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I think Wasserman was in the military back when she was still a man.

Yes, but in all my years in LE I have yet to see one person be forced to plead guilty. The judge asks the defendent if he agrees to the plea and when the person says "yes" they become convicted of domestic abuse. If you don't want to plea then go to trial, that way you can explain your side of the story and let the jury make the decision. Heck, in a lot of cases they will let the abuser plea down to a lesser charge if it is their first time. A bruise is all it takes IMHO. If you are manhandling a women enough to leave a bruise then you are a POS and should loose [u]everything[/u]. Not just your gun rights. And most of those who[u] are [/u]abusers tned to be whiny asses and will cry anytime they think they are being abused. If you lay hands on a women during an argument in order to comtrol her or win the argument you are a POS. Dolomite

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1352920263' post='845602']Because I am not going to support anything that improves the life of an abuser. Hit the report button if you feel that strongly about it. Dolomite[/quote] Honestly I could care less if you supported midgets wearing drag, teaching sex ed at schools. And I don't see the point of reporting moderators to another moderator. I just feel that you involved emotions and you lost your objectivity in your decision to remove his link. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2

Whether or not we agree with the subject, without him violating a specific rule, deleting the post on a board the encourages personal freedom and speaking for what you believe in is very disturbing to me. While I don't believe in the hurting or touching a woman in any violent or non consensual manner, I saw a lot of consensual sex get turned into rape cases if they got caught in the barracks when I was in. I have seen all to often how quickly a scorned woman can ruin a mans life and career when he did nothing wrong.

Let's start off with this. I do not care about this petition, when it was first posted I looked at it and then decided not to sign it. Domestic violence was a major part of my childhood and do not condone it. If you don't agree with something, don't sign the petition. Great, speak your mind about it and move on. But where does it say if someone doesn't agree with something then the link should be deleted? I read through the code of conduct and I may have missed what part of the code this violated, but I didn't see a reason why this should have been deleted. Your house your rules, I get that. But as much as this forum preaches about maintaining our various freedoms, I really didn't expect this.

[quote name='Commando68' timestamp='1352911040' post='845493'] If Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, George Washington and the gang had that attitude we would be subjects to the British Monarchy. Through creeping socialism and the growth of the nanny state we have created a nation of pathetic "american idol" worshipping sheepish slaves to the fedgov. Rugged Independent Americans that can think for themselves and have a job have to pay for it. We are no longer the land of the free and home of the brave. That is a joke. Secession is the answer. Libertarian principles of limited govt and personal freedom would make the new Republics work. [/quote] You are no patriot. You are going to give up on the country when they need us most. You will not be able to do s single thing to effect change if you are no longer a citizen of the US. What did you do, other than just vote, to forward your candidate and his way of thinking? To me those who want to secede have denounced their US citizenship and should have all the perks of being a citizen removed. After all if you no longer want to be a part of this country or the political process you should not benefit from it either. Imagine how many would be crying right now if they were told they are no longer a US citizen and not allowed to vote? Or told they would not be eligible to receive the federal income tax return or their retirement. Or they were cut off from the unemployment benefits? Those wanting to remove themselves from the US go right ahead. There are plenty of other countries that will gladly take an American patriot. Dolomite

One more thing if the victim posts the bond for the subject then all charges are to be dropped. Dolomite

I'm so dumbfounded by this, I can't even express it. It's like someone is sitting back and thinking, "How can we flip the biggest bird possible to our men and women in uniform, and by proxy the American public?" "What's Jane Fonda doing? Oh. She's at that wine tasing with Hillary? How about the former junior Senator from Massachuessets who by the way served in Vietnam?"

[quote name='gregintenn' timestamp='1352940378' post='845806'] I could not agree more. You can't get most lazy fat Americans to get out of their car and walk into McDonald's to get a Big Mac; they'd rather grab it from the car window. If there was a revolution; who'd fight it? [/quote] I hate getting out of my car to get a burger too. Thank god for Sonic I guess. I'm very clear on the criteria that will cause me to get my Wolverines on. 1. Suspension of elections due to power grab or coup of some kind. 2. Any viable attempt to overthrow our government that has been elected by the American people. We are Americans. We get to have revolution at he polls. If my side loses I just wait until the next election cycle. Any attempt to change that system by force will cause me and the people like me to smack down those that would see the end to that. We would win.

[quote name='gregintenn' timestamp='1352938738' post='845774'] Did you see a couple of years back when the news reported that his average electricity bill at his one home in Brentwood was several thousand a month? Hypocrite? [/quote] Forget that, one trip in his private jet creates more pollution than 1,000 of the Prius' he tells everyone to buy, in their entire usable life

There are still Army barracks out there that have John Kerry urinal targets in the pissers. I guess they'll have to change those out.

I wonder.... What if we do have secession...What if the Federal government collapses under the weight of its own idiocy...What if we do have a second American Revolutionary War...What then? The real problem with our country is not really in Washington D.C.; it's in the hearts of the people...you can have revolution after revolution but when the last shot is fired you still have the people and the people, not the "politicians" and not the "unions" and not the "lobbyists"; its' the PEOPLE who are the problem. The first American Revolution worked NOT just because we defeated the British; it worked because we had strong, independent minded people who were capable and WILLING to take care of themselves and men of exceptional principles and morals who were willing to be servant-leaders.

Our Constitution will be shredded when the dear leader appoints one or two more supreme court justices. This system does NOT WORK. When we hit 20 trillion in debt and barry's cloward/piven strategy(bring down the economy by overwhelming with entitlements) pays off none of this will matter. The people that voted for the ivy league communist are either: socialists, black, hispanic, feminists, labor union thugs or what I call the "american idol mentality" lobotomized sheep. So yes, I am turing my back on the obamanation. We are the laughing stock of the world reelecting someone that despises the very country he was elected to lead.

Because I am not going to support anything that improves the life of an abuser. Hit the report button if you feel that strongly about it. Dolomite

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352912440' post='845516'] Voting machine Fraud? Unlikely. Several of the voting machine companies, like the ones in Ohio, were supposedly big GOP donators. Unless it is all a conspiracy, give the GOP donations, so we can lull them into not watching us, so we can then swap votes to Dems... Nice post of a conspiracy theory.[/quote] If someone does something to my computer to cause a problem, is it the computer manufacturer's fault or the fault of the person who did the act? If a voting machine is hacked/tampered with in some way, does it matter who the manufacturer of the machine was? There IS voter fraud, I think a lot of it and no one, especially the Democratic power structures and their ilk (the ACLU, etc) want to do anything about it. That means, unfortunately, that the ONLY way around it is for the election to not be so close that the fraud can push the election in the direction it wants.

[quote name='Symbolic' timestamp='1352909218' post='845471'] He's fighting for what he believes is right. Isn't that what we've been taught to do? It's understandable that it gets annoying when people don't shut up about things. A carbon tax for big industries is probably a good thing in the end. [/quote]BS...he's fighting for his investments.

For those of you who think it’s a good idea to overthrow the government, are you going to do away with voting in your new government? As much as it sickens me this man was elected by a popular vote of the people. Quit whining and feeling sorry for yourself and get involved in getting a candidate ready for the next election that can win. It’s a better plan than the one you are contemplating.

[quote name='Glenn' timestamp='1352858814' post='845163'] Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers . [/quote] Good one, but you forgot to add that a Ineptocracy generally occurs after a once great country has been lead into a bogus war, burned thru a surplus and starts snooping on it's citizens.

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352830299' post='844880'] Obamas admistration is bad. Worth civil unrest? No! [/quote] Not sure where you're coming from, I can only infer which group you are attempting to speak to, but... if Romney had won there would have already been riots in the streets, looting, violence perpetrated on caucasians and more. Already. It would be past tense or still be ongoing. Since 0bama "won", things are relatively calm and peaceful. That's because the group that "lost" is the more mature, reasonable, cautious group, the group that acts with honor and abides by the law, regardless of the circumstances. So I'm not sure which group you are saying that are "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Wanting to destroy OUR country because you didn't get your way in a election is STUPID!" I don't hear anyone talking about that. The side that "won" will do a plenty good job of destroying the country as it is.[/font][/color]

This is VERY good news. This is the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee, Chaired by Congressman Mike Rogers, Republican, from the Eighth District of Michigan. This is where the Truth will come out on Benghazi. It is a Classified Brief, therefore it's Closed to the public and the media. You can be sure that Congressman Rogers will make some sort of public statement shortly after the meeting adjourns. For what it's worth, Michele Bachmann, Republican, Sixth District of Minnesota, is also a member of the Committee. Sorry I don't have a link to this press release, it should be posted soon here: [url="http://intelligence.house.gov/"]http://intelligence.house.gov/[/url] ****************************************************************************************************************** [center][b]General David Petraeus to Testify Before [/b][/center] [center][b]House Intelligence Committee on Benghazi [/b][/center] WASHINGTON, D.C. – General David Petraeus will testify before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on Benghzai on Friday, November 16, 2012, at 7:30am. The hearing will be closed to the public. [b]What: House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence CLOSED Hearing[/b] [b]Topic: Benghazi[/b] [b]When: Friday, November 16, 2011[/b] [indent=1][b]7:30am[/b][/indent] [b]Where: HVC-304 (the hearing is CLOSED to the public[/b][b] and the media)[/b] The witness:[list] [*]General David Petraeus [/list]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEg1VNfX3o&feature=share

Seen several deer this morning and settled for this fat spike buck. He was walking straight toward me at about 75 yards and I put one in his chest with Muzzleloader. He's going to be good eating! [img]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f397/dsayre/Deer048-1-1.jpg[/img] Dave S

[quote name='w0lfattack' timestamp='1352940334' post='845805'] Moved here from Hawaii. Havent had deer meat yet. Ive heard it tastes "gamey" and that jerky is the best. Thinkin about takin up huntin myself. Sent from my HTC Inspire using Tapatalk 2 [/quote] If you cook it right it isn't "gamey". I grew up on it and I absolutely love it. I love soaking mine in buttermilk for a little while then toss it in flour, salt, pepper then off to the fry daddy until golden brown. My Paw made it this way and would cook it for breakfast. I sure do miss his cookin. I cook it other ways but hard to beat it fried like that in my opinion.

Let's hope the truth is revealed and changes are made to protect Americans in the future.

OK guys ease up already...sheez.....I left the flinlocks at home because I wanted a challenge and give the deer a sport'n chance.... That's my story and I'm gonna stick with it! Dave S

[quote name='graycrait' timestamp='1352936070' post='845751'] [img]http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab181/graycrait/GlockPredatorRedux2.jpg[/img] [img]http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab181/graycrait/CrewServedGlock.jpg[/img] [/quote] I think you fixed the Glock Butt problem

[quote name='Glenn' timestamp='1352892599' post='845361'] While Obama seems to be the master of bad policy, he certainly didn't invent it. [/quote] Nope. Just perfected it.

[quote name='OhShoot' timestamp='1352926572' post='845679'] Most of the world loves Obama. Only in the US are his favorable ratings anywhere near as low as 50%. - OS[/quote] They loved his Apology Tour. The countries we've thrown countless dollars at don't like us, and the other countries are envious of us - until Obama's goal of cutting us down to size is accomplished.

Who's going to listen to your argument and do something with this petition? Even if by some act of God you advance past the 11 votes you've got as of now and make it to the 25,000 signatures required to advance it to a mailbox no one actually reads, who do you expect to take up your banner? Find me one politician in 2012 who's going to go on the record and say, "I'd like to sponsor a bill restoring gun rights to people convicted of domestic violence." Their opponents wouldn't even need to make commercials about their record, they'd just play the tape of their comments. I agree that there are several problems with Lautenberg. Whether you consider it a 2nd Amendment issue, a 10th Amendment issue, or simply the fact that in many cases it's been applied ex post facto - there are a lot of Constitutional problems with it. It deserves to have it's day in court, and in fact the 7th Circuit heard a case on it recently and reversed a conviction. If you want to be involved in overturning this law, there are paths to do that. Get involved. This petition, however may as well be spitting in the wind. I'm closing this thread because of the above reasons. To all of you who are reporting this thread on both sides of the issue, I'll just say that we give our moderators a fair bit of leeway in making decisions abot what's appropriate and what's not. That's part of the reason they're here.

I swear, I wish a lot of you would really lighten up on the matter. No, I am talking about those who have petitioned for secession. I do not wish for secession, and I am willing to bet that the vast majority of those who are espousing it do not want it either. Why are they asking for it if they don't really mean it? It is a cry for help, nothing more. Honestly, I think it is a plea to the state legislatures to do something to stop the nonsense coming from Washington. A lot of Americans are seeing dramatic changes in their country for the worse, and they feel helpless to do anything about it. For example, their vote is becoming meaningless. In 2010, with the help of the Tea Party, Republicans regained control of the house to put a stop to the Obama and socialist Democrats agenda. Did it work? No. There were numerous occasions where the Republicans could have stopped a lot of this crap, which they were elected to do, via the power of the purse and they didn't do a damn thing. You can also look at recent comments from Speaker Boehner. It was total capitulation. I could go on and on with page after page of examples. Sheesh, I don't even want to go into all the crap and malfeasance that happened during this election cycle. Instead of secession, what a lot of people should be asking for is that their state legislatures start using nullification. We have seen a few cases of this in the past. California's pot shops would be a great example. California basically told the federal government to get bent in regards to California's leniency on pot and their pot shops. I can't recall an incident where you had a band of federal agents rounding up and arresting all of those people who were in clear violation of federal law. I could be wrong, but I believe it is incendiary rhetoric from both sides of any issue that typically make matters worse.

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1352911121' post='845496'] Isn't that the point of much of this horse s**t anyway? Isn't it so "unfair" for the U.S. to have so much while much of the rest of the world has so little (even though they have so little because of their own actions)??? [/quote] Exactly. Just wait until the Chinese start sharing their pollution. [quote name='UncleJak' timestamp='1352911323' post='845499'] I invented pants. But seriously, even "green" technology is based on the use of fossil fuels. Take, for example, an electric car. Where does the electricity come from? In many areas it comes from plants that burn fossil fuels. "Green" technology is not "green", unless green represents money. [/quote] FTW! Saving the world will never be popular until it's profitable. Such is the world we live in.

Suggested Reading: "Molon Labe" by Boston Tea Party. I think this attitude of going along with the agenda or your twinky supply will dwindle is wimpy. We possess the teeth of liberty. The bottom feeding, statist slime from the swamp in washington want to take away those teeth. How would the putrid, socialist leeches from the white house enforce this doomsday scenario on a new Republic of 4-5 states? It cannot happen. Leviathan would get bitten in one of it's many tentacles.

I laugh so I won't cry.

If you're really concerned with protecting your hearing, you'll need to run some tests, or at the very least look at the manufacturer's numbers. Keep in mind anything about 120dBSPL can (generally will) cause instantaneous damage to your hearing - this doesn't mean immediate noticeable loss of hearing, but hearing loss is cumulative, so at the very LEAST I recommend keeping the exposure to instantaneous sounds to <100dBSPL. I don't think I've ever seen a suppressor capable of more than about 30-35dB NR, which means you would realistically need ~20dB of extra protection with a typical firearm (most of which generate somewhere in the neighborhood of 150dBSPL). For example, when I'm shooting (I don't have any suppressors), I wear 33dB NR plugs with some 25dB over-the-ear muffs. This combination yields enough protection that I can shoot everything I own for hours with no damage. I'd LOVE to shoot with nothing on my head, but it's just not practical for someone who wishes to protect their hearing. May not seem like a big deal now, but in 20 years when you have tinnitus and struggle to keep up with conversations, you'll wish you were aggressive in protecting your ears...

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352859359' post='845168'] Good one, but you forgot to add that a Ineptocracy generally occurs after a once great country has been lead into a bogus war, burned thru a surplus and starts snooping on it's citizens. [/quote] While Obama seems to be the master of bad policy, he certainly didn't invent it.

Instead of a bunch of states seceeding, can we just put out DC, CA and a couple of other liberal states? Seems easier since we like the Constitution and all.

You may be able to get away with medium rings. I know several people who use medium rings with a 50mm scope. It all depends on the barrel profile, and the type of rings. I would give the mediums a try first, then move up to high if you need to.

For what you'll pay for the Bushnell vs the value, save a bit more and get a Vortex Strike Fire or SPARC. They come with the mounts, 2x doubler and a life time warranty.

I am all for those who have paid their dues to regain their gun right providing the crime was not violent in nature. Domestic violence is violent by nature. So there is no way anyone who has plead guilty to or been convicted of domestic violence should have a gun in their possession. Also, any man who is violent towards a women is a slimy POS and should face far worse penalties than just loosing their gun rights. They are an animal and should be treated as such. They should have to pay the women for what will become a lifetime of hurt the women will have to endure after a violent attack. I can't wrap my mind around why you are posting this. Dolomite

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1352841185' post='844996'] With all the regulations being spit out by the administration, we may not have many choices when we run out of "other peoples' money". I don't want to see civil unrest any more than any of you, but the time will come if we don't fix our problem with a solid vote of rejection of what we're getting. I would love to see that vote come around, soon. And I don't care if it isn't from the Republican Party, just solid. [/quote] I can agree with this. Party should never be important in my opinion.

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352840624' post='844987'] I not choosing sides. The actions that have been mentioned would be just as stupid if Obama and his crew were the ones threatening them. [/quote] Then you [i]are[/i] saying that Republicans/Conservatives/TEA Partyists are the ones making such claims and threats as you perceive it. I would like to see where that is occurring. Au contraire my friend, but it was, and still is, liberals and blacks making serious and [url="http://twitchy.com/2012/11/02/as-election-day-nears-obama-supporters-step-up-riot-threats/"]well documented[/url] threats of riots, assassinations and other mayhem if Romney were to win and 0bama were to lose. They [url="http://www.theblaze.com/stories/multiple-twitter-users-threaten-to-assassinate-mitt-romney-shoot-him-dead/"]publicly posted[/url] these on Twitter and Facebook and other social media. I see NO SUCH THREATS from Republicans/Conservatives/TEA Partyists, nor have any riots taken place, nor any other mayhem. If you are basing your sole argument on symbolic petitions of secession, your blowing in the wind. The so-called victorious party is the violent and divisive one. Your argument holds no water. [b] Thousands Of Shocking Threats Of Violence By Obama Supporters On The Eve Of The Election[/b] http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/thousands-of-shocking-threats-of-violence-by-obama-supporters-on-the-eve-of-the-election (article was originally on MensNewsDaily.com but has now been scrubbed from the web)

Fisher House is where I suggest people donate their money.

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1352838244' post='844957'] Though we seem to be on the opposite side of the larger issue, I agree with this statement. They are ideas that aren't just casually floated, but who says there is anything casual about this discussion of these topics? The constitution that you, me and many others here swore that oath to defend isn't just about our current administration, or any administration over our history. It is about the ideas of freedom and personal liberty. It was written to protect those ideals and for the people to be able to retain them. The US government lost it's way before our grandparents were born. At this point I truly believe the government to be an enemy of the people of this nation and the constitution we swore an oath to defend. The only way to save the latter, is to destroy to former as reformation is impossible at this point. I could be completely wrong. Maybe in a few years the people and the states will rise up and peacefully reclaim what was stolen from them by the socialist central planners on both sides of the aisle in DC. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it. [/quote] Well put. I agree that the government lost it's way long ago. I am not a fan of our government in it's current form, but I still hold out hope that it can be changed in a peaceful manner. I'm hoping that people are just venting and in a few months we can get to work choosing candidates that will do the will of the people. I said in another thread that I admire how the Tea Party struck fear in politicians. I'm hoping that everyone will take that template and use it as a means of affecting the change that they want.

heh. That occured to me. I wondered how they would validate the critter came from the reservation. "Rigor Mortis?? No man, That there yote had arthritis."

[img]http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3200/90c91/products/2018/images/4191/LIBERALISM_SHIRT_FRONT__59757.1344516977.1280.1280.jpg[/img]

The hammer type is good for a few mistakes, but if you ever want to pull a bunch (like 500), get a collet type puller. I pulled over 500 in just a few hours one time.

I was also raised in Illinois only I’m not ashamed of it. Comparing all of Illinois to Chicago is like comparing all of Tennessee to Memphis. I work to help educate the people of Illinois when I am there and they are close to getting another shot at carry permits. Only I take a little different approach than you. As I tell them, when you are talking with a state legislator the minute the words “My 2nd Amendment rights” cross your lips; you don’t have any credibility. The 2nd amendment fight has been fought and for the time being it has been settled by the SCOTUS. You can argue the rulings all you want; but they are the law of the land. So, do you want to argue about rights that you don’t have, or do you want carry privileges? I have been arrested and jailed for no crime other than having a loaded gun in my car; so I am absolutely sure that I don’t have a 2nd amendment right to bear arms. So should I just give up? Of course not. Illinois doesn’t recognize the 2nd amendment as an individual right, and neither does the state of Tennessee. But being able to carry a gun dosen’t require that they do. Being Democrat or Republican has little to do with what a person believes about gun rights/privileges. Every state has its problems. I am trying to help my friends and family be able to carry guns in Illinois. I would also like to ask my friends on this forum to stop with the bitter attacks on the citizens of the state of Illinois. They make you look terrible and hate filled. They are fighting the same fight the citizens of many states fought in order to be able to carry. Please support our brothers and sisters in arms in Illinois. I can assure you that it is a fight between the good people downstate and the thugs in Chicago that don’t want to get shot, or have their juvenile delinquent kids they raised, killed by armed citizens that refuse to be victims. I love the state of Illinois and I hope to return there when I retire; it is home. I have been in Tennessee for 14 years and have a few more to go. I am a law abiding citizen and try to help my community in any way I can. I served my country, have two honorable discharges, served my community as a Police Officer and am proud to call myself an American and a Patriot. I would never turn my back on an American in need no matter what state they live in.

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1352561574' post='843070']The way the GOP is talking, they're adopting a strategy to get immigration reform to get the hispanic vote.[/quote] Somebody, I don't remember who, noted, that most [i][b]legal[/b][/i] Hispanic voters, you know, the ones who actually followed the rules to get here and/or have been here for generations, tend to be conservative in their politics and that, for example, in states with large legal Hispanic populations, Republicans do well...meaning that it's the criminals (otherwise known as illegal aliens) who can't legally vote but do anyway, that are the primary voting block for Democrats. The conclusion is then, that the Republican party wants to go after the votes of illegals who can't legally vote in the first place. I'm I the only one whose head it about to explode?

Exactly. I just found the tone of a few posts on this thread to be a little over-the-top with the whole "you're an irresponsible person if you even remotely think about stopping for a beer or two while you have a CCW with you, and if you can't control yourself any better than that, you're probably a borderline alcoholic" stance that they took. Like I said, I get it. Don't drink and play with guns. I agree with that, but if I grab a beer with dinner, that hardly makes me irresponsible or dangerous. I used to arrest drunks for a living, so I know the difference.

What's happening.. I'm Chris. I loves me some Springfield XD's.. just picked up my second XD, a Bi-tone XD-9 4" yesterday. I can't wait to shoot it!