martin in, he will also have to allow the past bad acts of Zimmerman in. His lying under oath, domestic violence, attacking a cop; he’s toast as far as credibility. OJ walked because three cops took the stand and lied. The jury decided to disregard their testimony and they were not left with enough for a conviction. If they throw out all statements made by Zimmerman; they will be left with a dead kid that did nothing wrong. I don't belive anything Zimmerman says.

One reason that gays want the Scouts to stop the nonsense, is that when gay boys were found out, whether they came out on their own or were outed by someone else, they were immediately kicked out of scouts.  True, this is a private organization, but it's still discrimination, any way you look at it.  Gays are not looking for their on special rights, they just want to be treated like everyone else, which means they are treated fairly and humanely; not like the pariahs, as they are at times now.   As to abuse, I'd say there is by far much more abuse perpetuated on children of both sexes, by straight family members, than by gay men, inside or outside the family.  Sexual child abuse, just like rape, is a crime of power and dominance, that uses sex for that end.   As for BSA and any kind of child abuse, if you are or were an adult affiliated with scouting, either as an Assistant Scout Master, Scout Master, or a Troop Committee Member, you know that  the BSA and Scout Troops practice Two Deep Leadership for meetings, events and outings.  That means there is no one-on-one private interaction between an adult and a Scout.  If a Scout Master needs to talk to a Scout about a private matter, he has to have another adult present or have that meeting in a room where the door is open and in full view of other adults.  If a troop is at camp, and for some reason a Scout Master must go into the shower with a boy, then two adults must go in.  All adults in leadership positions are required to go through a background check EVERY YEAR, as long as they are affiliated with Scouting.  When I was an Assistant Scout Master, when our troop was on an outing, we usually had as many fathers and older brothers with the troop, as we had Scouts.  And most of the Troops we interacted with, were the same way.  I won't say abuse cannot happen, but I will say it's would be damned hard.    Also, I've seen some of you talk about older boys praying on younger boys.  That is also something that would not be easy, since most troops divide their Patrols up by age group.  If they get a whole Cub Scout unit coming into their Troop, that specific group stays together in a Patrol.  That's what happened with my son's Cub Scout unit.  We all went to the same Boy Scout Troop as a new Patrolch elected their own leadership.  On outings, each patrol planned their part of the outing and they worked together as a Patrol, just like how in the Army, squads work together.  Again, I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I'm saying it would be hard.  Scouting is now set up to protect kids.

If it doesn't fit the "Justice for Trayvon" narative they'll just ignore it, doesn't matter if Zimmerman was on the phone to 911, it doesn't matter that he was ambushed by Trayvon, it doesn't matter that he was having his head smashed repeatedly into the sidewalk or that he was screaming for help when he discharged his weapon. A *white* hispanic killed a black, that's all that seems to matter.

  DAs do not always follow what the investigator wants.  I have had it work both ways:  I have asked prosecutors the ask for bond on someone, only to have them recommend them to be released without bond.  Also, I had prosecutor charge someone where I did not feel there was sufficient evidence, only to have the prosecutor drop the charges at the preliminary hearing.   As an investigator, I personally went out of my to not make any recommendations to prosecutors regarding charges.  I did not feel that was my job.  My job was to investigate the incident, gather all the facts and evidence, and present that to the prosecutor and let them make the decision.  Most of the time, the prosecutor did what I felt was right, but on a few occasions, they did the opposite.

Your statement completely ignores the statements made by Zimmerman. 1. That he cried out for help repeatedly, but no help came. 2. That Zimmermans head was being bashed against the ground by someone younger and in much better shape and at least 4" taller, with several inches of reach on him and on top of him and would not stop the beating. 3. That Martin saw his gun and was trying to get it out of his holster, escalating the danger to Zimmerman. This is a far cry from "went right to deadly force."

I just can’t dismiss this as a race issue. If I was a member of the black community and I had to yell racism to bring attention to this and get justice; so be it. I’m not convinced race was a determining factor in Zimmerman picking Martin out, but I’m not sure it wasn’t. If I was the lawyers on either side I would be going through all the calls he made to Police and find out. I think the bigger issue was Zimmerman wanting to be cop. He wanted to be a cop; that is no secret. He had a couple of obstacles in his way. His girlfriend had accused him of domestic violence and he had been arrested for assaulting a Police Officer during an altercation in a bar. No department was going to hire him. It is made very clear to Neighborhood watch people they do not engage. I’m unfamiliar with Florida law. What “right” did he have as a neighborhood watch captain; do they have some kind of authority? Police Officers and licensed Security Guards have the training and ability to escalate the level of force used. He did not have that training or ability; he went right to deadly force. If he was “patrolling” the neighborhood why did he not have mace, a Taser, a baton or the ability to call backup? He didn’t have any more right than any other citizen to do that, but when you try to approach someone that has committed no crime but is just suspicious to you, and they run in fear; you stop. Trying to make Martin out to be a thug because he had smoked pot and talked about guns in laughable when he has no criminal record and your client has two documented acts of violence, carried a gun, and has now shot a kid to death.

A little leeway is one thing, ... brutally assaulting & repeatedly bashing another person's skull into a cement sidewalk is another. I have no sympathy for Trayvon, karma wasted no time in rewarding him with what he earned. And this whole "Justice for Trayvon" thing has been racially motivated, the sickening claims of "Trayvon would still be alive if he had been a white kid!" nonsense started from the very beginning. I have no doubt that Zimmerman (or anyone else in that situation) would have shot a white or hispanic or asian or whatever if they were the one who had been on top of him trying to spill his brains all over that sidewalk that night. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Zimmerman didn't shoot Trayvon because he was black, Zimmerman shot Trayvon because Trayvon was attempting to smash Zimmerman's head open.

I think the biggest hit the BSA took was when they were banned from holding meetings in schools and from camping on public land. That seemed to me to make finding places to hold meetings more difficult and made it more difficult to get boys back and forth to the meetings and it made finding places to hold events like campouts very difficult. Regardless of what the council voted, many disagree with the decision. If many parents of scouts are like me, they are against ANY open display or discussion of sexuality with their young boys, not just homosexuality. It's an issue that simply shouldn't have ever come up. Nobody in the BSA needs to know a kid's sexual tendencies and nobody there to be a scout needs for everyone to know. So their ranks will dwindle even more, b/c a few people have a perverse need for everyone to know their business.

You may not be able to force me into your religion, but when enough of you get together and vote for certain rules, laws etc. based on your religious beliefs, I am most certainly forced to live my life based on your religious beliefs. But that's the way out system currently operates, and I accept it for what it is.

I call them like I see them & I am not surprised that you're offended, but I am not a fan of thuggery or thugs, regardless of their color, you do remember that whole "content of their character" speech? anyway I am thoroughly disgusted by the folks trying to turn this Trayvon thug into some kind of martyr because of his skin color, not because of the content of his character. If my being disgusted by that offends you, well then the problem is on your end, not mine.

Give more than you get, and you will get more than you need. Thus is true for the good and bad you do in life. CONGRATS

In just 1 1/2 minutes, Nora Craig tells elected officials in New Jersey just what their job is supposed to be. Classic!!   http://www.therightscoop.com/fantastic-new-jersey-woman-delivers-a-lesson-on-the-2nd-amendment/  

Just got these. My favorites so far. Fit, finish, and function is perfect on both knives. One thing I'll say about the 300... If you enjoy seeing that expanding wet spot on the front of some liberal's Dockers, just whip that sucker out in the Starbucks and lop off the top of your sugar pack. :). Evil black knife.

Yep I'm still waiting to see someone join the board who is an Arab that loves guns, and who is also an atheist and homosexual. They'd qualify for an unholy trinity according to some of the threads around here. I love this board and there are some awesome people here, but occasionally....

Dont take long does it? Pets will give undieing love and ask but for a little bit back.

Either way, I respect the opinions of others, no matter how strongly I disagree. Not that I am assuming anyone cares, but I don't allow these discussions to have an ill effect how much I generally like most folks here on TGO. If I liked you before (which is almost everyone), discussions like this don't change a thing. 

  Perfect verdict:   "Your Honor, we the jury find no one guilty in this trial. However, we also find that both parties were incredibly stupid. Is there a penalty for that?"

Here is a better idea; how about people stop going apoplectic about a kid's alleged sexual proclivities or over a private, non-governmental, non-religious organization's decision about who can and can't join and let boys enjoy the great things that scouting can teach them?

  I completely agree with you, Daniel.   I have been thinking, while reading this whole thread, exactly the same thing.   How many people here say they answer the door at night with a gun on them or readily available? Using the same logic applied to GZ/TM: what did that person knocking on your door do that was illegal? Doesn't that make you a Cop wannabe/mall-ninja/over-zealous security guard?   I would bet that most on this forum, given a similar situation: 6-7 break-ins in your neighborhood in a short period of time, perpetrated by an Elvis impersonator, would follow the next Elvis you saw while on the phone with 911 waiting for officers to arrive.   I am in no way condoning what GZ did that night, but as MikeG pointed out earlier, this event did not happen in a vacuum. It must be taken in context with the previous crimes that had been committed in the complex.   And TM was a stranger (or visitor, if you like, not a resident.) I'm not convinced that showing up at your Father's Girlfriend's house makes you a "resident" right away.   And frankly, if even the tiniest amount of cordiality had been involved; I still insist that the:   "Hey, what are you doing moseying around the neighborhood?"   "Oh, just moved in with my Dad and I went to 7-11 for some skittles and tea."   "Oh, cool, have a nice night and welcome to the neighborhood" conversation would have been the most sensible outcome of that night.

Ouch.  At least I was outside shooting guns with good people.    Some day Hognut...  some day ...  you will be mine!

I confused as to what the “Watch Captain” or “On Duty” has to do with anything? Does being a neighborhood watch member have some special privileges in Florida? Is being a “Watch Captain” something special? If Zimmerman was an off duty cop the first question would be “Did he identify himself as a Police Officer?” The second question would be “Did he have authority to act?” So… How did Zimmerman convey to Martin that he was someone special and Martin didn’t need to be afraid? And does a “Watch Captain” have authority? Is there such a thing as a “Watch captain” being on or off duty?

Which is better, 9mm or .45?

Wow! What a match. Steel can be very humbling. Thanks for coming out.

Zimmerman being or not being a member of a "watch group" is absolutely irrelevant. He was a citizen (or "white Hispanic" if you perfer; whatever the hell that's supposed to be) who lived in a neighborhood that had been dealing with break-ins and, it sounds like, the thugs usually getting away.  He saw someone he thought looked suspicious and tried to describe and follow him until the police arrived..he took his side arm with him as I and I'd bet everybody else on this board would have done.   The 911 operator told him he didn't need to follow Martin and from what I've seen he complied with teh 911 operator and either had or was about to return to his vehicle when he was jumped and beaten.   You can say he should have never "followed" Martin in the first place or never left his vehicle and I'd be inclined to agree with you but I can't see any act on Zimmerman's part that presented to Martin what a "reasonable man" would consider to be an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm and if there was no such threat from Zimmerman toward Martin then Martin was the aggressor, had ZERO legal right to jump Zimmerman and beat his head against the sidewalk - as far as I can see, Martin got exactly what he deserved.

Race is absolutely an issue - it's the soul reason Zimmerman is on trial for murder...had this been a white 17 year old thug it would have ended when the DA decided not to prosecute. The DA at the time it happened saw the evidence and didn't prosecute...the evidence I've seen since has given me no reason to think that the DA was wrong.

  None of that adds up to murder. Even the folks, like me, that don't think he committed murder, won't accuse Zimmerman of being the sharpest knife in the drawer.   If ANY of us go investigating a bump in the night, we're not going to leave our pistols behind.

   Where was Zimmerman’s gun prior to the confrontation, was he open carrying, was it in his hand? Did Martin see it? You say Zimmerman says he shot martin while Martin was pounding his head in the ground. You want us to believe that Martin was trying to get control of Zimmerman’s gun, but then quit trying and gave Zimmerman free access to his gun while Martin grabbed his head and started banging it into the ground? That doesn’t make sense. Did Martin stop, try to withdrawal from the fight and Zimmerman shot him? These are things that need to be addressed in court.

I decided to retrieve my M1 Garand from my safe and post it this Memorial Day weekend. I am just in awe of all the brave Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines who fought in World War II. This weekend I plan to reflect and pray for those -- both here and gone -- who sacrificed so much for their country and countrymen. [url=http://s1053.photobucket.com/user/mootw/media/IMAG0192_zps59a0bc73.jpg.html][/URL]

  Just be sure that you are looking for the unedited version, and not the one-sided NBC/MSNBC edit.

No more than you would expect the gays to roll over and take it. No one is forcing anything on anyone. There was a vote, and majority spoke. End of story.

I believe — in your frustration for the ways in which certain aspects of life as you once knew it appear to be changing — you are unjustly generalizing and clumping far too many people into one large group that you consider the enemy. I don't believe issue "A" necessarily always effects issue "B", and I certainly don't believe we all need to agree on every issue in order to be on the same team. Tunnel vision can be just as destructive as nearsightedness, if not more so. This whole generalized us versus them mentality has not only gotten way out of hand, but it's also forced a lot of them to leave us. In the grand scheme of things, the gay issue couldn't be a bigger non-issue, in my opinion. The religious-right's staunch contempt for how two adult of the same sex choose to live their personal lives has forced otherwise right-leaning Republicans to become left-leaning Democrats. I know of at least a couple perfect example of this. Other than the whole being gay thing, they conduct their lives in much of the same ways as a stereotypical right-leaning Republican, but they feel forced to vote for Democrats so they can preserve the happiness of being in a same-sex relationship. The gay issue is one battle the Right refuses to admit they've lost. No matter how much you despise it, there is no turning back. The Right is outnumbered by the Left on this issue, and will soon be outnumbered by its own in the not-so-distant-future. You can suck it up and move on, or you can spend your last precious days on Earth dwelling on what could have or should have been. There are far bigger fish to fry. In the art of war, do we rarely always agree with those who's got our back.

Fred, You will not have to swing by RJ Martins booth for me this year, he is holding my knife and sending it to me when I get home but thanks for doing that for me last year!

Love it!!!! Short, sweet, and right to the point. Awesome how she points out that her safety is her responsibility.

Technically by law you are required to always pay sales tax (self reported) if buying from a business out of state, but many don't.  The FFL will not collect it, you would have to self report. I always do of course  :pleased:

I think Zimmerman is innocent and have thought so pretty much from the beginning, mostly because before all the political/racial shit started the DA had declined to prosecute (I really, really doubt a prosecutor would not prosecute if he thought he had this serious of a winnable case) and especially after the un-doctored tapes and witness statements started to come out.   I think these pictures and text messages just shows "sweet little Travon" for exactly what he is, a want-a-be badass/gansta with not a lot going on upstairs and a big chip on his shoulder.

I can't help but wonder...for those of you who are having a problem with this and think that "allowing" homosexuals to be in the BSA is somehow changing or compromising "morals", do you let homosexuals into your church or do you forbid them from entering there too?  Do you let them in but make them sit in a special section so they can't spread homosexuality?   Are homosexuals unable to believe in a "god"?   Really, folks...if you want to exclude people who have or may have, in your opinion, immoral proclivities then you might as well close the damn doors to your church because not a SINGLE ONE OF YOU would qualify to go inside.

I only support the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and local band programs when they ask.  Everyone else can begone.