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Absolutely THE best article to date!  Some stunning facts, and truth's regarding today's mental illness epidemic and associated gun violence due to mental illness.   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html   http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother    

Problem is they are about 15 years too late on the ass beating. Dolomite

This was NOT the place to bring up politics .... Disgraceful ....

The article really makes you stop and think about how many parents there are out there, that are dealing with this on a daily basis.  It also makes me appreciate my children even more!

Feinstein and Bloomberg seemed almost giddy this morning that this terrible tragedy took place. I don't know about you all, but I consider people who try to profit politically as well as financially from the folks who have lost their children and loved ones little better than the shooter himself. Hell isn't hot enough for either.

I say be weary of mental health diagnosis. My kids spent one year in public school when they were young. With the help of my mother in law (retired teacher with her masters degree) my kids were well prepared when they began school. The work was too easy and when my kids were not challenged academically they wanted to play. Long story short they wanted my twins to get evaluated. My wife and I evaluated the public school system and decided that we would bite the bullet and pay for private school. Today my babies are juniors with exceptional grades and zero behavioral or discipline issues. If you suspect that there is a problem, by all means please get your baby some help. Don't let a lazy teacher or impatient relative talk you into needlessly putting your kids on meds.

So the wife and I went to Cool Springs mall to do some Christmas shopping (actually she did and just took me along), I was planted our in the foyer when some wannabe thugs/punks were walking around the top throwing change at people down below (terrible aim too, they missed everyone). I spotted one before he disappeared into the crowd, and performed handicapped ninja moves to get up the escalator and track them down.   They had went over to another section above the Apple store, getting ready to start throwing things again so I put on my old crazy guy face, pulled out a dollar bill and sat next to them on the bench rubbing against them (mind you there was plenty of empty space and other places to sit, I just wanted to make them uncomfortable). Looked at one of them and asked if they had change for a dollar, scooted a little closer and asked louder. One of them got puffy and another guy said no, and I said "that's a shame, cause I can't afford to throw dollars over the balcony, I prefer to use nickels instead"    All three of them took off & me being the ass that I am, I spent another 10 minutes following them staring, and making sure they seen me. They went over to the food court and I disappeared for a few minutes, went around the back way, snuck up behind them and sat down at the table and asked "You got change for a dollar?"  It creeped them out so bad they left their drinks on the table and bolted for the door   Should've probably just called security on them, but it wouldn't have been as fun  :rofl:

Biggest question is why the sudden rise in "mental health cases"? Sure there is more reported now than in the past, but why the associated violence. If it were just a reporting issue then there would have had to been more cases of mass assault in the past, but that is not the case. I have believed this for some time that the main common factor is a shift in societal response to mental issues. We want to use drugs to alter people who may or may not be chemically altered already and in doing so I believe we are making mountains out of mole hills.   I watched my mother teach the "problem kids" in school who enjoyed learning in her class room. When she taught there was very little class disruption. Her "trick"? Teach each kid at his own pace. Some kids learn faster than others some learn slower. Most teachers can only teach at the speed they themselves learn which is usually in the middle leaving the fast kids bored and the slower kids frustrated. When these kids get frustrated or bored bad things begin to happen. When bad things happen our societal response is medication.    It has been shown that only about 5% of children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD actually have a chemical imbalance and most of those children have imbalances due to prenatal drug abuse or some other outside chemical influence ie lead poising etc. However, the vast majority of kids with "diagnosed" ADD/ADHD are on some form of medication often times very strong medications. Chemically altering a child's mind that is in varied stages of development can not be a good thing.   I'm not against medication, but I believe that it is another way in which our society has taken responsibility out of the individuals hands and in turn blame something else. You have behavioral issues? - medicate. Home problems? - medicate. Relationship issue? - medicate. Coping issues? - medicate. IMO, Most of these kids just need structure, discipline, or a little different teaching approach and they can learn and behave as well as any "normal" kid.   Help them to learn that each individual is unique and different and that is is up to them to find a way to make it through. Most will need help along the way, but chemically making them "normal" doesn't seem to be working.

  And how sad that the ultimate constitutional argument for having "guns that are only made to kill people" is one we can't really use -- that it's in there because it might become necessary to remove a tyrannical government.   Sad that using the true intent of 2A can't be argued because well over half the citizenry sees that as ultimate full tilt bozo wacko point of view.   - OS

This isn't 1994, some in the population will see this as a violation of our 2nd Amendment rights, and more death will result from an AWB being passed.  Many can barely stand what is going on today, any move to disarm otherwise law abiding citizens will be seen as a move too far by the federal government.  Most on this forum think TN's relatively relaxed firearm laws are a violation on our God given rights already.   There is a reason why almost every police department in this country uses these types of firearms, they are an effective tool in protecting the officers, that therefore means they are a valuable tool for citizens protecting themselves, as such any ban on new (let alone a ban on current owned) firearms, magazines, or ammo would be a clear violation of our God given freedoms, and would remove the legitimacy of any government passing or enforcing those laws.   If our government breaks the social contract, then freemen (and women) are no longer bound by that social contract to allow tyrants to stay in power, any force is then reasonable to remove said tyrants from power.

She has an assault weapon ban in her back pocket, at a moments notice just waiting for a "good" tragedy to whip it out.

I'd like to clarify that my heart goes out to those directly affected by this tragedy and that although I usually can be somewhat heartless even I was more than shook up by this. As I said originally I was not trying to bring up any political issues about how stricter gun control is not the answer, about what Obama will do or any of that nonsense. I posted it in the political issues forum because it had to do with the president. After his addressing the issue I was incredibly shocked to see what seemed to me as him faking emotion and robotically reading from cue cards with less emotion then he has shown anytime he's blasted Congress for not passing some bill of his, or that he showed during the debates. I was merely curious as to whether or not I was mistakenly percieving this or it seemed to others to be happening as well.

Regarding "some attempt by Obama to start a national "debate", and that's perhaps a good thing (no harm in expressing points of view)"   Actually, I do see harm in this, and here's how: It won't be an actual national 'debate.' All points of view will NOT be expressed in the percentages that exist in the country. The "points of view" will be manipulated by the media, and anti-gun forces will get the lion's share of attention and support. It would be like holding a debate in which the anti-gun creatures get an hour to make their points, and pro-gun forces get three minutes to make their points, with the moderator mocking them and interrupting the whole time.   THAT is the type of "national debate' they'll be looking for. It will be masterfully manipulated.

  I recall another term for it growing up in Midtown that would shock most folks these days, even here.   :lol:

Too much logic and common sense to be understood by the media and the masses. You are most certainly right, but getting that out, and understood, by the average uninformed person in the street is next to impossible.

In relation to this story, an ex NYPD officer/detective was on Fox News this morning saying the same thing!  I figured, logic from the NYPD would certainly not be pro gun!   He was stating teachers need to be armed & trained in all of our schools and we need to do away with gun free zones entirely!   I couldn't agree more!

With all the talk of “Gun Law Dialogue” the media has completely missed an important point. Connecticut already has in place all of the provisions being discussed . Purchase permits, involving screening by local, state and federal agencies is already the law. Gun show dealers have to obtain background checks. Pistol purchase permits are required  at gun shows.  There is already a federal law prohibiting the purchase of handguns out of state. There is already  a federal law prohibiting the purchase or ownership of a handgun by anyone under twenty one years of age (shooter was twenty years old). There is already a Federal law and a state law prohibiting firearms on school grounds or in school buildings.   Everything that the media says they want done, was already done. The laws were in effect in Connecticut at the time of this shooting. Gun Control was already the law of the land in Connecticut.   All of these laws, already in force, did not stop the death of twenty small children and 6 adults. This incident is not a “cry for change” as the press is bugling over the airways. We should be looking at gun control as having been accomplished and yet did not stop the violence. Ergo, we have something else that is the problem. There seems to have been no long history of mental health problems that could have flagged this killer. A twenty year old is going to be able to over ride any security measures to secure the weapons from his grasp. It is entirely possible that there was nothing that anybody could have done to prevent this tragedy.   The only person I see that could possibly have stopped this was his mother and she is dead so we can't ask her.

I've been pretty upfront with my view that we are getting closer and closer to all hell breaking loose. I won't share what my line is, but as I have said before, y'all should figure out where your own line is. Our government seems intent on crossing all of them.

Not close enough yet. Closer than before. Not discussing my tipping point.

As someone in the mental health field let me say that there is a need for inpatient centers and/or residential programs for situations like this. I work outpatient and once a week therapy and Med evaluation is not enough for some patients.

Unless all the Wally's are sold out too, the Colt and the Windham and maybe the M&P model they sell too, are quite good bargains. At least they stay at the same price. So far anyway. Probably about the same price as a Sport is likely gonna be jacked up to right now.   - OS

It's not a matter of 'should they be made to' because of course they should not. The bat rastards oughta have the damn common courtesy to let the little ones rest in peace instead of turning it into a ratings game. Likewise, it would be fine with me to make it legal to shoot these reporters in the face for knocking on the doors of the families to ask them how it feels to have a dead kid. The media is heartless family of vacuous ghouls.

Thanks to all the ladies and gentleman who came out. Great to meet people and have an open conversation wih all of you. Hope I was able to give some new information. Please pardon the long winded attorney. I will try to keep it a bit shorter next time. Also, whoever picked up my check, thanks. Wasn't necessary, though.

I actually enjoyed his speech up to the gun control part. 

  Hope yer more thorough will all them gauges and whatnot in the cockpit. :taunt:

Obama is speaking at the high school now...it started out good, now it's not sounding so good for gun owners...

Perfect timing if I do say so myself!  Couldn't have scripted it any better for the soon to be POTUS in 2016 .... :ugh:

As one of the commenters said, "Now that's a special kind of stupid."

The ole Fiscal Cliff doesn't seem all that steep now, does it?   Hillary smacks her dome just in time for the Bengazi hearings to be whitewashed without her, so that'll quietly be the end to that, too.   - OS

I'm a small business owner and would volunteer 1 day during the week to provide such a service to our local school district :)  My son will be starting there in about 4 years, but would start ASAP.   I know of a couple others that likely would as well. 

I'm so tired of hearing my associates say that there are too many guns. I guess that they are expecting Batman to save them when they get in a jam. Even my baby girl said "daddy the gun can't do anything by itself".

I was born and raised in MI .......... SW MI as a matter of fact. It's sad to see what has, and still is, happening to my home state ......   The unfortunate thing for Michiganders is that the majority of residents and districts that are typically Non-Union are often "represented" by the much heavier unionized districts such as those surrounding Detroit. The area I grew up in, Grand Rapids/Holland area, was mainly Non-Union - but was a major part/component supplier for the big 3 and almost every other automotive manufacturer in existence. When most people think "union" the UAW instantly comes to mind - but there are many other unions out there such as Electrical workers, Pipe fitters, Welders, Carpenters, Painters, Iron Fitters, Boilermakers, Shipbuilders, Teamsters, Railroad, Teachers, Bakers, Law Enforcement, Firefighters, etc... Being raised non-union most of my life, I was taught to despise unions and everything that goes along with them. Now that I am older and have experience working with, around and for different unions, I see both sides of the unionized and non-unionized labor force and some of the things that each stands for. I simply feel that unions do still have their place in America. I believe unionized labor has many good points, especially the skilled labor force that has no equal, but unions also have an equal or greater amount of bad points due to laziness, greed, power and politics. The union can be a great tool to protect workers in many, many ways - but it can just as easily be used to protect poor employees, bully employers, sway political votes and threaten anyone who gets in the way. Unions are a money generating machine with the power of hundreds of thousands of workers behind them that can easily influence local, state and national politics as we just witnessed in the last election. Below is a small example of what I have come to understand/witness first hand ......... Pros- Workers have a voice (together as a group vs single employee) Workers have protection from employer abuse, firing and neglect Workers have out of pocket benefit costs reduced due to large group discounts Workers/Skilled trades usually have proper training standards including apprenticeships where applicable Workers stand up for other union members - regardless of union affiliation Cons- Workers have too many rights in certain cases Poor workers/lazy workers are protected by the union Saturation of non-productive work force Waste of member union dues on union parties, conventions, politics, etc. Pressure on workers to vote/think/act the "union way" Thug mentality I am one of the few people that feel the unions can be a good organization used to protect the workforce - but unfortunately, just like politics, it's mostly operated and controlled by greed and power. A few examples of both sides of the fence ....... 1. A great teacher with tenure and many years of service and experience is replaced by a teacher who just graduated college with no tenure or experience due to budget cuts to the school. 2. A great worker with many years of service and experience is replaced by a new worker with no time or experience due to wage, benefit and vacation cost difference to the employer. 3. A great skilled trades worker with the proper training, education, background and skill set is replaced by a worker with little to no training or skills due to wage, benefit and vacation cost difference to the employer - putting both the new employee and those around him/her, as well as the employer, at risk. 4. A tenured teacher who could care less about teaching and preparing students for the future is protected and cannot be fired. 5. A worker who continually abuses the system, misses work, files injury claims etc. is protected and cannot be fired. 6. A worker who threatens, bullies or intimidates others is protected and cannot be fired. 7. A great worker who is 60 years old, who worked for the same company for 42 years, who never missed a day of work and has an excellent work record is replaced by an 18 year old worker just out of high school due to the company reorganizing - which really means the employer is shaving costs by hiring a new employee at a much lower wage and overall expense. Now this same 60 year old worker must go back out into the workforce and will be viewed as too old or over-experienced for most jobs.

this is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.  No one in their right mind would do any of these shootings. 

"According to investigators, one of the men had purchased a 9mm Highpoint and had attempted to load it when the weapon discharged for some reason"     Two things, it fired cause something pulled the trigger and WTH were they doing loading a firearm up at a gun show?

[quote name="6.8 AR" post="861290" time="1355680832"]Now, aren't they a bunch to be proud of?   All they are is a group of government thug intimidators. They have never caught anyone in line with their mission, have they?[/quote] Everyday. Contrary to popular TGO belief their "mission" includes more than catching grenade wielding terrorists. Like it or not any time they prevent someone from boarding with contraband, they've succeeded. That includes numerous firearms, every week that somehow got "forgotten" in carry on baggage. Of course that does seem to be a problem, after all someone stupid enough to forget their gun in their baggage is exactly who I want armed next to me on a plane. I mean it just says so much about somebody's good judgment when they "forget" they've got a gun with them. Like I've said in other threads, is the TSA some kind of thing to be celebrated? No. Are they violating anyone's rights? No, flying is not a right, you make the choice to subject yourself every time you pay for a ticket. Do we have much bigger problems in our government than the TSA? Uh, yes.

We can't lock up the crazies and hang murderers.  That would be too inhumane.  It's definitely better to take people's guns away and create more innocent victims.  Don't you know?  That's Liberal Logic 101!!!

I was reading on "Truth About Guns", and this arthor wrote:  "Originally mooted as an emergency measure to deal with U.S. to Mexico gun smuggling, the ATF registry morphed into a pilot program.  Which will now automatically renew.  The registry was created by Executive Order, bypassing Congress and violating federal rules against the creation of any federal gun registry.  After a trip to court, the long gun registry was unleashed".  If you want to read the whole article for yourself, here is the link:  http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/12/robert-farago/obama-executive-order-banning-assault-rifles/#more-178607   I honestly believe under the pre-text of an emergency measure, a EO on assault weapons can easily be signed.  What congressman would stand on the floor of the House and Senate in the wake of what just happened, and shout that a AR, AK, etc. should not be banned.  I believe BHO will strike while its HOT.  Becuase if this goes into a debate, and over time, people have short term memories, an AWB would likely not pass.  Be mindful, BHO is a lame duck now.  He has nothing to lose.  He can show fellow democrats there is nothing to fear, the american people have endorsed him and his idealogy, just look at the most recent election, and just like sheep, the dems. will think they are bullet proof.

Glad you liked it.. :)   I got to the post office and was thinking .. whats his first and last  name..lol   I said ahh hell with it.. its Spots ..:)

  Oh really? The recent Dream Act Lite done by EO that flies in the face of US immigration law comes to mind.   - OS

  The House can start them, but why, if the Senate won't try him.   - OS

And from Thursday, we get this:   http://www.tennessean.com/article/20121214/news/312140117/lt-gov-ron-ramsey-outlines-compromise-gun-bill   "Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey said his office is working on a measure that would require employers to allow firearms in their parking lots. But businesses that provide secured parking for their employees would be able to demand that their workers show them they have a valid permit to carry a handgun and could keep that registration on file."...   "Ramsey’s proposal that workers should have to place their permits on file would apply only to employers who offer secured parking. Businesses that have open parking lots or parking that is shared with the public would not be able to demand permits.   "Ramsey said his proposal also makes no distinctions for educational institutions, which have been among the strongest opponents of guns-in-trunks legislation. Gov. Bill Haslam has said he would oppose any bill that does not allow colleges and universities to ban firearms on their campuses.   “What’s campuses got to do with it?” Ramsey said. “We’re talking about your automobile. We’re not talking about where you are. We’re talking about your car.”

According to body language expert Tonya Reiman, a good liar can look you right in the face while he tells a whopper.  She says that to detect if a person is lying or not, look for other body signs which may be a giveaway.  Among them is rubbing the eye.   http://www.tonyareiman.com/articles/Liar_Liar_Pants_on_fire

Only the law-abiding abide the law..There simply is no amount of legislation that can prevent a sick person from doing sick stuff. Prayers to the families.

I believe a simple mention of it and extending sympathy to those involved would have been appropriate and sufficient. 

if he genuinely cared about the children of America, why the 16 trillion dollar debt?

Unfortunately, the libtards began screaming confiscation before the blood was dry. I can only take so much of that before I fire back.

Ya'll need to lighten up on the conspiracy theory shit.  Simple fact is this country is full of retards prone to violence.

  The pits of hell are NOT good enough for these less than human monsters!   Everyone, love your children, hug them and tell them you love them every day as many times as you can!

[quote name='JayC' timestamp='1354846930' post='856210'] Why pass laws when you can wait until you're the minority again and reuse the 2nd amendment as a wedge issue The party doesn't support the 2nd amendment unless it serves some political purpose. Stop electing RINOs [/quote] On this JayC, we agree 100%.