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I know I don’t need to explain myself and not really sure it matters to some of you why I did what I did but here goes. First off let me start by saying that we are a family oriented site and do our best to maintain that image. And sometimes in order to maintain that image some posts do need to be edited or deleted. It happens regularly and 99% of the time it goes unnoticed by the members here. As far as why I deleted the link it was not emotion driven, at least not when I deleted it. Yes, as the thread dragged on I did get a bit emotional about it just like many other members here. And just because I am a moderator here does not mean I have to or that I even need to turn off my emotions and become a moderating zombie of sorts. Anyone who has come to me with a problem knows I have a true concern for them and their problems. Without any emotion, as some of you have suggested I should be, I would not be able to do that. I truly am concerned for everyone on this board like any family. Remember that care, concern and compassion are emotions just like disgust is an emotion. For me the link was not a gun or 2[sup]nd[/sup] amendment issue even though it morphed into that. Anyone who knows me knows I am pro gun. Again, for me the link was not a gun rights issue but a domestic violence issue. When it was posted and I first saw it I had two options. Leave it or remove it. Trust me when I say I struggled with it for a bit. Then I realized there really isn’t a gray area when it comes to domestic violence or the abusers themselves. If I were to leave it up then by inference anyone who might come and visit this board might see me, as well as the board, as supporting domestic violence and the damage it does. Remember, people are not going to see the petition as a gun rights issue but as a domestic violence issue. They might also view the members here who didn’t speak out against it as supporting domestic violence in some way. And I, for one, do not want to be associated with or be accused of supporting anything related to domestic violence. Now on the other hand if I removed the link this is what would happen. It prevents anyone who might come and visit the site from ever questioning the stance the board has on domestic violence. And by deleting it that would also show it how we, as the TGO family, feel about domestic violence. So for me I felt that by leaving it up nothing good could come of it. Remember this is not a gun issue but a domestic violence issue. Domestic violence is a violent crime that has serious, long term emotional and sometimes physical effects on the victims. It affects their self esteem, self worth, confidence but most importantly it also affects those who are most likely to witness it, the children. Children mimic what they see and will grow up to do the same thing their parents have taught them. This only perpetuates the domestic violence problem. And I would hope we all agree that domestic violence is heinous and uncalled for under any circumstance. And we all should distance ourselves from anything that can be viewed as a pro domestic violence stance. Remember, a person with [u]ONE[/u] post came on here with an agenda. He was either trying to garner support for his own, individual situation that we have no clue about or he was just trolling to create turmoil amongst our TGO family. Either way it seems like a complete stranger has been successful on one or both counts. I do not hold grudges, I do not hate and I try to treat everyone here equally. Besides my memory is so bad that I wouldn’t be able to remember who I have a grudge against and who I don’t so I just don’t hold a grudge. Those that reported me I am not upset or out to get you. I welcome anyone who feels there is a problem with the board to hit the report button so we can address it, not just for you but for everyone. I just needed to get this out there for people to see my reasoning. Please do not turn this into the same discussion as the previous thread, that is not why I posted this. Dolomite

Just got it yesterday. 4.5 week old chocolate lab female. The mother starting rejecting the litter so the people tried to find homes asap. Vet checked it out and she is good to go. [IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/civicex2k1/IMG_20121116_102708.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Major Kong' timestamp='1353109673' post='846892'] I've been out of town for the last week. What'd I miss??? [/quote] There ain't no more twinkies, and Obama is still a commie

I will take Israel plus the points

No need to explain yourself brother. You were chosen for a reason. Hey people, remember its not a democracy here. Keep up the good work.

Isn't it a shame that Israel can't conscript American Jews to fight for them...you know...such as the ones who voted to keep Obama in power. I am not really afraid for Israel because I believe they can take care of themselves but I feel afraid and concerned for all who will suffer; especially since they wouldn't have to if the United States did the right thing and stood behind Israel (as opposed to doing everything to encourage Israel's enemies).

<insert obvious comment about unions here>

With a new Glock 19 Gen 4, electronic muffs, some ammo, Comp-tac holster and mag pouch. Took a lot of looking and deciding. In the end, the Glock fit my hand the best, the trigger is decent, the price was right, and it was available. Off to the range tomorrow to give it a wringing out.

[IMG]http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk59/bubbiesdad/sunbather.jpg[/IMG]

[quote name='Garufa' timestamp='1353096271' post='846760'] By December 21st, Jerusalem will be surrounded by Muslim armies at which point Israel will be forced to unleash their nukes. It all goes downhill from there. [/quote] Hypothetically speaking of course, The Kaaba in the Courtyard of the Grand Mosque of Mecca is a good first nuke shot. Hopefully a big one, an air burst, right in the middle of the Haj pilgrimmage, turn it into a big sea of green glass with a million or two crispy ants embedded in it. Go on Google Maps and look up the coordinates. It's the one spot on the Earth that they all bow down to during prayers. Destroying it would make the rest of the radical muslims in the world go absolutely berserk, which will make it easier to identify them and pick them off. Islam as an organized "religion" would cease to exist. Of course, the resulting confusion would make Armageddon look like a Sunday picnic and could accidentally trigger the Second Coming, and He wouldn't be pleased. Fun to think about, not so much fun to do.

not listening to anything right now, but whenever I see this thread It puts a smile on my face. Still miss you Shannon. RIP bud

[quote name='laktrash' timestamp='1353097400' post='846769'] Little debbie is alot cheaper [/quote] I always heard that about her.

yyyuuummm [img]http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17xa5ldvlps80jpg/original.jpg[/img]

Hostess has nothing to match the Oatmeal Creme Pie or Swiss Roll.

If they keep pushing Israel for a fight they are gonna get exactly what they want. And they are not gonna enjoy it when they do.

[quote name='S&WForty' timestamp='1353092365' post='846718']That sure is a good perspective. It's almost like such a law being enacted sets a precedent. What else can the government tell a private person/company what they can/cannot do/allow on their property?[/quote] There is a clear distinction, both in law and in practice, between private property used for private purposes and property used for business purposes and that distinction has been recognized for many, many decades. I agree that the rights of the property owner should be protected but no one right exists in a vacuum; they interact with other...sometimes they conflict with one another and when that happens, a fair balance needs to be sought; a balance that does the most good and least harm. I would suggest that the larger issue that should impact whether "parking lot" legislation is or isn't passed into law is what constitutes the best outcome for society at large. We have a large amount of history/data to show that an armed citizenry is a benefit to society; as such, if we (the government) can promote citizens being armed with little or no infringement on the rights of property owners then it's appropriate to make that possible. Other than the cry of "private property rights" (a cry I believe is misguided), I've not read or heard even one argument that has shown me any measurable, negative impact on a business owner simply because an employee or a customer chooses to have a legally owned and transported firearm in their vehicle while it's parked in a parking lot that is open to the public, and not just "open to" but where the public is invited to be.

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1353081363' post='846570'] I actually prefer the taste of wild game over the bland taste of farm raised. Anyone who has had wild turkey will confirm this. Dolomite [/quote] I love Wild Turkey, but after 4-5 shots, I really can't taste much difference in anything.

It's the wrong move... We should be pushing for removing government land and buildings from being posted under 1359. Not trying to overrule the rights of private citizens to control their own land.

[img]http://www.cavemancircus.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2012/november/funny_animal_pictures/funny_animal_pictures_63.jpg[/img]

[quote name='FIST' timestamp='1353076698' post='846492'] Unions at it again. While I'm sure there's 2 sides to this story the common theme in stories like this are the Unions. eta: viscero beat me to it. [/quote] The only part I know about is that Hostess stated they were closing down 3 offices or something like and initiating an 8% paycut across the board to everyone (Not sure if higher ups are involved) and then the union striked. Well you gotta respect the company though stating that you can either work or look for a new job. Personally, my butt wouldn't have striked in the first place. 8% paycut isn't too bad vs getting paid nothing.

Expect to see a lot more of this in the future. Liberals are looking for new sources of money to steal in order to support entitlements that make folks dependent on government. They have doubled the number of Food Stamp recipients, increased the number on welfare, and ObamaCare adds millions more to that dependency. Socialism only works until you run out of other people's money to steal. We are getting very close to that. An interesting observation is that registration inevitably leads to confiscation. First we had to 'register' our retirement accounts (401k, IRAs, etc). And now the socialists are talking about stealing from them. With all of that 'registered' money out there, it will be very difficult to hide it from confiscation. Remember that when anyone talks about firearm registration.

I have mixed feelings about this... Without big money in these things, there will not be the same level of research in it. But I also personally know what it's like to see $600,000.00 worth of medical bills including an $8000 titanium rod, or a $12,000 steel hinge, or $400 screws that look like a 35 cent wood screw you get at Home Depot. Everyone wants cheaper medical coverage, but I can assure you that when you're on the table, you don't care about costs, your only concern is that the technology exists to help you. Some places may be able to perform functions that have been discovered by the hospitals and research centers, but when those places start losing money, there is little motivation to continue investing resources in research. An argument can be made that some medical professionals don't do it for the money and while that is true, it is a very small number.

HRCC CQB 2012 A few weeks ago I attended Tactical Response's High Risk Civilian Contractor CQB course for raids and rescues held at the Memphis Police Academy shoot house in Millington, TN. Sunday started us out as usual with the meet and greet. It was great seeing everyone from past classes. It really makes a difference when you get to see who all is in your class and they're mostly guys you have already been through multiple classes with. The trust is already there, all you have to do is show up and get your learn on. We had 32 students in the class and were divided into three teams; Earth, Wind, and Fire. After teams were picked, we got into duty assignments and sharing contact info. I had the pleasure of being assistant team leader for our team. We broke for dinner and racked out ready to hit the ground running in the morning. We started Monday in the shoot house and listened to a quick lecture from Jay in the principles of CQB. Speed, Surprise, and Violence of Action. Basically, get in, dominate the room, shoot the guys that need to be shot, make sure it's clear then move on the next until you reach your objective. We started out with dry fire movements in two man teams to ensure we understood the concepts and moved on from there. Once we were done at the house we headed to the flat range to work on transitions, accuracy and shooting on the move with James and Aaron. Meltdown drills and dot drills were the core of the lesson. Finishing out the evolution were cadence drills followed by cadence drills on the move. After lunch, Sean went over basic patrolling. This was a nice review for me after taking Direct Action this spring. Patrol formations, hand signals, communication, crossing danger areas, and leaders recon were all covered. Tuesday started us out on the flat range with Aaron working on shooting on the move and target transitioning. After that Aaron had us pushing ourselves by increasing the speed. Back at the shoot house we worked more on movement inside the building, working from the stack, window breaching, and how to cover and clear stairwells. Wednesday brought us multiple team breaching and it inherent communication dilemmas. With one team hitting the front of the house and the other hitting the rear eventually we would meet at some point in the middle. The call "Eagle, Eagle, Eagle!" was designated for our friendly forces identifier. With the team leaders meeting in the middle, increased leadership roles were delegated to the ATL. I ended up getting our team started on our secondary searches, doing head counts, and gathering ACE reports while the TL was coordinating with the other team. Time after time I kept getting into positions I shouldn't have been in, standing watch over a door or window; tasks that would have been better suited to one of my teammates. My teammates politely informed me on several occasions to move my ass out of there and go do something useful like lead the team. Thursday, patrolling into our AO to conduct our raids. Working with both sniper overwatch and secondary overwatch positions. The teams rotated between assault, support and security roles. Their roles included outside security, breach point security, overwatch, with everyone else assaulting our target at three separate breach points. Things got intense quick and our team leaders were key in keeping things as calm and organized as possible. The biggest lesson I learned that day was that if I walked calmly and talked normally, it reflected in the people around me. Things normalized a little, people lessened the yelling and started communicating better. Friday began as all other HRCC Fridays begin. Joking around in the parking lot burning off nervous energy. This final X was a real treat because we were able to do three of them. Rotating team responsibilities so everyone got a chance to play. It was great until I realized that they had pulled the team leaders from us on our runs, all the responsibilities were on the ATL's. MR. Galakinokis was rescued three times and everything went well. This wasn't a shooting class. It's a tactics class that has shooting as an aspect. The biggest lessons I learned this class were learned on days I didn't fire the first round. By removing myself from the front line and having to keep track of my guys as we were jumping through windows and searching rooms, I had to have a big picture view of the operation. I couldn't lose myself in minutia. I learned to calm down, speak clearly and concisely, and keep my head up and eyes open. I have to thank James, Jay, Aaron, Tim, and Sean. They are fantastic instructors. Keep up the great work guys. To the Memphis PD. I am most gracious you allowed us to come play and learn at your facility. I look forward to any events in the future held there. To my Team; Calvin, Kayla, EJ, Ryan, Scott, Mat, David, Aaron, Rostik, and Ed. You guys were great and I'm glad I got a chance to train with you again. EJ and Ryan, thanks for putting us back on track and in our place when we deviated. Team Earf! Mike.

[quote name='laktrash' timestamp='1353085012' post='846609'] Better watch your shoes don't ask me how I know [/quote] I used to raise labs, Fantastic dogs. If your not familiar with them the first year can be mighty rough. Nothing is safe! You got a great looking pup sir. You can't beat a chocolate!

[quote name='Moped' timestamp='1353111422' post='846921'] Nope, not in Israel. Doesn't everyone have a firearm?[/quote] Instead of Obama-phones they get Netanyahu-carbines.

Probably be bought by a Chinese company and filled with propylene glycol cream and coated in lead frosting with a radioactive package to seal in the flavor.

Gordon, I agreed with you when the link was still there. Posted as much. To the folks that feel that the issue WAS related to our 2nd Amendment Rights, you mean to tell me that in the wake of everything we try to do by the rules, you advocate giving criminals guns? I am appalled. This is a privately owned and operated forum. It can be operated however the owner feels it needs to be operated. It is not a democracy. Your opinion doesn't matter. While that is harsh, it is the way it is. I am however glad that this site is operated in such a manner as to make our opinions valid, but at the end of the day, they aren't required.

I think you win thread title of the year with this one.

No need to worry about this.....David Patreaus was boinking his biographer! That's what you should focus on.

[quote name='laktrash' timestamp='1353097400' post='846769'] Little debbie is alot cheaper [/quote]Which may have something to do with why their products don't taste as good. I figure that if I'm going to eat unhealthy food I at least want it to taste as good as possible; if I have to pay a few cents more to get the taste I'm okay with that.

Frankly, I prefer realism in zombie movies.

Crossbreed Supertuck

If we are going to copy another state lets copy one that recognizes a right to bear arms. Its a short list of only four states; Kentucky nor Florida are on it.

Gotta love our pets ! Better watch your shoes don't ask me how I know

I recently received some deer meat and have had the same responses. Some people are open to try it and some won't touch it (and have never even tried it). I try to explain to people that if they will eat a chicken they should eat deer. Chickens are nasty little creatures that scavenge and eat their own kind( I do eat chicken though). I was a butcher for many years and know what quality is. Our creator put these animals here for us to eat and they will win any quality contest against anything store bought.

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1353081363' post='846570'] I actually prefer the taste of wild game over the bland taste of farm raised. Anyone who has had wild turkey will confirm this. Dolomite [/quote] Oh yes and when wild animals eat what the Lord intended for them to eat , they are better for you health wise. Like cows. God made cows to eat grass and not eat grain . When you eat beef that is grain fed , you dont get a lot of benefits. When you eat a cow that grazes and has eaten all grass , you get omega 3 fats and lots of vitamins and better versus grain fed. You can lose weight by eating grass fed beef belive it or not ! It is good for you and healthier . The same goes for deer and turkey and so forth .

I actually prefer the taste of wild game over the bland taste of farm raised. Anyone who has had wild turkey will confirm this. Dolomite

I refuse to support this until the state of Tennessee recognizes the right to bear arms. To say that the state won’t recognize your right but a business must is just a thug government. The government thinks they have the right to outlaw carrying loaded guns in your car for the safety of the public, but a business can’t come to the same conclusion for the safety of their employees? What a load of crap; this bill stinks and doesn’t deserve the support of gun owners, and won’t get the support of citizens.

Imagine that, being responsible for the services you receive as a direct consumer. Imagine that!

LOL let me rephrase then. I did not have enough 45's. So I traded the SD9 for a Sig P250 in 45. Did love the SD9 though

[quote name='sigbrown1297' timestamp='1352942247' post='845826'] i know nothing about deer hunting. All i know is that they taste great and i would like to get a couple deer to fill a freezer. My brother in law has a little bit of land where he said i could hunt. I know you have to have a license and looked at the TWRA website and saw the info about limits and all. I don't want to invest in a lot of money in equipment and camo, and stands. What the best way to go about this. Also i don't know how to field dress a deer so I'm a little worry about what I do after it shoot one. [/quote] Contrary to what Cabela's, Gander Mountain, etc would have you believe it doesn't have to be expensive at all. One you get licenses and hunter safety out of the way you don't NEED a ton of stuff. If I were starting from scratch and on a budget I would buy a Mosin Nagant and some decent hunting rounds for it if you don't already have a suitable gun. Besides that buy a good knife if you don't have one and a cushion to sit on. You won't need camo since you are wearing orange anyway, just wear something comfortable. A good rifle, a good knife, and some patience/ knowledge of local deer habits are all you will need to put one in the freezer. Best of luck. I think I could easily get into the woods for well under $200.

We have 8 dogs, all strays, My OL, God lover, cant say no, when we die I will be cleaning the pound She is running in Heaven. I grew up on a farm, we had cows and pigs(I hate pigs, cows OK) when the next door dogs start running the cows and the pigs we went to the owners and talked to them. 2 or 3 times till the dogs killed a calf, talking stoped and the rifle came out, 4 dogs in one day. All from the same family, after the first dog was put down we went to the owners and told them what we did, they were upset, they would not want to pay for the calf. The next 3 dogs put down were put in the ground by me on the farm, we did not go next door to tell the owners. All that said, killing a dog is a very hard thing to do, even when you HAVE to. This Man did not HAVE to!!!

Ok, so many of us here believe the Obammunist and his minions are low down evil and dangerous thugs who will stop at nothing to fulfill their evil designs on us and the United States. So, why would you put your name on a list that says you think he's an Evil Bastard and that he'd stop at nothing to destroy the U.S.? Are you going to use your real name and address? If you think he'd stop at nothing, he wouldn't stop himself and his minions from knocking on your door in the middle of the night, collecting you and your family barefoot in their nightshirts and hauling you off in the back of a five-ton truck to a barbed wire compound in the middle of North Dakota. It would probably be smarter to sign up at one of the ObamaLove websites, learn the Worshipful Songs and the Secret Handshakes, all the while keeping your powder dry in a vault in your back yard and waiting for The Signal.

I have to say, with absolute honesty, that if you shot my dog I'm not sure the police would get there in time to help you. For some reason this story just makes me seethe with anger. Dogs are probably the one living example of God's unconditional love for us. No matter how bad things may be going for you, a dog is the one animal on this earth who is likely to love you more than you love yourself. This bitter, hateful, evil old man is a ticking time bomb. Give him a few years and he'll be pulling a gun on someone's [b]CHILD[/b] who wanders into his yard. Piece of human s***t.

He needs to be charged with animal cruelty as well. Then they need to take his social security while he is in jail, which it should be anyways, as well as while he is on probation. How ironic would it be that he could only afford dog or cat food to eat. Then require him to do his community service at a local animal shelter cleaning up their crap. And finally he needs to be required to walk next door every single day and appologize to the children until they find another dog. I hate that this happens and I wish the old man could feel some of the parent's pain. I mean it is so heart wrenching as a parent to watch your child be miserable over something. What makes it worse is when you cannot do anything to fix it. The parent(s) are strong people for not kicking the old man's ass and they probably did that for their kids to see how to be responsible. The old man is a weak minded individual that probably thinks he is entitled to do stuff like this because he is old. Being old doesn't give you the right to something like this, nothing does. Dolomite

Possibly the start of something many will regret!

I believe one of the main problems is the Federal Government trying to control many programs and legislation that should be controlled on the state level.

[quote name='LagerHead' timestamp='1352930000' post='845708'] All the more reason to buy guns at your local gun shop. You may pay a little more but at least you don't have to deal with morons like this guy. [/quote] I dunno, I've dealt with some well qualified morons at more than one of my local gun stores, too. - OS

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352840624' post='844987'] I not choosing sides. The actions that have been mentioned would be just as stupid if Obama and his crew were the ones threatening them. [/quote] Then you [i]are[/i] saying that Republicans/Conservatives/TEA Partyists are the ones making such claims and threats as you perceive it. I would like to see where that is occurring. Au contraire my friend, but it was, and still is, liberals and blacks making serious and [url="http://twitchy.com/2012/11/02/as-election-day-nears-obama-supporters-step-up-riot-threats/"]well documented[/url] threats of riots, assassinations and other mayhem if Romney were to win and 0bama were to lose. They [url="http://www.theblaze.com/stories/multiple-twitter-users-threaten-to-assassinate-mitt-romney-shoot-him-dead/"]publicly posted[/url] these on Twitter and Facebook and other social media. I see NO SUCH THREATS from Republicans/Conservatives/TEA Partyists, nor have any riots taken place, nor any other mayhem. If you are basing your sole argument on symbolic petitions of secession, your blowing in the wind. The so-called victorious party is the violent and divisive one. Your argument holds no water. [b] Thousands Of Shocking Threats Of Violence By Obama Supporters On The Eve Of The Election[/b] http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/thousands-of-shocking-threats-of-violence-by-obama-supporters-on-the-eve-of-the-election (article was originally on MensNewsDaily.com but has now been scrubbed from the web)

*sigh* beautiful, absolutely beautiful, sort of reminds me of of my Colt Officer ACP, congrats man she sounds like a keeper, don't make the same mistake that I did and trade er off!