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Is it dead because we are debating an individual's actions or because we won't pack a sack lunch and go fight the great civil war of 2013 with muppet beard?

Fair enough, Jay. I'll just tell you how I view it. If you walked into my workplace and said "If this happens, I'm going to start killing people" you'd be removed quickly and violently if necessary. Just because there isn't a precedent, it doesn't mean there won't be or shouldn't be. I'm fine that they yanked his permit and I'll be fine if they give it back. It's not an anti-Yeager thing for me. It's an anti-being a loudmouth fucktard that posts dumb crap on YouTube in the middle of a 2A national crapfest thing.

[quote name="tntnixon" post="882837" timestamp="1358018641"][size=24]HERE LIES THE SECOND AMENDMENT[/size] [size=24]  DECEMBER 15, 1791-JANUARY 2013[/size] A VICTIM OF SELF INFLICTED WOUNDS  CAUSED BY GUN OWNERS WHO DID     NOT REALIZE THAT THEY WERE     HURTING THEMSELVES BY NOT            STICKING TOGETHER. MAY SHE REST IN PEACE AND GOD                  SAVE US ALL.[/quote] So if a lunatic shoots off at the mouth and says he's going to kill people if a legislation is passed, I have to stand by that individual simply because he supports the 2nd Amendment? Are you f***ing serious right now?

You keep talking about this lone permit puller like they have the power of God at their command to zap our permits with a Bond villain laugh and punch of a key. I seriously doubt this was some 9-5 TDOS worker that made this decision. It came from high up, now what you want to do about that I don't know. I'm sure JY and his attorney will address it forthwith, but please, I'm begging you stop saying the same thing over and over about someone LOSING their job.

I was always under the impression, and the courts have generally ruled that if/then statements are not considered true threats. I'll give an example: "If anybody touches my daughter, I will kill them." Does this statement constitute a real threat to any individual or pose a true risk to the general public? I think not. Now if I say "I'm gonna kill Jim Jones tonight because he touched my daughter", that is a very different statement and the courts have ruled as such. This man's rant is far more similar to my first example than to my latter. I can't see any court agreeing that his statement is anything other than protected by 1A. I haven't posted on here in quite some time because I realize that, for some reason, gun owners are cannibals and will sacrifice each other for any perceived protection of their own rights. I have generally witnessed this community trying to find fault with every post they see and even the most logical arguments will always find an assortment of detractors. Unfortunately, when we sacrifice other's rights, our own shall be next. We are in a very precarious time not that dissimilar to those our forefathers faced. We are very close to embarking upon a time when rights can and will be revoked by whim of bureaucrats and executive edict. These are not the actions of a representative republic. So I beg of each and every one of you to remember the statement of our founders "If we don't hang together, we'll hang separately." I encourage all to support this guy, even if you don't agree with his rant, because I can assure you that each and every one of you has made some statement, that if looked at by the right set of eyes, could deprive you of your rights or, as some have said, privileges. 

There's another point here that we shouldn't lose sight of. You fight in two courts - a court of law and a court of public opinion. James may have a case to eventually get his HCP back. If he wants, he can retain counsel and argue his case. With good counsel, as our law is written, he might win. But, in the court of public opinion, he's a gun grabber's wet dream. I have no doubt that Feinstein, the Brady Center and Bloomberg were absolutely giggly watching this. Because when you put this on the news, it sways opinion. The sheep will look at James carrying on angrily, not making eye contact and scratching at himself like he's strung out, yet threatening to kill people and they'll be swayed. Where they might have been on the fence not particularly caring either way, they'll watch the video and say to themselves, "I don't want that guy having an 'assault rifle'. He's crazy." The minutae of the law may matter down the road, but they don't matter right now. If we turn the public against us, we lose a lot of ground we've gained over the last 20 years. When you strap on a firearm, you either become an asset to society or a liability. Your actions and just as importantly, your words represent all of us. Protecting yourself and your family is right. Tennessee has recognized using a firearm to do it a privilege. Regardless of how you feel about this, strapping on a weapon carries a heavily responsibility. You represent us all. Act and speak wisely.

Yeah, I'm actually going to order a bunch more of them soon.  Just got to get us moved to the new server first.  That's the priority issue for me at the moment.   But those are definitely coming back!

  All correct.   But the reality is that we are actually fighting for the heart and minds of the American people here, just as in an election. The people put pressure on their reps, the reps will respond to whatever they perceive will get them reelected.   "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar".  The hard left and hard right are already unshakable, the "flies" are those in the middle.   Every time mainstream America sees a perceived scary nut job making press, deadly Bushwhackers and killer clips take a hit in the public perception. That translates to polls and letters, and influence on the final say.   - OS

First of all, you are already proving my point (was the muppet beard part really necessary in an adult conversation?). The truth is that I find it very problematic that 2A supporters won't even support a 1A issue from a fellow 2A supporter. It is not about agreement or disagreement with his words or thoughts, it is about a government agency that is intentionally trying to quiet an idea that they do not agree with. Taking this guy's handgun carry permit will not have any effect on the safety of the people of Tennessee, however, it will put fear into Tennesseans to not speak their minds or suffer government sponsored consequences. I always find it ironic how little people really understand the meaning of our Constitution or the reasons that each amendment was put into place. 2A was not enacted so we could engage in hunting or protection against would-be thieves or ruffians, but in order that we might protect ourselves against a government run-amok. 1A was not meant to allow us to say anything to anybody without consequence, however it was designed so that the government could not control our ideas or communication of the same even if very unpopular. That being said, it is perfectly reasonable for any and all of you guys to think he is a douche and call him one. It is also perfectly reasonable to tell all your friends to avoid him at all cost and give his company no business. Actions (including one's speech) have consequences. What I find particularly troubling is that 2A supporters are encouraging and defending the government's punishing of an individual for their speech in order to distance themselves from that individual's ideas. I promise you that if I comb through every word you have said or post you have made, I will find something that someone can call objectionable enough to warrant the removal of your handgun carry permit. I, however, do not believe that any government entity should become part of the "thought police" or use our rights and privileges against us as a weapon should we cross any imaginary boundary. I'm sure that each of us has an idea of a line of demarcation that we will not allow the government to cross with regards to our individual rights. Would you like to have rights or privileges revoked by merely stating what that line is or how you would handle having that line crossed? That is exactly what this man did, no more and no less. He made a hypothetical argument about a hypothetical situation that has yet to occur. Were his ideas radical and different than mine? Yes. Am i willing to call the government's actions in shutting them up justified? HELL NO.

I've had my sh** rattled more times than Yeager, that is for sure. More or less doesn't really matter though; he is an idiot, and the fact that he played "just the tip" in regards to making threats against the government, then told everyone who told him to tone it down for his own good to f*** you, then suddenly TOOK that advice from a lawyer and is now trying to zap every video of him making that statement off of YouTube. This clearly defines his cowardly nature. Don't say you're gonna do something, then back down like a little b**ch. he would have been smarter not to say anything at all, but now that he did and can't stand by his statements shows me everything I need to know about that waste of oxygen; he is a coward. Normally I wouldn't second guess anyone's actions under fire, but based on the evidence he has supplied us with, I would be silly to believe he is anything but a coward. Getting in to a fire fight doesn't suddenly make you a badass, nor does getting injected with HGH and challenging everyone on the internets to an MMA fight. This guy is a cartoon character, and I enjoy the comedic value he holds, but I will be DAMNED if I would accept that he is some kind of combat hero when he has never once raised his hand and took an oath to serve his country while we have so many that do. He does not fall into the same category as our veterans.

@ Robert   No revoking his permit does not lessen the threat, but it is acting within their authority and acting in a resonable and responsible manner.  As far as if he is truely a threat to public safety or not, i do not know.  I can not tell whats in the mans heart, but if you take his words at face value then yes he is a danger.   Edited to add:  I have yet to see a TGO member that said if they move one more inch im going to start killing people.  There have been a few that are fairly close to the line but yeager crossed clear as day.  He played the stupid game and he won the stupid prize. He went on you tube and made a public video threatening to kill people.  he may very well have just been angry and venting however the state can not necissarily take that risk. 

    That was a direct quote from a citizen in the news report and I absolutely, 100% agree with him.  This is exactly why I've been saying we need to use wisdom when it comes to the proposed "million gun marches" and other nonsense like that.  It all absolutely plays into the hands of the media, and it scares the sheep.  To paraphrase a line from Jurassic Park, people have become so worried about whether they can do something, they don't stop and think about whether they should do it.   No amount of carrying rifles around in public is going to have a positive influence on the fence sitters who vote and sway them "our" way.  It will most certainly polarize them, but it's going to send them right into the camp of voting against rather than for the preservation of the Second Amendment.  Those two likely inspired a lot of people to consider tighter restrictions on firearms in Portland, Oregon.  Way to go, fucktards.

[quote name="Brent1973" post="882827" timestamp="1358017910"]I won't buy there but i would think the people who work there is not the ones who raised the prices.. That would be the owner i would think. It just really pisses me off the more i think about this. I would not mind buying there in the passed cause i was thinking of it as i'm helping the mom and pop stores.. BUT this is too for i think. Even reloading, the primers or up 50% or more!! I just don't no where to go for my gun needs now.. I HATE WALMART and not a fan of any of the box chains[/quote] You need to find a quality shop to patronize. Price gouging in one of these panics would turn me away from an LGS fast. Also noticed your not a Walmart fan. Seems funny you'd shop with people who would resort to business practices I would consider shady at best, yet Walmart has not raised any prices at all from what I've seen. While I can certainly understand shopping with a specialty retailer who's invested in their patrons and the 2ndA in general, I can't fathom supporting those who have proven with their own actions that they are interested in nothing more than separating their customers from as much of their money as possible. I'd rather do business with a handful of QUALITY retailers than anything, barring that I'd give my last dollar to Walmart before supporting a store that would take advantage of a political situation in the same fashion the libs take advantage of a tragedy.

  They did it to get his attention. It worked. I would bet my own money that his lawyer will get him thru this in a hurry. In my feeble opinion, the state needs a way to shut down a carry permit quickly. If he gets his permit back, what's the harm. No other action would have been as gentle.   We don't know the internal mechanisms, or really anything else about this deal. I'm personally glad they didn't go get him.

I've been running on about E40 to E50 for many years... guess my warranty is shot!?

I'm fine "currently". I don't know if I'll be currently fine in three months though,  as I ain't touching my billion round stash (heh heh, everybody thinks DHS bought that).   - OS

After 11 pages of posts, what seems pretty clear to me is that those who always bash Yeager still bash him; but I guess that's to be expected. I don't and am not defending what he said or the way he said it; I think it was at best very foolish and will ultimately harm the firearms community. However, I think it more than a little dangerous that the State of Tennessee can suspend or revoke his HCP because of what he said or that he said it on video. A few pages ago I asked how suspending his HCP on the basis of him being a danger to the public (which if I understand correctly, was the basis for the suspension), makes the public safer? I think everyone here knows that the only answer is, it doesn't...it doesn't make anyone safer any more than declaring a school a "gun free zone" means children in that school will never have to worry about some evil/crazy person from coming into their school and opening fire. Maybe I'm just becoming a little overly sensitive to the rights I see eroding away but it troubles me that this state or any other state can take action like this based solely on what someone said in a video without any underlying physical act or obvious criminality involved...lets' hope they never invent "Pre Crime" (Minority Report) because if they ever do there are probably a few here on TGO who would have their HCP lifted along with James Yeager. At the very least, this situation shows me that we have a serious problem with the HCP process in Tennessee...unless there is an obvious and immediate physical threat, the state, in my opinion, should not be able to take this kind of action against an individual without due process.

Great. It'll fry my car and raise my grocery bill.

True story about myself: In September of 2001, I was so horrified by the tragedy of the Twin Towers going down that I vowed revenge and supported any and all legislation and actions that would potentially prevent any recurrence of the same. I called and emailed my representatives to support The Patriot Act and creation of Department of Homeland Security even though I knew the potential constitutional issues that existed (hell, I'm not an Islamic radical bent on the destruction of the United States, what do I have to worry about). Fast forward 8 years and I read Janet Napolitano's Terrorism Report. She might as well have named me personally (as well as the majority of the members of this forum) as an enemy of the state with what she described as the biggest terrorist threats. I realized right then that when I am willing to deprive others of their rights, I might as well give mine up too. We delude ourselves into thinking that we are unique. We try to separate ourselves from others in ideas and ideals without realizing that, generally speaking, we are an awful lot alike. If I am willing to allow the government to take away your rights for speaking in a way that is different from the way I would speak, at some point there will be nobody left to speak up for me. I disagree with nearly everything that Yeager said, but I'll be damned if I'll support a government that says he can't say it because at some point someone is going to find fault with my own speech.

We can draw a hard line in the sand and say F' you its our right and we don't care if my actions make you feel scared, threatened,etc. but it only fuels the fires to take the rights away. With the right to carry comes responsibility. Responsibility to pratice gun safety, be trained to use and handle it safely.  Responsibility to be courtious to the fellow man. Basically we raise the bar on our behavoir.   You want to carry your AR out in public have at it and enjoy the right in an appropriate place. But don't go walking down small town USA like some commando wannabe.  People will always see it as a threat.  I see a cop walking down the street I am OK because I trust he has been well trained. I see a cop carrying an AR I think some serious stuff must be going down somewhere. I see a civilian carrying an AR I raise an eyebrow. I don't know if this guy failed the 5th grade 10 times and just bought this with absolutely no training.   Basically if we dont exercise discresion in our judgemnt when and where to open carry the government will exercise it for us and we won't like the outcome.

Are we so scared that we won't exercise our OC rights because we might offend someone? we need to do it the right time and the right place and when is this? Do we now need a manual to let us know when and where or some one to tell us? The next question that's gonna come our way is why do we need OC if  we never OC?  We as gun owners better take a long hard look at our self and decide where to draw the line.

  +1, I bet the lawyers are laughing their asses off at all of us in here  :rock:

  So... you GetofftheX.com guys have had a chance to rally together, determine if there's a good chance or not of you getting fucked by the government right along with him, and have come out to support your guy and be brave now.   Ok.

I will say this OPSEC is the first part of preparing to meet you enemy. Yeager has forgotten this and laid out his plans for all the world to see. Now his tools to resist are going to be taken away. Just because someone doesn't want to jump on here or on national television and scream their plans doesn't mean they are cowards. What it does mean is they are not fools like Yeager. How effective can you be against an adversary if you tell the adversary what you are going to do? And anyone that does lay out their plans, on here or anywhere else, is a fool just like Yeager.   Yeager has secured his fate and ensured he will not have as many guns if anything kicks off. There are several alphabet agency's securing search warrants right now to seize his firearms, ammunition and his records. His fight is not going to stop with TDOS, the feds are going to use a sigmoidscope, shoved so far up his ass that it tickles his tonsils, to look for any more weapons before everything is said and done. We will read about it in a week or two about him having stockpiles of ammunition and weapons. As well as a few other things he isn't supposed to have. They are going to secure computers and financial records. Then he will be used as evidence in hearings that will no doubt have an impact on all of us legal gun owners.   Also, think about this. Yeager has probably kept records of every single student. He, and his alumni, could loosly be termed an "organization" by stating his alumni are "waitiing for orders". And with Yeager making threats like he has the feds are going to secure those lists during the search and begin looking into them. And Yeager gave them the ammunition, so to speak, to be able to do it. The secondary investigations may not go far but Yeager opened that door.   I can say without a doubt I have spent more time in his shoes while overseas than he ever has. I have worked for several companies and paid my dues during that time. And yes, I have taken fire and done so on more than one trip and multiple times each trip. I have lost several friends over there. I will not second guess what Yeager did during the ambush, it could have been his first. What I will second guess him on is his willingness to blame everyone else except himself in his reports after the fact. Did him taking the car out of gear cause those people to die? I don't know but it sure didn't help them live.   I have said it before and I will say it again, Yeager is a tool and has been for a very, very long time. He was fired from his LE job then got into contracting and was going to be fired from it as well had the “incident” not secured his fate with ERSM. He managed to find the only place he couldn't be fired from, his own company. But the feds are fixing to fire him from that one as well.   He has said in subsequent interviews he will kill anyone who tries to take his guns. I suspect he will get his chance.   Dolomite

Ok, I was not going to say anything because I will be shouted down, but late last year I made a promise to myself that I would no longer ignore a conversation because I thought I would lose. To do so give us the situation we find ourselves in now, with an uninformed population that uses the police as a weapon because they are scared by the sight of something.   A folk, no law was broken in the instances I have seen. If we do not stand up and come out of the closet we are going to become criminalized. Crime is a construct of society and does not necessarily follow intelligent or reasonable processes. I point you to the law in California where you cannot whistle at a whale as an example (maybe I am a dumb hick but I would not have thought that illegal until seeing the news story this week about it).   While I am not one to go out and open carry, many folks advocate doing so when I do something for recreation - hiking and backpacking. It is something I have considered. Perhaps instead of acting like those we criticize (think about the comments above that go on the feelings of the situation not the facts) we should structure our responses to say well that was unwise and I believe that it makes our lives harder as gun owners. It bothers me that we as a group are so divided – we have allowed anti-gunners to do that to us and it weakens us. Of course some outliers are going to be out there flapping, but hunters are unconcerned because they do not think their rights are at risk (and they are on the horizon too folks) and OC vs CC and on and on. We have compromised to much already. Let us compromise a little bit more down to a 10 round magazine then 8, then 5, then 1. It is a moral argument and one which must be challenged, stopped, and in some cases rolled back.   Now as to my feelings on this thread topic: if they were not breaking the law, then why not? Would it be that bad to have an organized gathering of gun owners who have their weapons with them?   No? Then consider what are USPCA and other shooting sports? What about when we gather for breakfast as a pro-gun club?   No it may have been unwise, but only because we have allowed our countrymen to become scared sheep. As gun owners we are supposed to be sheepdogs. Sheepdogs do not ridicule the sheep for being sheep - it is their nature.

Your walking down the street with your kids and you see these guys approach. Do you think to yourself oh look they are demonstrating their 2nd admendment rights  or are you thinking WTF are these guys up to. These guys may be f'ed in the head walking toward their first victim. What would you do?   IMO its not a smart thing to do?

He was getting off the X, but apparently the X was chasing him down the road...

Yeah, I guess they shouldn't have suspended his permit on account of him being a danger. They just need to look at his record of being a coward in a gunfight and know that he is no danger to society. I know, I know. Low blow again, but f*** him.

Where is this 'what law did he break' stuff coming from? Unless I'm mistaken, the state of TN doesn't have to prove you broke a law in order to revoke your HCP - they just have to feel you pose a threat by carrying. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not, drop the 'what law did he break' crap as it's a straw man.   I don't know Yeager from Adam, don't care to, so there's no bias here - but if someone starts claiming they're going to start killing folks because they don't care for a new law or whatever, I fully support the state of TN suspending their HCP. 

Yelling, "THE BUILDING IS ON FIRE" in a crowded theater is not protected speech so I bet it ain't smart to get on the grid and threaten to kill people in a very angry tone. Especially in our current state of affairs.

My stance is that the state done what was within their power.  A hand gun carry permit (like it or not) is a privilege, not a right.  The states do not have the right to completely deny your right to carry(Illinois is a good example), but they do have the right to regulate it (New York/NYC).  The Supreme Court has affirmed this in their court rulings regarding the Constitution.     Having a drivers license is not a right, it can be revoked at any time when the state has good lawful reason. The HCP is no different.  Notice that they are not taking his guns from him.  That is a right protected by the Constitution.     The First Amendment does protect your freedom of speech.  They are not prosecuting him for that.  They simply suspended his carry permit because he actually stated he will start killing people if the current administration moved on stringent gun control measures.  Who's to say what that "inch" really is to James?  Maybe to him it is simply another statement by the Obama Administration.  The state officials have to act accordingly.  Especially, when that person posts the video on the Internet for millions of people to see.  In the current climate, people are on edge.  It was not an intelligent move for him to do something like that.  All he accomplished was making gun owners look like loons.  Not good for the cause.  We are a VERY long way from any type of armed conflict, if at all.  Honestly, my hope is that we never get there.  It is the last thing we want to happen.  War is hell.  Also, does anyone really know what the outcome of a civil war would even be?  Would our Constitution still be the law of the land when the dust settles?  I prefer to win at the ballot box. I vote Republican.  Maybe all the Independents out there learned from this push by the left to ban guns and will vote Republican during the next election.  I think the Democrats showed their true colors during the last few weeks.  That is good for our side.   The state only suspended his HCP and I support that decision.  He will likely get it back after they think he has cooled down.  

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't use reason to arrive at.  You can't use the press to inform when the press is slanted against your position.  You can't use logic to shake an emotional faith.   Heck with it.  March on.

I have been trying to get rid of  :poop: Jim  :poop: Coo :poop:per  :poop:  for years.  He is like an bad smell that just won't leave.

How about a "this guy is off his meds" button?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/19/opinion/bennett-gun-rights/index.html

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/2013/01/12/north-revenge-of-the-o-team

No panic here. I was done stocking up about the time peanut head got reelected.

Actually, it was $5 for parking + $8 for admission. I didn't want to go, but I am one of the fools who waited too long to get an AR, and I needed some parts. I found what I needed for the lower half, but I may be SOL where the upper half is concerned. I'd like to get in before the possible ban, but I'm not giving in to these ridiculous prices.

No, we're definitely getting some of the Breast-Cancer-Awareness-Pink TGO White Wine Spritzer Coozies made too, but they only come in one size dammit.

I'll be making stickers.  Not going to be making anything else.   No offense but that's why I stopped doing swag in the first place.  One or two items wasn't enough; soon everyone wanted us to basically have a TGO Pro Shop and all I heard was "If it came in black..." or "If it was a can coozie instead of a key chain..." or "If it came in my size...." so I just f'ing quit doing it.   I'm not Wal-Mart.  TGO is what I do in the evenings and weekends when I should be spending time with my family.  It's not a full time job.  It'd have to be a full time job to do half the crap people want.   So... stickers.  That's it.  Not going to be anything else for the imminent future.

  Actually, the AAR basically said he SHOULD have attempted to drive off, and he did, but he screwed up by taking the car out of gear and setting the parking brake. When he freaked and couldn't get the parking brake off, he exited the vehicle, supressed fire for a few seconds, then ran for cover in the ditch. The biggest thing I found in the AAR is they state that he left the cover of the vehicle and retreated to an area where he could not return fire to the enemy. Which means he went and laid down while his guys got shot up and bled out. Despite all that, my biggest issue is the fact that he came home and talked crap about the guys who got killed and basically said their tactics sucked and that's why they died. Even if it's true, that's not something a professional does. Coward? Maybe, maybe not. Arrogant blowhard with an ego the size of Texas? In my opinion, definitely.

[quote name="RobertNashville" post="882354" timestamp="1357965662"]Is what James said really all that different than what many have been thinking in the privacy (or sometimes not so private) of their own thoughts? [/quote] Yes. Besides, there is a big difference between thinking something and saying it... intent or something along those lines. I fantasize about doing some very awful things to the Westboro Baptist Church guy, but if I come out and say, "if he protests one more Soldier funeral I'm gonna kill him", I have entered into a new territory. No, Yeager didn't make a threat specifically toward a person, so he didn't commit a crime as far as I know, but the sentiment of an unstable trigger happy roid-rager was clear to see. And it wasn't as if he said that he would shoot anyone trying to take his guns, he left off with, "if they move another inch I'm gonna start killing people." I don't know what that means. Do you? Certainly if I heard a heavily armed lunatic say that in any venue, I'm going to contact law enforcement, because I would feel as if someone's life is in imminent danger, wouldn't you?

  @ Jim Cooper, How about upholding the Constitution you swore to protect?

http://www.wsmv.com/story/20559458/tn-lawmakers-wary-of-any-new-federal-gun-laws

  I think they just tacked it onto the department name so they can stick their hand in your pants :)

You are trying to rip people off. Those beautiful Baer pistols are worth at least five Pmags.;)

M&P in all sizes

None of us knows what is going to happen long time.  If you're worried about it, don't submit the application.  I personally wouldn't be so concerned about NFA items being banned entirely, but that's just me.

All dead intruders are 100% deaf.