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For those of you who were hoping for the real thing... :yuck:

We dont change a thing.

Remember, the truth is always the truth regardless of timing or delivery.   I'm 66 years old and ive never seen the divide any deeper nor the rancor any nastier than it is now between the opposite sides of the political spectrum.  It's time to tell the truth.  These people want to disarm you and me; while keeping their arms and bodyguards.  It's nothin more that the social darwinism thing that wuz popular in the early 1900s. At its core; it says: "....We the elites are smarter and more responsible than you less evolved "ordinary citizens"; therefore we'll TELL YOU what's good for you and make you abide by it, because we are "more advanced beings; and you are too ignorant to know what's good for you; so we'll disarm you and threaten you with the power of the state to keep you in line....".     I wouldn't worry about offending these sons and daughters of satan.  They are tryin to disarm you and make you a serf while tellin you that that's not what their doing.  Finestein just as well have been standing on the caskets of the kids murdered at Newtown when she started this show.  It's political opportunism, pure and simple.    Remember, political figures are "public figures".   That's a choice they make goin into politics.  They bring their families along with them, and should have no expectation of privacy for themselves or their family members.  They may try "theatrics" and "feigned outrage" at those who criticize or point uncomfortable things out publically; demanding that family be "off limits" ALA Clinton and Nobama.  I say "baloney".  It's a "red herring"; they know better.  It's nothin but an opportunity to try to divert the conversation from the real issue to a side issue that really means nothing for tactical advantage. Dont get drug off in the woods with this baloney; that's what it is. The republicans criticized Truman's daughters piano playin ability; the demorats called Lincoln the "Illinois Baboon; the demorats said Bush wuz dumb.   They just may have been right on all counts.  They were, in fact, "unkind on all counts" and meant to be.  Politics is a tough business.   I say: "...The hell with most all of them... Theyve asked for this, let it be...".     Remember the great quote from a real hero and giant of politics, Fredrick Douglas: "...I will always join with those who are doing right, and never join with those who are doin wrong...".  That's exactly where we are today.  I refuse to turn on and "eat" those who are tryin to help in this battle.  I would advise you and others in the kindest way possible, not to do so either.   We're well past the point of worryin about hurting feelings and worryin about timing.  This one is for all the marbles.   leroy

We get the not answering the phone thing alot lately. Unless I dedicate at a minimum two people to solely answer the phone there are going to be alot of calls going unanswered. That is also two people I'm pulling off the counter helping the folks that took the time to drive up and see us. We answer the phones when we can, and majority of the time either myself or my brother are standing there answering them back to back in between doing trades, buying, and talking with distribs to get the products that the calls are asking about. I mean, feel free to call, but dont get upset when the phones are already busy, or we cant get to them by the second ring.

i just read it on the internet, must be true

Stop by their office and ask them if they would be willing to post one of those, "This building/office/home is gun free" signs.

what part of infringe don't you understand.   I can't give an inch on this.

  NEWS FLASH; THIS JUST IN -- these are not normal times. Do you really think these business want to provide poor customer service? Perhaps the dip in their normal service levels may have something to do with all the panic buying going on now. Visit the websites of Glockmeister,JP Rifles,Midway ect. and they will explain how they are doing the best they can. Yes i want to order 15 mags for each of my 8 Glocks but that is just not possible now. I also understand its not the fault of Glock,Glockmeister or any other vendor i normally use. We can stand around and complain about the current state of affairs or try to be more understanding and present a unified front to those who seek our down fall.   Please dont take this as a personal attack,thats not my intent, but we can nip at each others heels like a pack of dogs,or we can focus our efforts on ways to over come the liberals who have created this situation.

  They?   Do any of you realize that TGO is not a business?  It's not some company-run entity.  There's literally one person behind it.  Me.    Yes, we have volunteer moderators who help keep the forums moving smoothly, but every single piece of technology that runs under this site... every debt that it incurs... every bill that gets paid to keep the lights on for you... it's all me and I do it on top of my normal 50hr a week job and it takes away anywhere from 20-30 more hours of time from my family each week so that I can provide this site to the firearms community.   There is no THEY and the decision to accept PayPal was made out of necessity and desperation to streamline the process because there's only so many hours in the damn week.  Frankly this thread irritates me and comments like yours piss me off because it opens up a whole 'nother mess of things I have to explain.   The bottom line is you guys better hope PayPal doesn't stop letting us collect contributions to keep TGO running because when they do it's going to cause a whole lot of grief for not only this forum but dozens of others like it that depend on those contributions to keep our web servers lit.   But hey, let's sit around and bitch about someone getting their account shut down for violating PayPal's terms of service and cast disapproving glances towards TGO for being in bed with the enemy.  Because THAT makes my life better.  When you talk about PayPal potentially fucking a gun forum like TGO, you're talking about them fucking ME.   So if one of you guys owns a credit card processing company that will let me set up as a sole proprietor and not claim nearly 20% of everything the members contribute in fees and leave me with enough to pay for the bandwidth, server resources, software licenses and all of the other crap that we've become accustomed to having any time we get bored and want to aim our cell-phones and computers at this little corner of the Internet, I'll drop PayPal tomorrow and start running all of our Benefactor memberships through that instead of PayPal.  But until then I personally hope to God they leave us the hell alone.

Chuck, you served in the military before and I'll make the assumption you have combat experience since we've been in the fight for 12 years. You should know there is a difference between an assassination and kinetic targeting. We do it all the time, from HVIs like Zarqawi down to IED manufacturers. I saw a JDAM mission during the surge get approved on a bed down location for low level hole diggers, just to send a message that we will absolutely kill the lowest level guys and make no attempt to capture. There is a difference between ROE and the law of land warfare. The enemy doesn't have to be armed to kill, and you have zero obligation to capture him. The only time it is illegal to kill is when it is obvious the enemy is trying to surrender. Al Qaeda is a foreign military. There is no way around that. They attacked the highest headquarters of our military and blew up two of the largest buildings in our country. We declared war on the Spanish once over a boat that they didn't even blow up! The point I'm making is that when an American citizen joins a foreign military that we are at war with, we can kill them. We did it in WWII to Americans who joined the German army and Jap army. What is different now?

OK, I'll do it.  What we are discussing is a legitimate issue that people like Alex Jones turn into a tinfoil hat conspiracy.  Isn't anyone even slightly skeptical that of all the media outlets and media personalities, politicians that support liberty, and others speaking out against the government that Alex Jones is the ONLY one who ever gets info from all of these unnamed sources with seemingly classified insider information?    Again, the argument is that there is absolutely nobody in the federal government or military beyond this one "unnamed source" that believes in the rights of Americans and refuses to blow the whistle.  Not one of these dismissed officers has sounded the alarm and not one has had a change of heart.  Even Ron Paul is in on the conspiracy or somehow simply doesn't know what's going on.  It's such a well kept secret that Wikileaks didn't find anything on it, and groups like Anonymous haven't happened across any evidence of this seemingly widespread federal policy. Someone else mentioned Katrina.  The weapons confiscations during Katrina is a far cry from the insinuation that federal government is preparing to join forces with some secret cabal (UN, NWO, FEMA, communists, etc.) to take over the nation.  By wasting time and energy on these absurd conspiracy claims, we are not addressing the legitimate problems and questions that are right in front of our faces.  Let's take Katrina for instance.  Did the circumstances following Katrina justify confiscation of weapons from law-abiding gun owners?  I don't think so, and I find that precedent troubling.  But let's argue that point on the merits of the incident alone recognizing that it could lead to a slippery-slope situation without jumping off the cliff into Alex Jones land.  Convincing members of the National Guard to collect weapons from people following a natural disaster and absolute social chaos is a much easier sell for most Americans than telling them to launch armed attacks on Americans who voice political dissent.  Again, do you ACTUALLY believe that there isn't a single person in our military or government with a conscience or love for individual liberty or that all of the military members who voted against Obama will be so easily convinced that killing American protesters is OK?  Also, I agree that efforts to portray Tea Party members and anti-federalists as potentially domestic terrorists is very troubling.  However, when we see people like Alex Jones and his followers going out on a ledge with their loony conspiratorial rhetoric and people getting on the Internet openly advocating armed revolution or discussing when Americans should take up arms against the government (including on TGO from time-to-time), we are making the government's argument for them.  By playing into the Alex Jones trap, people may find themselves getting what they ask for.  That is the real danger here. Incidentally, I recently spoke with a high-ranking member of the Department of Justice who agreed to talk on promise of anonymity that the Obama administration is actually publicly supporting gun control efforts, but is secretly trying to derail it behind the scenes in order to maintain support of the NRA so that they can get Joe Biden elected to the presidency in 2016.  Biden plans to repeal all gun legislation and there is talk of issuing all members of the unorganized militia (as defined in the Dick Act) M-4 rifles and ammo in order to protect the nation from a possible terrorist attack or invasion by the Chinese.  The Obama administration is trying to keep this all quiet so the Chinese and the Russians won't catch wind of it.  All of this gun control rhetoric is a massive smokescreen to hide the real agenda of the government.

I'm gonna write this one off as false until the source is named and there is something to back it up. When wild accusations are made the onus is on the accuser to provide evidence. Saying "I heard it from a guy who is a super good source and is a high ranking official" doesn't cut the mustard.

Southwest Texas. Boom. *Drops microphone, walks off stage*

HAVE TO STAND AS ONE

Last week we blew through 100 TGO decals in about 3 hours. Those are in envelopes and going to the post office today! We've just added 100 more to the TGO store so feel free to hop on over and pick it clean again. We'll keep adding them in batches of 100 as needed, as this gives us a chance to stay caught up mailing them out. Thanks!

Most US Presidents have inspired and earned the respect of the military.   The current occupant of the White House hides behind it.   You are a coward, Mr. President.

While they were men, and therefore just as flawed as any other human being, I believe the founders had great wisdom, the likes of which has vanished from the face of the earth. They knew what they were doing when they wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, because they were getting a full dose of government tyranny. In fact, they probably couldn't write fast enough to keep up with the thoughts that were racing through their heads as to what the limitations of government should be.   No, I wouldn't change a thing.

They're probably safe, no money or valuables in that building......lawyers "that smart" don't win many cases.

You suck!

Emotion. Playschool brand toys killed more kids this year than AR-15s. Once again, I just don't understand the emotion here toward an inanimate object.

I'd rather they go full force on us than compromise another inch. At least then it will be a wake up call and perhaps the pendulum will start to swing in the other direction. Incrementalism is working, and so long as we let it work by compromising our rights every few years we will lose in the long run anyway. Let's just get it over with so we can fight the real fight, which is the repealing of the 2nd Amendment.

I would say this. If there are unsecured loaded firearms in the house with children, and no adult supervision, I believe that's irresponsible parenting. I'm glad you were a bright kid and didn't do something stupid. However that's no way to treat children. Children cannot be trusted, they are not adults and do not always make rational decisions.

Apparently you like things short and extremely top heavy, I have a 5' 300lbs sister if your interested.

The guy that walked out did so not because of fear but because he tried to control someone and was told he couldn't. Just as the mayor said the same person tried previously to tell the same gentleman he couldn't wear a hat. And because the guy wasn't able to control people he threw a fit by walking out.   Dolomite

"Resident Logan Hennecke tells the station that he thinks it's "a very smart choice" for parents and schools to know which students have access to firearms...."   Its none of their damn business! That's labeling a child and is no different than if we segregated children that have a parent that is HIV positive or is schizophrenic.

[quote name="CCI" post="897027" timestamp="1359254774"]One word, "paranoia"! They scare each other on the California gun site![/quote] Unity will make or break the outcome. I hope New Yorkers stand strong together, and I hope gun owners stand strong together across the Nation because it will be required to achieve victory.

  Prob is, no way to know how many folks own them, so no way to judge compliance.   I foresee massive gun checking at rifle ranges, where the state can pick 'em off one at a time. Cuomo will probably put the pressure on to  give em the jail time, too.   - OS

I would say we all can answer that one, in one form or another.

 Welcome to TGO. You did the first step correctly. You asked for help from other shooters.  What kind of pistol did you buy?  When you select a training class, the instructor will tell you what you need to know. It sounds like you have had some military experiance.  You need to buy a "Range Bag" to carry your pistol to and from the range. Do you have a cleaning kit? Ear protection and eye protection?  In my range bag I keep 1) a cleaning kit 2) first aid kit 3) ear protection 4) Safety Glasses 5) ammo 6) Pistol 7) spare magazines 8) electricians tape 9) Sharpie marker 10) Pen 11) paper 12) tool kit 13) Pocket knife 14) Flash light.   You may also want to buy a holster for it. Learn the 4 basic rules of gun safety and practice handling your unloaded pistol with your trigger finger pointed straight and outside the trigger guard. The first sign that a shooter is untrained is if he/she puts their finger inside the trigger guard.   Good luck Hombre! You will do well.

Nice rant, but he has several facts dead wrong. 1)  Congress DOES pay into Social Security.  They have their own pension system as well, though.  Paid for by the taxpayers. 2)  The draft was a failure on many levels.  There is this myth that drafting men will make them better citizens.  It's a myth.  Didn't happen that way.  I remember draftees.  I saw lots of them kicked out of the Army.  While some were decent soldiers, many were trash.  They had no motivation or desire to do anything except the bare minimum to avoid punishment.  And they lied, cheated, and stole at every possible opportunity.  Finally, the draft IS Slavery.  3)  Over 50% of the population gets public money in the form of entitlements of a paycheck.  Those folks have no incentive to change the system.  In fact, they have an incentive to vote for Obama and those who promise to continue funding those EBT cards.   Those of use who value Freedom over 'Free Stuff' still have a few things going in our favor. 1)  The Constitution still imposes limits on government.  2)  The 9th and 10th Amendments provide the states a way to refuse to play by Federal rules.  State governments can still nullify Federal laws that conflict with State law. 3)  Most of the folks who prefer 'Free Stuff' over Freedom are located in the major cities and in only a few states.  If the other states refuse to support them, they will starve. 4)  we have LOTS of guns and ammunition.

If it didn't affect us, Obama, Clinton, Pelosi, the Brady bunch and all the rest wouldn't be pushing for it so hard.

I was referring specifically to the OP's article posted. Napolitano is talking about something different. I disagree with his assessment of targeting enemy militants abroad. Joining a foreign military that is at war with the US makes you a soldier of that military. BTW, this is probably the only time I have disagreed with an opinion of Napolitano. I understand what he is saying about due process, but being in a foreign military is a different animal. To put this in perspective, we do not have "shoot to kill" orders on our soil for enemy combatants. That is to say, on our soil a cop can't identify a foreign soldier and just shoot him in the face. However, in combat that is a different story. We can shoot an enemy combatant while he is unarmed and taking a dump and it is still legal.

  Yes, you can draw a "topic line" between beer and whiskey because of the two different methods and ways they are made.   Today's whiskey has no line that's black and white, but many shades of gray. And the same can be said with all distilled liquors. At one time you could make the same whiskey in Tennessee and Kentucky.. but only call the one from Kentucky "bourbon", because it was a legal place name and not based on the way it was made. The same can be said for Cognac.. a legal name for the brandy made around the town of Cognac in France. Times are changing, and a label on a bottle may not tell you the real truth about what you're really drinking, how it's made, or it's true location. Many bottles on the shelf will even have cute little names like... Apple Liquor... Peach Vodka.. or Wild Berry Gin. And some may even be called a "Whiskey" and be a blend of different type liquors or flavoring. Many will start as a neutral alcohol and end with many different names. Rum can only be correctly called "Rum" if it's made from sugar cane... "technically". But rum has been added to whiskey to give it more of a caramel taste. Some liquors are made that technically doesn't fit in a true location or type so giving it a "name" can be a problem. One distiller in Indiana made a "Rum" but couldn't call it by that name because it was made from sorghum cane and not sugar cane. So they call it "Sorgrhum"... "sweet sorghum spirit".   So.. you got a whiskey(or liquor) with a high-age number on the label? But is that number true? Many times it's not! Many only required a percentage to be true... the rest maybe required to have a blend of no less than say 3 years aging to be able to call the higher number. And you would never believe that they would add color to off-set the difference in age... would you!?   The only way to really know what's in a bottle.. is to make it yourself!

A lot of people that I know that are in Unions are Pro 2A.  I think it's a possibility that what Mike suggested, is the case.

Is Jim Garrow a Judge, would it matter if he is? I’m not questioning his credibility or character; I’m questioning the credibility of an unnamed source. He may have been told that; that doesn't make it true.   Does anyone in this thread (besides you) not think I am not seeking the truth?

The wording exempts active and retired law enforcement if they purchased/acquired the weapon before they retire - they can keep it. I did not see anything on exempting government officials in general (and did read through the entire thing last night), but the bill as with most, is easy to overlook some verbiage here or there.   To add in, I would recommend taking 20 minutes and reading through the bill before going off of hearsay from anyone. Even if you don't understand the application or intent, at least you have the general knowledge of its vocabulary.

Okay, I did a quick search. A Nobel Peace Prize “nominee” is claiming that an unnamed source is telling him “The new litmus test of leadership in the military is if they will fire on US citizens or not”. Those who will not are being removed,” So I’m supposed to believe that any military leader that says “No” is being removed? That would be great information if it could be verified.   These stories all seem to make the fact that this guy being a “Nobel Peace Prize Nominee” gives him credibility. 205 people were nominated that year and Obama was the recipient. Obama won, and it doesn’t make him any more creatable in my eyes.   I truly believe if this is happening a credible source will step forward.

Just remember... some lawyers get into the business so that they can have a chance at politics and have a chance at eventually wielding power irresponsibly so that they can control you and me.  These folks look like they'd be bad at playing poker too.

Very nice.  I like the two-tone look.

The only change I would make is one that would actually enumerate the powers of the judiciary as it does for the legislative and executive branches and require that any Constitutional and legislative interpretations be done so with the original intent as the guiding principal.

[quote name="Razz" post="896492" timestamp="1359210470"]Yep. I see that look everyday. It's the look of moral superiority. It's the look of self righteousness. It's the look of self entitlement. [/quote] I see it too... Every time I go to shave.

  The problem I have with this claim is that you didn't back it up with any sort of link or facts.  Just an "I heard from a guy who knows a guy who read a web site while sitting on the toilet" statement.  Post some facts.

I for one, I have never valued customer service for non-service related purchases.  I choose retailers for one reason, and one reason only, price not value.  I am 44, likely have spent over $1 million in my life on purchaes, not once when I look back, customer service meant anything to me.  Now customer service at a resturant, doctor's office, and other service providers, yea that means something, but not for buying stuff, especially buying a car.  Value on customer service is a joke!  Bottom line "to me" is the price I paid!

I snagged a case of 500 from SG ammo today for $209.00 plus shipping. You can sign up for product notification. It was bonded HP from a over run LE contract.       9mm Winchester Ranger ZQ4364 147 grain

  Interesting question. I'd say a few (including myself) would pay a little more for operation of the forum. Can you create another "level" of membership or open a donation account?

:woohoo: For the Mayor and the firearm owner and the rest of the group.

  They are going to use it to profile the kids whose parents own guns and then treat those kids differently.   Dolomite

I think the best one this season was when Art told them they were going to get lunch first, "In case you shoot somebody."

Well for a tutorial, I didn't take any during pictures. For the pattern itself, it was created by using a couple images I found on the internet. The "veining" was found by searching for an irregular pattern, I can't find the original image again, but there are several that would work. Next for the splotches I dumbed down the ATACS pattern to 5 colors in a program called VectorMagic. I measured the parts for the veining to be coated and cut the vinyl to wrap the pieces. The splotches were just cut out of full sheets of vinyl to make sure I had enough pattern for coverage.   With the vinyl cut, I did a base of Magpul FDE faded with Desert Sand, then overlayed the veining with transfer tape as well as taping off the rails to keep them a single layer fade.. Next layer was Patriot Brown faded with Coyote Tan, I wanted a good contrast between the colors of each layer. I then flashed the cerakote, pulled all the veining and layed the slotchy pattern. I took OD Green, Forest Green and Desert Verde and faded them together. All this work is done with a HVLP spray gun.   From start to finish it took 2 hours for disassembly and prep work, 14 hours of spraying, vinyl laying/removal, baking and another 20 minutes to reassemble. All prep work was done on a Saturday, spraying was done all in 1 day (Sunday) and reassembly happened after work on a Monday. Sunday was a very long, cold and tiring day.   Now I'm taking on the fun task of load development, with a shortage of powders and primers out there, this probably won't be shooting good for another month or so.         -- BrokeEnthusiast-- This rifle used to have a Nikon P223 on it, the Magpul BUIS worked just fine under it, I went to the Bushnell since I was getting a good deal on it. The Bushnell TRS-25 is on a Daniel Defense offset rail. **For the Nikon scope that used to be on this rifle I had it in the Burris PEPR mount, now it sits on my 300BLK Handi Rifle in a set of Burris high mounts.