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soooo glad I really don't have asshat neighbors, LOL they probably think I am that guy

[quote name='QuietDan' timestamp='1353288392' post='847886'] I've been away from this soap opera for a week or so. Did I miss anything? No? Didn't think so. Anyone convince anyone about anything? No? Didn't think so. [/quote] Actually the OP was just two days ago, and it referenced the fact that we MIGHT have convinced Lt. Gov. Ramsey to back the ability of a permit holder to have his weapon stored in their vehicle while at work on the majority of parking lots, like 19 other States have done... DaveTN convinced me we have no firearms Rights in Tennessee, Life and Law Enforcement of Weakly County, TN (Sheriff's Department and DA) convinced me we have no Private Property Rights.

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1353284209' post='847852'] I worked off duty security for a company that had very large tanks of flammable liquids the grounds. They had several plants, but the one that had those tanks did not allow firearms on the property or in vehicles in the parking lots of that one plant. For you guys that think you have a right to have a gun in a parking lot, how are you going to respond to the companies that claim a very real safety risk of having guns in the vicinity of hazardous/flammable/explosive materials? Are you and your state legislators in better position to determine those risks than the experts that use the products or processes? [/quote] So that weapon in the car out in the parking lot is going set the flammables off without any person pulling the trigger? Denying the legitimate, licensed permit holder the ability to keep a weapon locked up in the parking lot is going to make it more dangerous than the thug that does not abide by the law and has one in their vehicle now?

Does he have a second sign for the other gun grabbing presidential candidate?

If the nutcase purchased the knife at the store how did he get it out of the fiendish packaging to commence his rampage?

[quote name='JayC' timestamp='1353251602' post='847603']I'm sorry but it is a progressive argument that somehow societies 'feelings/whims' trump a persons property rights. I'm not suggesting that progressives haven't been very successful in getting courts to violate those rights for the last few decades, but it doesn't change the fact that property rights are a natural right, the same as the right to own and carry a gun is a natural right, and the government has no legitimate reason to violate either of them. I'm never going to post a business I own, when certain laws were changed a few years back, I got into a number of arguments with progressive leaning members of the family on why we should not post our family owned business... I even had to fire an employee who answered the phone and told a customer we would be posting. (BTW that is the only time I've lost an unemployment claim but that is an entirely different story) But, I should have full control over my business, I should be able to ban carry over the entire property if I so (IMHO incorrectly) choose. Like with any other policy I make, employees who don't like it can find another job... Customers can do business elsewhere if they don't like the policies. Somebody else will come along and cater to those folks, and get their business and labor if they so choose. I use to work for a corporation that prohibited carry for employees, and it was one of the reasons I choose to leave and start my own business. I make less money, but I don't have to disarm everyday to go to work... Nobody is forced to work somewhere they must disarm, they choose to... That is their choice. Again, we should be focused on removing stupid laws, and laws that prohibit carry n government control lands and buildings... because none of us have a choice when it comes to those locations... Not try and tell some business person he must do something he fundamentally disagrees with.[/quote] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]This is not about feelings or whims; it’s about laws and the good of society at large. Is it “[i]progressive[/i]” of me to want zoning laws in my city so that my next door neighbor can’t suddenly decide to convert his “private property” into a petting zoo or a garbage dump or a half-way house for child molesters? Is it “[i]progressive[/i]” for me to believe that I should be able to control the contents of my vehicle provided the contents are legal to own/have in my vehicle? Is it “[i]progressive[/i]” of me to believe that a restaurant shouldn’t be allowed to refuse to serve a black man or a Chinese woman because of their respective races or to think that a business shouldn't be able to require employees to work 16 or 20 hour days or even force eight year old children to do the same? If the above examples are examples of “[i]progressiveism[/i]” then color me progressive but I suggest that there is nothing libertarian or conservative or patriotic OR Constitutional in allowing anyone/any business/any property owner to do whatever the hell he wants to do on or with his "property" with no regards to anyone else or regards to society at large. Most of the laws we have regulating what property owners and businesses can and can’t do on their “property” or in running their business exist in response to the sometimes idiotic and sometimes even dangerous things that property owners/businesses have done that harmed others/society and while we probably have far too many laws and regulations, on the whole, I say such laws and regulations are a good thing, even “Constitutional”...even conservative. The government certainly can have legitimate reasons for infringing on or even completely taking our rights away, including, among others, the right to keep and bear arms and the right to own property - our founders understood that which is why we have the 5[sup]th[/sup] Amendment. If you believe the courts have blundered in upholding these laws then please explain how they have done so…show specifically how a legal, inert thing, whether it’s a firearm or a set of golf clubs locked inside of a vehicle while parked on a piece of ground provided for the purpose of parking vehicles is a violation of the takings clause.[/font][/size] Until you or someone can do that, I'll remain, "[i]progressive[/i]" and armed. -------------------- I believe we are left with two issues...[list=1] [*]Can the government install such a law without violating the Constitution's takings clause. [*]Should the government install such a law. [/list] I believe the first issue has been addressed sufficiently well by the courts - I think the courts were right. Others can disagree but disagreement doesn't change anything unless others can show how the courts got it wrong. The second issue is, I believe, the only issue that truly matters at this point. The "it's my property and I should be able to do what I want" statement certainly sounds reasonable...it even sounds patriotic but when examined in detail it is, I believe, unconvincing. It's unconvincing because it really just states an opinion....it's unconvincing because it can (and in many cases was) used to justify any manner of abhorrent, disgusting and even dangerous practices and shows absolutely zero concern for anyone or anyone else s rights; including [u][i]their[/i][/u] property rights.

My experience tells me you will draw and fire without thinking about your equipment and you will fire where and how you have trained; chances are you will not have time to do anything else. My training was firing into center body mass without using sights. If you think you will have time to get a sight picture or make a head shot; train that way. If I were a “Shot placement guy” I would be dead.

I'm still waiting for a satellite to fall out of orbit and land on my neighbor's house. They moved in 5 years ago and it has been nothing but trouble since. Police have been involved twice.

[size=4][color=#001320][font=Arial]As a business owner I often choose not to offer our services to some people. That is what is great about living in a free country. We can still choose not to do business with someone. We usually are refusing to buy from someone but it is also refusing to sell to someone. Over the years I have learned a lesson. Bad business is worse than no business. We do not have to subject ourselves to people we do not want to associate with. At the same time no Obama voter has to shop with these guys. It’s still a free country go somewhere else. [/font][/color][/size]

[img]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/61983_420982761300680_254569568_n.png[/img]

I've never understood buying a car. I don't understand why I have to sign 50 documents for a damn car. I've paid cash for a few and just don't get it. If I pay you, why can't you give me the title, a bill of sale and handshake on the way out the door. Should take no more than 15 minutes TOPS.

[quote name='S&WForty' timestamp='1353092365' post='846718']That sure is a good perspective. It's almost like such a law being enacted sets a precedent. What else can the government tell a private person/company what they can/cannot do/allow on their property?[/quote] There is a clear distinction, both in law and in practice, between private property used for private purposes and property used for business purposes and that distinction has been recognized for many, many decades. I agree that the rights of the property owner should be protected but no one right exists in a vacuum; they interact with other...sometimes they conflict with one another and when that happens, a fair balance needs to be sought; a balance that does the most good and least harm. I would suggest that the larger issue that should impact whether "parking lot" legislation is or isn't passed into law is what constitutes the best outcome for society at large. We have a large amount of history/data to show that an armed citizenry is a benefit to society; as such, if we (the government) can promote citizens being armed with little or no infringement on the rights of property owners then it's appropriate to make that possible. Other than the cry of "private property rights" (a cry I believe is misguided), I've not read or heard even one argument that has shown me any measurable, negative impact on a business owner simply because an employee or a customer chooses to have a legally owned and transported firearm in their vehicle while it's parked in a parking lot that is open to the public, and not just "open to" but where the public is invited to be.

Settled for it since I couldn't find a Shield in 9mm. Went and shot it just now and for my first non 1911 gun I like it. Anyone else have one and can recommend a decent IWB holster? I think everyone knows what one looks like but here you go.

[quote name='QuietDan' timestamp='1353295558' post='847971'] ....I have opinions that I believe could convince, but I'm going to hold off until folks settle down a little bit. [/quote] You should have espoused them about a year and a half ago to forestall the last umpteen threads on the matter -- could have reached group consensus if not a complete state of satori. - OS

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1353292933' post='847938'] You can call it "private property" all you want but society has decided that how a property is used has a bearing on what can and should be regulated with regards to that property. You may not like it...you can ignore it all you wish...you can disagree with it all you wish but the reality is that society, through the government, treats property used for business purposes differently than property used for private purposes and has done so, as best I can tell for at least 130 years and perhaps longer. [/quote] Two of us saying almost exact same thing won't change their minds. It's worse than "2A will not be infringed!", or even "Citizen's arrest, citizen's arrest!" - OS

[quote name='strickj' timestamp='1353287980' post='847880']Private property is private property.[/quote] You can call it "private property" all you want but society has decided that how a property is used has a bearing on what can and should be regulated with regards to that property. You may not like it...you can ignore it all you wish...you can disagree with it all you wish but the reality is that society, through the government, treats property used for business purposes differently than property used for private purposes and has done so, as best I can tell for at least 130 years and perhaps longer.

[quote name='strickj' timestamp='1353287980' post='847880'] Private property is private property.[/quote] There's the basic fallacy you refuse to see. There are already [i]many[/i] more regulations on business properties with employees and business properties open to the public than on residential or unimproved rural properties. I won't even begin to iterate them again because you will continue to ignore that regulatory agencies and jurisprudence obviously do [i]not[/i] consider them the same, and keep parroting that mantra. You and JayC need to be sure to collaborate on a strongly worded amicus brief if the thing is finally passed, assuming it ever is indeed challenged in court. - OS

I've been away from this soap opera for a week or so. Did I miss anything? No? Didn't think so. Anyone convince anyone about anything? No? Didn't think so.

Dead dried up greens! LOL Dave S

[quote name='Il Duce' timestamp='1353280212' post='847817'] [img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/civicex2k1/IMG_4928.jpg[/img] Sent from my SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2 [/quote] Thats what its all about

Just a followup ... shot about a 100 out of the second box (same lot) Friday. Quite obvious variable powder loads, and 5 duds. The duds are really [u]duds[/u] too, tried all 5 3 times each, doesn't seem to be any primer at all in them. - OS

I doubt that he loses much business, if any. If I sold Twinkies... no, bad example. If I sold coal furnaces and coal... oops, 'nother bad example. Ok, ok. If I sold big screen HDTVs and beer, I would consider that a bad business move. But not a gun store. Honestly, I would not sell a gun or ammo to an Obama voter, either. They have clearly demonstrated a considerable lack of judgement.

As a FL fan it saddens me to see him be fired.

Center mass as they say. The torso does not move wildly and is the largest target. You are responsible for that bullet when it leaves the barrel. Setting the threat aside, do you want it to pass through or by the head and hit a bystander? The center of the body has the greatest chance to stop the bullet. Absolutely train the way you shoot, shoot the way you train and TRAIN OFTEN. I tend to shoot center and a touch low. a touch below the sternum. Reason being, when I follow up with two or three very rapid shots I tend climb and inch or two. Three shot in the torso;liver lung and heart....this guy will have to be on PCP to keep going. If I ever do have to use my weapon, I'm not going to shoot once and then check to see if he's okay. Shoot to stop the threat, that means he goes down.

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1353256486' post='847659'] I wonder how many airplanes will be built in SC? I'll bet it's none. Didn't Boeing scrap the SC plant? [/quote] They recently doubled their rate and are now building five Dreamliner 787’s a month.

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1353255088' post='847647'] The only legal risk you have is if you are not justified in shooting. [/quote] ... and the fact that you'll probably miss, so the bullet is going to hit something else with full force.

Other things you're going to need on short notice - a stuck case remover and replacement decapping pins.

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1353254850' post='847642'] I think we all must have one of those. My gay(term used loosely) nephew thinks communism is a good thing and doesn't understand the fascination with firearms, but gets behind you if confronted. Little coward will be at Thanksgiving dinner. I will be there, briefly. [/quote] Gets behind you? May wanna tighten up a notch or two on that belt

Heres a heart warming neighbor story from yesterday. Lawn company cuts her grass, blows a four foot pile of leaves from her yard into mine. (I have no trees.) Yes, I blow them back. She comes out and yells at me, " I paid to have those blow there!) Me> " What?!" I feel your pain.

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1353252132' post='847615'] Well as my wife reminds me, miserable people tend to have miserable lives. My neighbor is a awful human being, but he has to suffer through who he is everyday until he dies a lonely, pathetic death which no one will mourn. Just wish that day would get here sooner than later. [/quote] Karma is painfully slow, and not all that reliable either.

You need to have a machine gun shoot in your back yard. Based on previous threads, the asshattery is permanent. All that's left is superior firepower

[quote name='barewoolf' timestamp='1353250199' post='847588'] Are civil rights allowed to be violated on private property, as in the parking lots of the workplace? How about in restaurants? Is it permissible to discriminate against blacks in these places? Then why is it ok when its the 2nd Amendment that's being violated? [/quote] Because the interpreters of the United States Constitution, the Supreme Court of the United States, has ruled that while you have a right to own a gun, where and how you carry it will be controlled by the state you live in. In the state of Tennessee carrying a loaded gun is a crime. Approximately 5% of the state’s population has purchased the privilege to carry; but that is not a Constitutional Right. Last I checked being black was not a crime in any state and I fail to see how that keeps getting brought up in this discussion.

Currently we have 4 rescue cats and 3 rescue dogs. I wish I had more space!

*shrug* I support those folks right to vote for whom ever they choose to, I also support this fellow's right not to do business with those folks.

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1353248357' post='847562'] It may well be a stupid business move, but he said he is willing to accept the consequences if it is. But being a Patriot certainly isn’t childish.[/quote] I don't see how it makes him a patriot. Would I be more of a patriot if I just disowned all my friends and family that voted for Obama? It is silly and childish, and equates to a temper tantrum similar to this secession nonsense. It is this sorta immature behavior that makes us such a divided country in regard to politics.

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1353248138' post='847561'] The point is, to shut off all business to anyone who voted for a different candidate is a stupid business move and is pretty childish to boot. [/quote] It may well be a stupid business move, but he said he is willing to accept the consequences if it is. But being a Patriot certainly isn’t childish.

I would suggest a good brand name. Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, LG. stay away from the "bargin brand names" ask me how I know

[quote name='Steelharp' timestamp='1353243525' post='847525'] I've had two PLR's. It's surprising, the amount of recoil compared to a conventional AR. However, after gathering info here about the suffering of the ballistics to the .223 round by that short of a barrel... I opted to sell them. You might want to consider that. [/quote] Yup the shorter you go, the more velocity & energy you give up. However, even out of a really short 7" barrel you are still looking at .357 magnumish levels of energy, which is greatly diminished no doubt but it is still an extremely useable amount.

I shot a bow for years. But in a SHTF scenario bows are toys that take up room that could be better used for guns and ammo. However…. Everything is application driven. If you have an application where you can get close enough to a threat to deliver a fatal hit without him shooting you to death if you miss; it might be okay. [img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/TourGlide/Web%20Stuff/biggrin.gif[/img]

troll from New Hampshire......We dont need EBT cards and free condoms either

At the recent show here in Knoxville there was a guy selling some stuff called New View or Vue. Or something close to that. It was a pink liquid that you smear all over your glasses and then wipe away. This stuff is pretty amazing. No fogging at all and the best part is it also fills in small scratches. My glasses are clearer than that have been in a long time. I was getting ready to go get new glasses because fot eh small chips and scratches (I am hard on my glasses) but with this stuff I think I can get a lot more use out of them. Dolomite

I have tried all sorts of products over the years, some of the best stuff are these "Nice'n Clean" lense wipes, which I usually buy at the eyeglass place in Walmart.

[quote name='Mike.357' timestamp='1353208423' post='847421'] Good on your for walking out. The dealer must have a helluva business going if they can afford to let cash deals walk away. [/quote] Misconception here about cash deals being preferred car deal. As a F and I guy it went against my numbers on doing a cash deal. I made money and often more on the back end of a deal off the buy rate. Always make a dealer think you are financing the car until the very last minute. I would just about give away a car for a lose on the front end because I knew I could make it up on the back end. I once sold a Ford Contour for a 2500 loss but actually made 2500 on the rate/credit life/gap and extended warranty. I wouldn't have discounted the car if I thought the buyer was going to write me a check.

I love the build of these guns, and the action is super nice. I just wish they would have put some sights on this gun... I know it's a hunting rifle meant for a scope, but I like shooting with iron sights!!!

Great job making all the pro-2A people look like sore losers, morons. Oh wonderful business idea too btw.

[quote name='AmericanWorkMule' timestamp='1353204053' post='847388']In Tennessee, could she get into legal trouble for this? [url="http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/16/15216903-woman-pulls-gun-on-flasher-im-going-to-blow-your-brains-out?lite"]http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/16/15216903-woman-pulls-gun-on-flasher-im-going-to-blow-your-brains-out?lite[/url][/quote] No. Generally sex offenders are known to rape people. If some dude exposes himself to my wife and makes any motion towards her, she will shoot him. Good luck finding a DA and 12 people that would disagree with that course of action.

Sounds like a plan Ramjo... be thinking too if you'd like the barrel shortened any (if it's not already 16 inches).. By all means something that doesn't have to be done but just keep in mind the extra length a suppressor will add and if you want to try to compensate for that. No extra charge while it's already set up in the lathe to just whack it off but it's your personal preference on what ya want. The 10/22s look tacti-cool with the short barell/suppressor setup. Just PM me when you're ready

The fact that they think I don't need one tells me I definitely do.

[quote name='RichardR' timestamp='1353146006' post='847085'] Rusty, Maybe I am just being nieve but I doubt that there would be any reason for someone I was hosting to rob me, considering I am more than willing to provide as much assistance to them & their family as I possibly could. [/quote] You are being naive. In a true SHTF situation they are going to rob or kill you for your stuff. Heck, people rob and kill when it isn't a SHTF situation. And if you let a few people know you have food, shelter and supplies you are going to have 10x that actually show up. Kind of like that discreet highschool party. And when you have to turn away some people things are going to go south very quickly. Or those you tell could pass it on to bad guys to save their own skin and then the bad guys will rob or kill you for your stuff. I would not advertise or let anyone know what you have. You will have plenty of chances to help the needy that wonder by you place. Remember the key to survivng is to not become a target. Keep you and your supplies hidden. And as much as I hate to say it you need to suspend your compassion if you want to survive. Dolomite

Didn't think of that, but it could be the humidifier was well. I'd call the installer and have then come look at it. It shouldn't smell at all, especially if it's got an air scrubber. That's the whole point, to eliminate odors and particulates.