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I used to wonder at what point the American people would topple these little tyrants at the voting booth and then it occurred to me that with 50% of the public sucking at the government tit, that's just not going to happen.  Now I'm starting to wonder at what point the minority of Americans who still believe in the value of the Constitution are going to reach their limit and start imparting "change" by more dramatic means.

There's only one valid purpose for a million armed gun owners to assemble in Washington, D.C.   - OS

Remember the good ol' days, when people came to this forum and told us that nobody was going to try and take our guns? We were just a bunch of tinfoil hat wearing nutcases. Boy, those were the days. So long ago, and yet it seems like it was just earlier this year.....

Apparently, there's no tax on plinking cat turds.

Feinsteins' bill won't pass.  I would regard ANY compromise version as theft.   Frankly, the 'big push' for gun control everyone is talking about is coming from far left democratic politicians and mainstream media (pretty much the same thing).  The public has been voting on this for a couple of weeks now, with dollars, in the market.  The outcome of that 'poll of public opinion' should be crystal clear, to even the blindest of politicians.   Going to be really, really hard to make the 'common use doesn't apply' argument.    ATF can't manage the NFA registry now - this is common knowledge - they haven't a prayer of managing one that just expanded a thousandfold or more.    Feinstein and co. are thieves.  They are trying to steal not just goods (that can be replaced) but rights, which can't.  Let me make this clear - the gov't didn't grant the right in the first place, merely recognized it exists.   Molon Labe

I'm not going to worry about or lose one moment of sleep over this stupid "fiscal cliff". All the talk of "cuts" are nothing but hogwash anyway. There hasn't been an actual "cut" in spending in WDC in decades. All they ever "cut" is reduction of what they WANTED to spend but they still keep spending more than the year before and then more than the year before.  Besides, we all know that Speaker Boehner and the other Republicrats are going to fold and feed us bull shit while patting themselves on the back about how they held the line on spending and taxes. It is all going to come crashing down; it's just "when" that is the unknown...maybe it will be no longer pricing oil in dollars...maybe it will be interest rates rising to normal levels...maybe it will be something else but the house of cards that have been building since at least the early 60s and the frantic building of the last four years IS going to come crashing down on our heads.   I'm sorry that this is going to hurt some good people...real people who do necessary and even vital work for the federal government but it's going to hurt everyone no matter who they work for or if they work at all (likely in ways that most people haven't even imagined yet) but these seeds were sown many years ago and the crop is about to come in.

Let's ignore the real problem and just blame guns.

I'm not familiar with the breed, but I have had years of experience with Rottweilers. There is a group of monks in upstate New York who specifically breed and train Belgian Shepards, and they have a book about understanding and training large breed dogs which I read a long time ago. As I'm sure you understand, dogs are pack animals making it important to maintain alpha status particularly with a large dog. The dog is asserting and maintaining dominance in the pack order. You, as the alpha, need to let him know that he's the lowest member of the pack. Every little sign of aggression from the dog to any other family member should be met immediately with a response from you, and that response should be to roll him on his back and then growl at him him with teeth bared until he submits. Submitting is when the dog stops struggling and somewhat relaxes. That's a lot harder to do with a fully grown Rotty, but from the Google pictures of your breed it shouldn't be too hard. I just have to glare at my dog and it gets his attention. I do other things to maintain dominance as well such as never letting him win at a tugging game, or letting him walk in front of me on a leash. The shock collar isn't a good play IMHO. As Caster said, it gets a response, but is it the response that you want? What happens when you aren't there to shock him or show the collar?

I'm sorry that Uncle Sam going broke may impact you personally. For those of us who work in the private sector, if our employer goes broke, then we loose our jobs (well, with the exception of the auto and banking industry). Our employer doesn't turn a profit, or increase his revenue, we don't see a compensation increase. These concepts should apply to those working in the Government also. Any government employee can leave there job and find a private sector job just as I can change from employer to employer should the terms of my employment not suit my needs. So ... if slimming down the governments payroll means people loosing jobs, so be it. There are people out there creating jobs for hard workers, or even better, start a business and create some jobs for others! Also, trimming the abuse out of the entitlements should help also. Showing ID to see the new hit rated-R movie, but not to vote, or pick up food stamps is completely moronic.

If this thing even gets close to passing, we need a simple black and white banner. A picture of an AR, with the words, "I will not comply".

Don't use an ecollar for this... at least not as a primary corrective tool. That is for aversion training and obedience. I have an ecollar for my dog for emergency uses, but dogs have different titration levels, so zapping them for offenses (especially when they're being defensive) may not give you the results you're looking for. Not saying it wouldn't work, but there is the potential there to make the behavior toward your child worse. Dogs and kids are unpredictable. You have to train them both by getting them to understand what is acceptable and what isn't. The correction should come from you, and it should come as a dominant. The Caesar Milan approach makes sense, but you might need to be more aggressive in your response of aggression toward your child in regard to holding the neck and exposing the belly. Also, get your dog use to the kid petting it in a safe scenario. Have the dog positioned to where it can't nip the kid without you intervening. Not laying down though or in your lap. With mine, I have her standing up as I talk to her and stroke her as my daughter pets her sides and grabs on her. You have to make the dog comfortable with the kid. I have two dogs that are jungle gyms for my 3 and 1 year old. The third I'm working on as she has shown defensive behavior toward them. You just got to get the dog to a level of comfort, but do it safely and don't associate pain with interaction with the kids. It will take a long time. I'm still working on it, but my dog has come leaps and bounds in the past few months we've been doing this.

I have been saying that they are going to try to add AW to the NFA registry. I seen the writing on the wall and this WILL likely pass. All you have to do is realize there were enough to elect O for a second term to realize this is going to pass. And this is going to divide the gun community rather than bring us together. Bolt gun guys are going to be glad it isn't them, yet, and distance themselves from people like me. I will say I will not add any firearm I own to the NFA registry. Doing so will make them aware of what firearms I own. Might be time to have that boating accident. Dolomite

What father WOULDN'T want armed guards around his daughter when the boys come knocking?

What father doesn't joke about guns and daughters, but he said, "I always talk about..." meaning that he thinks about it often and for a long time. Perhaps he meant it as a joke, but there's usually an element of truth in every joke, and in this case it's a common thought process. I think it's hypocrisy in this case.

Voting for this piece of legislation is tantamount to treason, a violation of their oath of office and should be handled accordingly. The voting record will be evidence enough of their their treasonous actions and the people would be within their rights to skip directly to the punishment phase that is appropriate for their offenses against the Constitution, the nation, and the people of the United States.

  But that is probably because they have been helping members in need. That is what church and family is for, to help those in need. If the church has done all it can then that is great. They have done all they can and no one can fault them when they run out.   A problem I see every day is people think they are in need when they really are not. There are people who think having an XBox is a need or going to the movies once a week is a need or going to the salon or tanning is a need. None of these are needs. All a person needs to survive is food, water and shelter and an XBox provides none of that. If you look at the Christmas trees they put up for people to write their needs on you will see how spoiled some people have become.   I am not saying this for sympathy or to show I am better than anyone else but I know what it is to be in need. There have been times, early in my life, where I would rip the back seat out of the car searching for change. And the money I found was for a pack of spaghetti and a bottle of ketchup. And that was what my wife and I had for our dinner, boiled spaghetti that we then fried and used ketchup for the sauce. And during that time I would have loved to have had a nice television or a game console but it was not something I needed. I have never forgetten about that and even to this day I will pick up pennies off the ground because of it. And my childhood was just as bad if not worse because my father didn't believe in handouts in any form. We qualified for free school meals but my father wouldn't allow it. The school lunch was the best meal of the day most times. And for breakfast I almost always had warm milk poured over some toast.   There are a lot of people in this nation who do not know what it is like to actually need something. They confuse needs with wants.   A lot of people have an entitlement mindset anymore. If they see someone else receiving any benefits they want those same benefits even if they do not need them. And it has gotten so bad and out of control that there is no way to reform it without a complete collapse of the system. And if you think it isn't bad go stand at Walmart on the 2nd or 3rd of each month and watch how many people use EBT cards. It is also sickening to see what people are buying with the money we put into the system by way of our taxes. I see people with EBT cards buying beer all the time. The cashier rings up EVERYTHING then the customer swipes their EBT card and the register automatically deducts all the items the EBT card can purchase leaving the other items to be paid for in cash. If a person is using a EBT card because they need them to survive then alcohol should be the fathest from their minds. I know a lady who uses her EBT card to buy packs of tuna for her cats and she brags about it. She says she will continue until they let her buy catfood with her EBT card. And we are talking about the expensive packs of tuna that I feel guilty about buying 1/2 the time.   Want to fix the EBT fraud problem? First drug test all recipients. Second the person using it must show an ID and it must match the card. And finally, require all recipients to perform 8 hours of community service a week.   Anyone who goes to work for the government is required to get a drug test it should be the same for those who receive those same government funds. I want to make sure my tax money isn't being used for something illegal. Do random drug tests and 1st offense they loose benefits for a month. 2nd offense they loose benefits for 6 months. 3rd offense they loose benefits for life. If you are so down and out that you need these funds to survive you should not be wating them on illegal drugs.   Right now a person who is using a EBT card does NOT have to show an ID to verify who they are. The office that manages it says it is for privacy reasons even though the name is on the card. They also say if someone else is using the card then the owner of the card gave them permission. This makes it ripe for fraud where people are selling or trading the EBT benefits for something else, likely illegal items. Make it a requirement that the person, to whom the card is issued, be present for the purchase.   Every person who receives a paycheck in the real world works for it. Why is it that someone can receive free money without lifting so much as a finger. Even if it is just answering the phone from home for 8 hours a week it is work they are doing to get paid. Just that 8 hours once a week would force a lot of enrollees off the welfare rolls. And for those who are abled bodied they can pick up trash alongside the road or some other thing to improve the looks or performance of the community.   Something else, if you are not here legally you should not receive ANY money. Well let me rephrase. The benefits you receive should be in the form of a bus or plane ticket back to your country of origin.   Dolomite

  Although we disagree on shock collar usage, this is also very excellent advice. I learned about "dominance down" from my wife...the dog trainer of the family.  It works like a charm at establishing the "Alpha."   PS. Don't try this on said wife.  I still have the scars...  :mellow:   Anyway, we use "dominance down" for hierarchy issues and the collar for other behavior issues (barking, heeling, etc).

I think some may miss the point that government will just change the laws to suit them. This fiscal cliff crap is just for show. If they don't reach an agreement they'll just pass another law modifying the previous one to postpone or remove the consequences of the first law. The government isn't going to stop spending to suit us. They are money-hungry, power brokers who simply argue about how they steal our money, period!

    I know many, and the closest one resides with me.  She has been CERT trained so she is already expected to save lifes so why not let her defend them as well?  Make the rules simple again.  Come to a school or someone's home with intent to harm and get your butt shot.  You nor your family have any recourse beyond visiting in the hospital or the graveyard.  Even the mentally imbalanced seek the gun free zones to do their evil.  Make it known that those zones are few and far between.

I don't believe this for one second.   A ,22 not in a gun is not going to propel itself into someone's leg.   This dufus somehow shot himself and it had nothing to do with loose ammo hitting the floor.

if you didnt get anything come see me i will make it right for evferyone i had a good time so did my little dog rocco

Maybe the tax is embedded in the price on your other memberships. I'm with Vontar, I pay $120 per year for the family and it's STEAL!

Most of us die hards could easly cash in on the craze, but I for one did not acquire my thunder sticks for making money, I acquired them to have, to use, and to fill up a safe.  Once you sell, its gone forever (likey).  Instead of passing down a real legend to your kids, you can tell your kids of a legend that you once had...., but sold it to turn a profit. 

Your post sounds like you are getting ready to do something you know isn’t right and want someone’s stamp of approval. You will get all kinds of posts that anything you do is okay, free enterprise, supply and demand and all the that non-sense. But it’s your credibility, and your own personal moral compass that you have to look at. Unless you openly put a crazy azz price on it here, the only one that will know is you.   If all you want is the money; I would wait, this is just getting started.

  They'll find out if Feinstein's bill get's passed.

There's a difference between someone who's that evil to suggest that crap, and enough people who's that evil to be able to come into power, (involving both side of the political aisle), and actually be able to pull something like this off in this society.

The "alpha dog theory" was thought up in the 40s and is highly debatable / mostly debunked. Most animal experts contend that positive reinforcement and leading by example gain quicker and better results, and a lot of alpha training is just downright cruel. A lot of millan's methods are based on getting the owners mindset right, ie this is a dog and not a child, and positive reinforcement; his rolls and "pssts" are not. That being said, I use mostly positive reinforcement with the occasional "psst" to break up her concentration because my ridgeback is a bit dense sometimes. And for the record I've read two of millan's books, I own his (5?) DVD set, and I watched him religiously for a good two years. So I am very familiar with his work. If you can afford it, enroll your dog in a training class at Petsmart and take your daughter with you. If not, do some training at home to exercise his mind along with the walks. Hell, give the dog a treat if she is around and he doesn't growl. If he does turn and ignore him and have fun with her. It sounds like he's went through some changes and is stressed. Just my long winded 2¢ Sent from my SPH-L710 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2

  This is what I think. BUT...After the mid-term if they gain the house they will try again. And be successful. I guess it's a good thing I have sold every gun i own, including those pictured on this site....To some guy at the gun show of course...

[quote name='TGO David' timestamp='1356627961' post='869757']I used to wonder at what point the American people would topple these little tyrants at the voting booth and then it occurred to me that with 50% of the public sucking at the government tit, that's just not going to happen. Now I'm starting to wonder at what point the minority of Americans who still believe in the value of the Constitution are going to reach their limit and start imparting "change" by more dramatic means.[/quote] Agree. I've never felt so much frustration with the intelligence of the voting populace as I have lately. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can only speak as a former LEO, but I believe that it would take a completely passed law that has undergone challenge in the Supreme Court for me to obey a confiscation law. But I do recognize Dolomite's point. I knew plenty of officers who had no problem breaking the law in order to "win" against the bad guy because they "fight fire with fire." It's one of the reasons that I left law enforcement: I couldn't stand the corruption, and I'm not talking about just in my town.

Assuming you make it in 2 days you may have enough.  I have my bag set for 5 days, so I have a bit more than you  and a bit further to travel.  Things I suggest: extra socks (watch Forrest Gump), a tootbrush (trust me it makes a world of differnce), super glue (for first aid and repairs), a boy scout cooking set (lightweight), and my water purification thing.  I have one of the kits that converts nasty water into a sports drink like gatorade or something.  I have never used it and hope it works and doesn't taste bad.

So she balked on the no grandfathering and replaced it with NFA controlled grandfathering. She probably had to concede that no grandfathering that she was proclaiming a few weeks ago, but making potentially millions of firearms NFA items...that's huge.    A few around here are sleeping peacefully because they don't feel anything major would get through the house. I personally, wonder about stuff like this at night!

I'm sorry guys, I've been wiped out by work this past few weeks. I have this weekend to rest, so I will be trying to get a few things sorted out with a couple folks here.   I feel like overall it went pretty well this year for the first time doing this. I do think I will be doing things slightly different next year. Lessons learned, and all that.

Nice. Line 3  needs to be fixed......... "they way they"

  I'll let you in on a little secret, there have been no pro gun laws passed since the Republican party took over complete control of the legislature.  They don't believe in your 2nd Amendment rights unless they can use it as a wedge issue to win elections...  As soon as they are in power, no more gun bills pass.   There are pro-gun legislatures in this country, TN isn't one of them I'm sorry to say.  They still pass unconstitutional laws (both from a federal as well as a state constitutional level), and refuse to view the right to own and carry a firearm as anything more than a privledge they grant us. 

There has to be more to this story.

Most Congresspeople have no clue whether they are washing or hanging out.

Since the ascension of Beth Harwell to the Speaker's position and Bill Haslam to Governor, there have been NO pro gun laws passed in TN.

I carry a PM 9, same dimensions as CM9 daily in cargo pants (using the regular pocket). Using StellarRigs pocket holster, the extra 6 round mag doesn't take up any more room that the pistol without it. - OS

They did mention that 2 million people will lose their unemployment benefits. Not sure what to make of that but my gut feeling is if they were looking for work, rather than just sitting around, it would help the economy. Remember these are the people who have been collecting for over a year now. And along with unemployment benefits they are likely receiving food stamps, housing subsidies as well as healthcare in some states. All those benefits cost the taxpayer as well as increase our national debt.  And it is those of us that work that are going to replay that debt.   If someone is so hard up for food I am sure their family or their church would be glad to help them. But there are some that think having a Playstation for Christmas is a necessity.  Or thinking it is a requirement that they have a 60” television to watch their HD cable on. If you are on governemnt assistance you should have enough to eat, clothe your bodies (an not with brand names), heat your home and not much else.   Dolomite

Meh, not so much. The folks who would have made those types of arguments deleted me after I wouldn't let the last round of idiotic, emotionally based calls for more gun control laws go unanswered. They don't like it when you use logic and reason to bitchslap them.

As I thought, business as usual for the Federal Government, when we go over the Fiscal Cliff.  Oh there will be temporary appropriate cuts in travel and technology and other things like that, but nothing meaningful. They will hold off furloughs and lay-offs as long as possible and cut in other areas.  Most likely, our vaunted Legislators on both sides will find a way to climb back up that Fiscal Cliff and no one will lose a job and nothing will be cut permanently.  No needless and duplicate programs will be gone.  The Leaders on both sides of the aisle, will make sure that nothing is cut.  There will be no downsizing in Government, because downsizing means someone loses their power and they can't have that in Washington D.C. Both sides want that power in place, when they are in control.

If you can't find 148 wadcutters, try 130 metal case- they are very mild.

There's a lot of folks who feel pretty strongly that The Obammunist didn't win the election outright, that there was industrial strength "Chicago Style" voter fraud on an unprecedented scale. It hasn't been challenged, so he's going to be re-inaugurated as president.   What it does mean, though, and you can feel it, is that a bare majority of the country can't stand him and isn't interested in working with him. That suppressed majority is in position to create much legislative trouble for him and his dictatorial aims. Much of this trouble will act out in the State Legislatures, which in many States are now Republican/Conservative/Libertarian to a very great degree. Thirty or more State Governors and their legislatures will fight him tooth and nail, and the harder The Obammunist pushes, the harder they will push back. You can hear the noise now in the various legislatures with Right to Work, With 10th Amendment Sovereignty, with refusal to State-support Obamacare, with broader 2nd Amendment and Concealed Carry stances. All hope is not lost for opposing an increasingly Tyrannical federal government led by a Dictator in Waiting.

 I see this as a " no win "  for the gun owner. I personally do not believe that there should be NFA items and all items in the firearm field should be legal for the law abiding citizen. The Tommy gun and others weapons were given the bad name by CRIMINALS who were evil. So now only if you have enough money and can jump through enough hoops , you can own a piece of history that was used in WW 2 .    The gun owning American lost part of there rights when the NFA was passed. Then in 1986 they banned  the future production  of full auto for the civilian market. So now you have limited the maket to what was alredy made. All they did was set the price to the sky . What about the old guy who had a Thompson or M1 carbine or other full auto and for some reason or another , never registered it . He now has an illeagal weapon that can get him many years in jail and thousand of dollars in fines.     What did he do to hurt anyone. Maybe he didn't have the money for the 200.00 stamp . Maybe he was fearful of his Government and figured that someone would be coming after it . Now we may be faced with the same thing. How many of these guns would just end up as an illeagal weapon ? How many people in this day and age , with the current " booming" economy  , could afford to pay 200.00 per weapon to register it ?  What if they make you register each magazine with a stamp like they do a silencer ? A silencer is attached to a weapon and by itself is just a piece of metal , yet they are classified as a weapon and must be registered as a NFA item with a 200.00 stamp .    Of coarse , all this is just speculation , but I don't see the gun owner as able to not loose something in this . Whetther it is just a ban like Clinton did or worse . Looking at the previous track record , I see the biggest thing they will do is make it perminant and not run out in 10 years. The average person who has an AR , AK or other nice " evil " rifle ,pistol or magazine , that is his or her pride and joy , and obeys all the firearms laws will be faced with the choise of paying a fine to kepp there own legally obtained property or sending it into the never to be legal firearm and just ignore the 200.00 stamp and registration !      Our Government is very good at making stupid laws and adding laws on top of laws . What does it matter if someone beaks 1 or 5 laws when comes to it. Just inforce the 1 and move on. We have very few in congress with a backbone and even less with a brain. We have lost our rights everytime in the past , little by little . I hate to say it but we had more people with brains 40 years ago than we have now. They have been teaching that guns are evil but it is the prople who are evil. So the brain washed morons don't remember that we had to send weapons to Britan at the begining of WW 2 so they could DEFEND there own homeland.   What a sad state we are in. This man says it pretty good . Just check out (  Chuck Woolery on assult weapons ) on you tube. Very smart man and very well said .  Sorry for the rant .

M1A and never look back.

People are standing together. The people that elected Obama stood together while we were split and they defeated us at the polls. The only way we will win is at the polls. Some of us here tend to get distracted by shiny objects and third party candidates that have absolutely no chance of winning. We (Conservative Republicans) are not united, and the republican party has done a terrible job of getting someone to run that is electable.

I have posted these stories before but there are dealers who rape the local stores and buy EVERYTHING. Then they mark the ammo up 200%-300%. I wish I could start a thread of those gouging dealers so we could refuse to buy from them and put them out of business when they need us during normal times.   All dealers need their customers to survive during normal times. If we could just remember paying $40 a brick for 22 when things settle down then refuse to buy from that dealer then he would be forced out of business and never gouge us again. Dealers need us to survive during normal times. The show in Knoxville next week will have tons of guns with Walmart tags on them, guaranteed. And most will be marked up 30%-50%. Same thing with the ammo they buy from Walmart. They create the shortage by buying up everything just so they can make a windfall. And as far as Walmart goes, when was the last time you seen them gouge? As a matter of fact I have seen them drop prices when other dealers are raising prices.   Dealers are going to mark things up but it is us, the customers, that so easily forget that they did. I know there are several dealers at the gun shows that I refuse to buy from and tell anyone who will listen to not buy from them as well. I have even stood right in front of the dealer and told potential customers that they don't want to buy from him and why. Every single one of the dealers I refuse to buy from have proven, time and time again, to be an enemy to their customers.   The problem with gouging is this. It will cause the prices to elevate and never come down. A dealer marks his ammo up and realizes people will pay that elevated price so he never reduces his prices. The distributors realize that the dealers are making a windfall so the distributors raise their prices to secure more of the profits. And then when the dealer has to ask elevated prices because he paid elevated prices the dealer will not come down to where it was before he raised prices, at least not without loosing money. The dealer starts the madness not realizing he is the one who will get screwed but only second to the customer. And that is where the solution lies, the customer. If we all decided to wait a few weeks to buy what we NEEDED demand wouldn't have shot up and in turn the prices wouldn't have shot up. Nothing, prices or supply, would have changed from where it has been for the last 2-3 months.   Know what I bought when news broke of an impending shortage? Nothing. Why? because I have slowly, over the course of a few years, gathered what I need. And I can honestly say there is nothing I need and not a whole lot of things I want to be able to continue to shoot like normal.   Dolomite

I hate it when my Spidey sense goes off and a scary idea pops into my melon...   How many can see them posting TSA goons in schools?  Has nothing to do with the T part, but that doesn't matter to big-Gubmnt.  Most people would relate TSA to airports, but we've already got TSA/DHS Viper program operating on TN interstate highways.  No one thought that would ever happen either.