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I would like it to be known that many years ago I swore an oath to protect this country against ALL enemies foreign and domestic. There are millions more like me. Wanting to destroy OUR country because you didn't get your way in a election is STUPID! Don't bite off more than you can chew!

[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1352747674' post='844373'] My point is simply that it would send a message if 26x25000 (650000) people showed their dissatisfaction. [/quote] Last Tuesday 59 MILLION people got off their azz and went to a polling place to show their dissatisfaction. They showed ID and signed their real names with their real addresses. It made no difference. What makes you think 650K people doing nothing more than clicking on a web link would send any kind of a message or that anyone would care? There isn’t going to be any secession by any state. Our government is not going to be overthrown by any radical forces because it is protected by Patriots. The only way you are going to change our government is at the polling place. Many of the middle class is too busy or too indifferent to vote. The poor and those living off the government are voting and they are voting for bigger monthly checks and free healthcare. Internet petitions are a joke.

Screw it, I'm posting A lot of people that took that same oath believe the current regime to be a domestic threat. Just letting you know that there's people, including vets, that would push that issue both ways. I'm recently discharged, and I can tell you a lot of newer vets, as well as active duty, won't obey unlawful orders from a corrupt Socialist Regime. [quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1352830771' post='844883'] Yep and they won't be dead martyrs or Patriots; they will just be dead terrorists. I took the oath, and if you want to change my country you will do it at the polling place because if you try it by force you will lose. [/quote] Funny thing is they called Washington and all the other founding fathers terrorist, traitors and worse. Remember history is written by the victor of the battle.

Republicans and conservatives tend to be law abiding while liberals do not have a problem cheating. We have seen it time and time again. Yes both sides cheat but the ratio is not 1 to 1. Dolomite

This topic gets my dander up so give me a minute to run to the basement and collect my soap box podium... The Federal government has no business in our collective hive schools, much less dictating what is to be taught, how to teach it, standardize it and fund it. In far too many cases, our schools have become nothing more than day care centers, distractions and obstacles to children who want to learn and are held back. If you know your history, you're aware children were much better educated in the three "R's" prior to the Fed's involvement. Does our "Bill of Rights" include a right to an education, or a free Bachelor's degree paid for by tax payers for convicted prison felons? How's this mess all working out? Too much class room time is wasted on health education (sex education), gay life style and diseases, etc., that's the parents responsibility. If you're a parent, take a look at your child's books and study material selected and approved for them by a national education agency. They're being indoctrinated and brain washed into liberalism, not free thinking. Our Colleges and Universities are even worse and they're paying big bucks to get brain dead? First and foremost, it's the parents responsibility to teach their children "everything". Right from wrong, good from evil, math, reading, history, the birds and bee's, ethics, political science, health, physical fitness, etc. It's no one else's responsibility, period. Many parents don't have the knowledge, skills and abilities to provide a quality education in all aspects of learning for their children, so... The COMMUNITY gets together and determines how to best share knowledge / resources and transfer it to their children in the form of doing it themselves, as in hiring a qualified dedicated teacher(s). And supporting those services provided from the community in which they live. Given the choice, how many communities would support and fund alternative schools for disruptive children with learning and/or behavior issues? I owe my children a roof over their head, cloths on their backs, food everyday, and a honest and accurate education on what I can afford, no one else's children. O.K., just returned my soap box to the basement guys

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352844849' post='845043'] Seems to me that most of the people against this are the first ones to say they love freedom, but look down upon, and critcize those actually making an attempt to get the focus of the government back where it needs to be. The interests of the poeple. Its not about being a sore loser in the elections like some people claim. If thats the case, then why isnt the petition for an election re-count skyrocketing with signers? Its about being dragged along into a sea of debt, having liberties stripped and destroying our rights that so many have fought and died for, again and again. For those of you who think voting will make it better, tell that to the several million voters who's vote didnt count once Obama had already won with several states left to get counted. It happens every election time and time again. The 2 party system is a joke at best, and niether ever give a damn about you or me, and they never will. Is it that hard to see that our current system is way out of control? [/quote] Yah, none of us who think this pointless / useless petition is a silly exercise are for any sort of reform, we're all just Obama-loving tax and spend communists. </sarcasm> Maybe some people see this for what it is - a waste of energy. Nothing, zero, nada is going to come from this and the timing of this - directly after the election with no legislation happening which would cause the uproar - makes it look like a bunch of butt-hurt repubs who can't get over the fact they lost. Believe it or not, there are actually effective ways of communicating with government officials beyond preposterous requests that will yield something other than an eye roll.

As much as I admire the Wounded Warrior Project, I find this disturbing. Additionally, as a now retired warrior, I really dislike the mindset that we're all wounded in some fashion or other, and therefore victims. That mindset only makes it more difficult for Veterans to re-integrate in civil society, and can tend to create an attitude boundary that makes it hard for Veterans to become employed. Overcoming the difficulties of war does not create a lesser person, it creates a greater, a larger, a more capable person. Great enough and large enough and capable enough to frighten some of the weaker men who have advantaged themselves in the Veterans' absence. Re-read the Odyssey. The story is as fresh as today.

I am torn on this issue. I am one of a few people who truely believe that we are all equal. Equality is based on equal opportunity. What one does with said opportunity is what makes the difference. Race has no dog in this fight...

I didn't vote for the bastard. For all who did - you own this s___! I don't have any representation in Washington or Nashville. I'm beginning to wonder if voting can change anything -- it's starting to look like a rigged game to me. You choose door "A" or door "B", but they both go to the same room.

I wouldn't think you would have an eye relief problem, but in case you do, Weaver makes offset mounts to accomoday short scopes, incorrect eye relief, etc. As for the torque, just turn the screws good and tight without trying to twist the heads off. I've mounted close to 100 scopes, and never used a torque driver, and never had any problems. Chill out...you are way overthinking this. Let us know how the Ruger shoots. Oh yeah, you'll probably need high rings for that monster scope.

If I was a Romney voter in one of those precincts, I guarantee I would be on the news because of all the noise I'd be making. There HAS to be some Romney votes in there. This reeks of criminal voter fraud. Where is the outcry ? If our elections can be openly stolen without reprimand then our freedom is already gone.

Yes, but in all my years in LE I have yet to see one person be forced to plead guilty. The judge asks the defendent if he agrees to the plea and when the person says "yes" they become convicted of domestic abuse. If you don't want to plea then go to trial, that way you can explain your side of the story and let the jury make the decision. Heck, in a lot of cases they will let the abuser plea down to a lesser charge if it is their first time. A bruise is all it takes IMHO. If you are manhandling a women enough to leave a bruise then you are a POS and should loose [u]everything[/u]. Not just your gun rights. And most of those who[u] are [/u]abusers tned to be whiny asses and will cry anytime they think they are being abused. If you lay hands on a women during an argument in order to comtrol her or win the argument you are a POS. Dolomite

I like my toe shoes.

Where were all you guys who are so pissed about losing your rights when the Patriot Act was enacted (or the three further authorizations)? I'm no Obama-apologist, but it strikes me as odd that none of this 'liberty or death' talk was heard when Bush was in office.

Liberals believe that the end justifies the means. They have proven this time and time again. So why would we think they would not try to keep Obama in office through nefarious methods?

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352829006' post='844866'] I would like it to be known that many years ago I swore an oath to protect this country against ALL enemies foreign and domestic. There are millions more like me. Wanting to destroy OUR country because you didn't get your way in a election is STUPID! Don't bite off more than you can chew! [/quote] Yep and they won't be dead martyrs or Patriots; they will just be dead terrorists. I took the oath, and if you want to change my country you will do it at the polling place because if you try it by force you will lose.

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1352823477' post='844834'] Not quite true. If you don't parse out the percentages of recipients in relation to percentage of population and only look at the raw numbers, there are more whites on welfare. In fact the single largest user of TANF is the single white mother. Believe it or not, there are still more of us crackers in this country than anyone else.[/quote] Yes, but the perception is different. I was just reading a story about widespread attacks against middle eastern immigrants in Greece as retaliation for their bankrupt ass gov. The immigrants aren't the ones sucking the Greek tit dry; it's the entitled Greeks that have had their hands out all along. Certainly the perception is the same here in regard to minorities. I'm from the land of trailer parks and Florida. I know just how worthless and teet sucking white people can be.

[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1352821702' post='844826'] I think there will also be a heavy racial element to it as well. Lets face it there are a lot more minorities on the dole than whites. Besides the opposition to Obama will be seen by the blacks as racist.[/quote] Not quite true. If you don't parse out the percentages of recipients in relation to percentage of population and only look at the raw numbers, there are more whites on welfare. In fact the single largest user of TANF is the single white mother. Believe it or not, there are still more of us crackers in this country than anyone else.

I guess I missed the notice that you lose Fourth amendment protections when you enter a National Park. Two simple phrases are all you need to say: 1) I do not consent to a search. 2) Have a nice day, officer.

As much as I hate what the country is becoming we are far from being a third world ####hole. And if we did secede the state would become a third world ####hole in a matter of days. The federal government would not invade us or try to beat us into submission. They would lock our border down and not allow anything in or out. Then they would just starve us into submission and then we would be begging to go back to the way it was before. And guess what, we will be way worse off that what we are now. We cannot support our own population without the help of the other states and if we secede the feds will not allow interstate commerce with us any more. And if you think you will be going to work as usual it will be kind of hard to do that without any gas because it will no longer be imported. Your job won't matter anyway because companies here will go out of business when they cannot sell their items out of state or get supplies in from out of state. We would ALL loose our jobs because no other state still under federal control would be allowed to do business with us. Look at all the food that is imported into the state from other states as well as other countries. Those food items will be gone in days and all food normally imported will stop at the border. So all of you wanting to secede are willing to risk your own family starving? Then there is the medicine that will stop at the border. How many here are diabetic or have loved ones that are? They will be dead in months if they stocked up. But realistically they would probably starve before then because if they are not stockpiling medicine they do not have food stockpiled. This goes right along with those who are planning to bug out to the hills. They, and those wanting to secede, have not thought out the long term ramifications of it. I do not want to secede for a few reasons. First is everything I mentioned above. But also if we secede we no longer have a voice and we will have zero chance of effecting change in the federal government. If you want things to change write letters, make calls and send emails to your representative. How many here did that before the election or any time they disagree with something their representative does? I know I have wrote trying to influence their decisions. It is not too late. We will have the most important elections in the next few years. If we loose the majority in congress, which we probably will unless something is done, the democrats will forever change this nation. I said it before and I will say it again. Be careful what you wish for, you might actually get it. If you are truly patriotic to this country you should not be wanting to leave it but fight for it. Dolomite

[quote name='TNcitizen22' timestamp='1352779738' post='844672'] Perhaps I am out of touch, or just unwilling to accept the 'truth'. I think anyone who genuinely believes this half-assed attempt at a succession is a good idea is freaking out of their mind. You have no idea the kind of hell that would be brought upon us (read: YOU) in a matter of days. It would not be fun, revolutionary, or whatever idealistic viewpoint you have on it. Anyone who signs this has never set foot into a third world country, and you should if you are foolish enough to want this. If you did, you wouldn't dream of such a stupid idea. [/quote] This country needs a revolution. And I guess I'm the idiot thats been in a third world country and in a combat zone and still signed. And as someone who has served for this country, and sees that it is coming to a crossroad. I'd rather die for a state I believed in than live in a country I am quickly beginning to not believe in. Don't take this the wrong way, I know how blessed this country has been, but I am disgusted with where we are headed and we are headed there quickly.

how are you crossing the Ohio River? You need to get busy with lawn mower parts and old computers

Without a family to worry about I'd say go for the Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid ending. That being said, at this point you either have enough knowledge of the outdoors to hide out and survive in the forests, or you starve trying.

There's always some voter fraud in an election, but seldom are their allegations of industrial-strength "Chicago Style" voter fraud corruption on such a massive scale: **************************************************************************** [size=5][size=6][b]Was the 2012 Election Stolen?[/b] [size=5][b]By[/b] [url="http://www.americanthinker.com/selwyn_duke/"][b]Selwyn Duke[/b][/url][/size][/size] [font=times new roman,times]As the 2012 election approached, conservative enthusiasm grew. Mitt Romney was drawing huge crowds while Barack Obama spoke in half-filled stadiums. All the passion lay on the right while the left was discouraged with a promised messiah who proved merely a politician. And the prediction was that, in contrast to 2008, Republican turnout would dwarf the tuned-out and carry the day. Hence the shock November 6 eve. How could Romney lose, especially by such a wide electoral margin?[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Maybe he didn't[/font] [font=times new roman,times]At least not legitimately.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]When I [/font][url="http://selwynduke.typepad.com/selwyndukecom/2012/10/will-vote-fraud-win-the-election-for-obama.html"][font=times new roman,times]predicted Obama's re-election[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times], I stated that, despite our country's inexorable leftist slide, Romney would still win on Election Day were it not for vote fraud. I explained that the Democrats could steal more than enough votes in crucial swing states to turn the election. And I still believe what I did then: electoral criminality put Obama over the top.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]At the time, we heard stories about [/font][url="http://myfox8.com/2012/10/23/guilford-county-voters-say-they-voted-for-the-wrong-candidate/"][font=times new roman,times]electronic-machine "glitches"[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] switching Romney votes to Obama ones. And Patrick Moran, son of Congressman Jim Moran (D-VA), was [/font][url="http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/video-captures-dem-campaign-chief-plotting-vote-fraud/"][font=times new roman,times]caught on tape[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] facilitating vote fraud while Bridgeport, CT mayor Bill Finch essentially [/font][url="http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/connecticut-dem-jokes-about-corruption_654445.html"][font=times new roman,times]promised[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] to commit same for a political partner in crime. [/font] [font=times new roman,times]Since then, the indications of electoral criminality have been overwhelming. First there are the anecdotes, such as the court-appointed Republican poll watchers illegally expelled from 13 Philadelphia polling places in wards that, in most cases, went 99 percent for Obama; the poll observers who noted what they considered vote fraud but were powerless to stop; and the Democrats who actually [/font][url="http://www.examiner.com/article/fraud-some-told-they-already-voted-others-brag-about-voting-multiple-times"][font=times new roman,times]bragged about[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] voting more than once.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Then there are the statistics, such as [/font][url="http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20121112_In_59_Philadelphia_voting_wards__Mitt_Romney_got_zero_votes.html"][font=times new roman,times]this[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] staggering fact: in 59 Philadelphia districts, Romney failed to get [i]even one vote[/i]. Final Obama-Romney tally: 19,605 to 0.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Huh? Not even one person voted GOP accidentally? I mean, there even was a Washington, D.C. councilman who inadvertently voted to approve faux marriage, [/font][url="http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Confused-Barry-Asks-for-Same-Sex-Marriage-Vote-Back.html"][font=times new roman,times]saying[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] that he didn't know what he was voting for (that would be Marion Barry).[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Next, consider [/font][url="http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/09/16/voter-rolls-in-ohio-are-bloated-experts-say.html"][font=times new roman,times]this report[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] from [i]The Columbus Dispatch[/i]: [/font][/size] [indent=1] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]More than one out of every five registered Ohio voters is probably ineligible to vote.[/font][/size][/indent] [indent=1] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]In two counties, the number of registered voters actually exceeds the voting-age population: Northwestern Ohio's Wood County shows 109 registered voters for every 100 eligible, while in Lawrence County along the Ohio River it's a mere 104 registered per 100 eligible.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Another 31 counties show registrations at more than 90 percent of those eligible, a rate regarded as unrealistic by most voting experts. The national average is a little more than 70 percent.[/font] [font=times new roman,times][...]Of the Buckeye State's 7.8 million registered voters, nearly 1.6 million are regarded as "inactive."[/font][/size][/indent] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]Understand the significance. Years ago I was [/font][url="http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/08/democrats_and_deep_vote_fraud.html"][font=times new roman,times]contacted[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] by a Washington, D.C. community leader (who'll remain anonymous) who told me that he had "done some computer work for several candidates over the years in DC" and had conducted his own study of urban vote fraud. He said that inner cities' great transiency ensures that any given large metropolis will have a great number of voters who no longer live in their precinct of registration. These areas also have Democrat operatives known by the get-out-the-vote term "block captains" or "apartment captains," people who know the lay of the land and thus what registered voters have left town. So all they need do then is vote for these people or have others do so. This is very easy, too, with few voter-ID laws. And this is why Democrats oppose these laws so vehemently.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Now consider that Obama "won" Ohio by 100,000 votes. This means that to flip the state, Democrat surrogates had to illegally "activate" only [i]6.25 percent[/i] of its 1.6 million inactive voters.[/font][/size] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]Note also that Ohio secretary of state Jon Husted did ask Eric Holder's DOJ for help negotiating conflicting federal laws pertaining to the purging ineligible voters from the rolls. The DOJ's ultimate response? "No comment."[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Yet a voter doesn't even have to be inactive, just disengaged. For example, when the aforementioned Patrick Moran offered advice on surrogate voting, he told an undercover reporter to masquerade as a pollster and call a targeted individual to make sure he wasn't planning to vote. And this is nothing new. In fact, liberal leg-thriller Chris Matthews himself [/font][url="http://spectator.org/blog/2012/06/27/did-chris-matthews-participate"][font=times new roman,times]admitted[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] that it has been going on for years.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Then there is the case of the missing military ballots. As Rachel Alexander at [i]Town Hall [/i][/font][url="http://townhall.com/columnists/rachelalexander/2012/11/11/obama_likely_won_reelection_through_election_fraud/page/2"][font=times new roman,times]reported[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times]:[/font][/size] [indent=1] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]The conservative-leaning military vote has [/font][url="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/01/military-ballot-requests-down-in-key-battleground-states/"][font=times new roman,times]decreased[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] drastically since 2010 due to the so-called Military Voter Protection Act that was enacted into law the year before. It has made it so difficult for overseas military personnel to obtain absentee ballots that in Virginia and Ohio there has been a 70% decrease in requests for ballots since 2008. In Virginia, almost 30,000 fewer overseas military voters requested ballots than in 2008. In Ohio, more than 20,000 fewer overseas military voters requested ballots. This is significant considering Obama won in both states by a little over 100,000 votes.[/font][/size][/indent] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]Frankly, it is inconceivable that military interest in voting could've dropped so drastically given conservatives' passion this election season. The damning conclusion? The Obama machine wants our soldiers to shed blood while it sheds their votes.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Striking as all this is, however, it's likely just a partial picture. As with all crime, it's a given that the discovered vote fraudsters represent only a tiny percentage of the total. And what about vote-fraud methods we haven't even thought of yet? Remember, the Democrats have been honing this act for many, many years.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]And vote fraud is Democrat domain. Liberals are the situational-values set, people who for years insisted that right and wrong is relative and that if it feels good, do it. And what feels good to them at election time is stealing votes to win - and they do it. They relish it, in fact. Like the liberal who addressed Bill Clinton's it-depends-on-what-is-is infidelity and adamantly told me, "He did the [i]right[/i] thing," leftists love the con. To pull a fast one like private eye Jim Rockford, fool everyone, and get away with it is like winning the Nobel Prize in Prevarication in their world. Thus, it's assured that there's no small number of liberals who are currently brimming with pride at having negated the votes of countless knuckle-dragging conservatives. [/font] [font=times new roman,times]Having said this, we can't be sure about the exact magnitude of the vote fraud. But my judgment is this:[/font] [font=times new roman,times]The election was likely stolen. [/font] [font=times new roman,times]And whatever Barack Obama is presently, I don't believe he will be a legitimate president come January 20.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]This is why Congressman Allen West was right not to concede his Florida race. And, frankly, if Romney believes that the election may have been stolen nationally, he should withdraw his concession.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Radical?[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Unprecedented?[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Yes, but so is vote fraud on the scale perpetrated by Obama's minions. And people needn't fear creating a national crisis - [i]we are already in a national crisis[/i]. The only question is whether good Americans will stand and be counted or allow 2012 to mark our official descent into banana-republic status.[/font] Read more: [url="http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/11/was_the_2012_election_stolen.html#ixzz2C7ai2lA3"]http://www.americant...l#ixzz2C7ai2lA3[/url][/size]

[quote name='gregintenn' timestamp='1352860617' post='845181'] Chill out...you are way overthinking this. [/quote]I just had to tell my Son the very samething with iron sights.

[quote name='Sour Kraut' timestamp='1352860286' post='845176'] Not to change subjects ..I seen the Jaegermeister car..I am German and growing up in Germany..I used to drink that stuff like coffee..it was always around in our house. If I so much as smell this stuff now it makes me want to hurl..lol... If you not have went yet..Try to get a trip to Munich and to the BMW museum..") [/quote] I did two tours to Germany. 88-91 Buedingen and later Mainz 95-97 Schweinfurt So I have done Germany up, down, and around

[quote name='JHC77' timestamp='1352833031' post='844904'] .... Being an 870, would it be better just to order an 18" barrel and let it be or just pickup another shotgun? About $170 for the barrel ...[/quote] Mossberg makes 870 barrels too, and they're just fine, much cheaper than Remington ones. - OS

I am all for those who have paid their dues to regain their gun right providing the crime was not violent in nature. Domestic violence is violent by nature. So there is no way anyone who has plead guilty to or been convicted of domestic violence should have a gun in their possession. Also, any man who is violent towards a women is a slimy POS and should face far worse penalties than just loosing their gun rights. They are an animal and should be treated as such. They should have to pay the women for what will become a lifetime of hurt the women will have to endure after a violent attack. I can't wrap my mind around why you are posting this. Dolomite

[quote name='Rightwinger' timestamp='1352851556' post='845086'] Here we go......the Croc's are ghey thread is revived. [/quote] Don't forget toe shoes.

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352844849' post='845043']? Its pretty clear the morons in D.C. dont give a rats ass for anyone of us. They are, and have been, on a power trip for many, many years. Nothing will likely stem for this, but it still sends a clear message IMO. [/quote] Of course, that is a given. But that is like leaving the Thanksgiving turkey on the counter where the dog can get it, then getting pissed at the dog when he eats it. It ain't the dogs fault; it's his nature. The fault lies with the dummy that gave him access to the turkey. The issue here is that you blame career politicians for being crooked. It is in their nature. They're made up of slimy lawyers and power hungry trust fund babies. No, the fault lies in your fellow Americans that allow this to happen. We are all to blame. The crappy part is that Americans are to f-ing stupid to see that, so they latch on to one party or the other in hopes that they win out on certain policies that are most important to them, as they continue to hand over the reins to a one of the two crooked parties. The answer to that is not to completely throw away our system of government, revolt and prop up an illegitimate power. The answer is to reject the two party system and fire our leaders peacefully. If you and your fellow Americans are too damn lazy/selfish/ignorant to do that get ready to suck it up with the rest of us as we crash our economy.

[quote name='RevScottie' timestamp='1352840491' post='844981'] Seems a lot of folks are sitting around in Tin Foil Hats watching their worn out VHS tapes of Red Dawn. The real reason this treaty hasnt already been signed is that the US is a huge exporter of arms and even the Obama administration wasnt going to sign something that cut the monies made from it. [/quote] You really think Obama cares about small arms trade from the US to others? LOL All he and the anti-gun folks care about is disarming American citizens, period. They're just in the early planing stages of trying to figure out how to do it without causing a revolt from the gun owners that are willing to fight for their rights!

My brother shoots a T/C and was having the same problems with pellets @ 150gr. He dropped down to 100 and it is as accurate as can be now.

http://www.fisherhouse.org/about/ http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/denzel.asp

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352836999' post='844939'] Yes, it was a stinking mess. That's why it is so puzzling to hear people talking about doing it again. Civil unrest and secession aren't just ideas that you casually float around. [/quote] Though we seem to be on the opposite side of the larger issue, I agree with this statement. They are ideas that aren't just casually floated, but who says there is anything casual about this discussion of these topics? The constitution that you, me and many others here swore that oath to defend isn't just about our current administration, or any administration over our history. It is about the ideas of freedom and personal liberty. It was written to protect those ideals and for the people to be able to retain them. The US government lost it's way before our grandparents were born. At this point I truly believe the government to be an enemy of the people of this nation and the constitution we swore an oath to defend. The only way to save the latter, is to destroy to former as reformation is impossible at this point. I could be completely wrong. Maybe in a few years the people and the states will rise up and peacefully reclaim what was stolen from them by the socialist central planners on both sides of the aisle in DC. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.

Look into how much is actually used for the wounded. You will be even more disgusted. We would spend money on it then we found out the amount for the "administration". They started with good intentions but now it is a greed based organization. Executive directors at the WWP are making $200K+ annually. By contrast the DAV and the VFW directors take no money for what they do. Dolomite

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352836668' post='844933'] No one is standing up for the administration or regime as you call it. It's about not wanting another civil war because a bunch of sore losers got their panties in a wad. I would be willing to wager you that we will still be The United States of America in four years and no state is leaving. [/quote] I disagree. A year or so will tell. I'm thinking Obama unrestrained by re-election will tip his Dictator hand. He's already showing the signs, with his desire to go it alone, with his contempt for the Congress and the Senate, with his contempt for the Supreme Court, and with his long list of Executive Actions. And especially, with his influence over the ancient Mob, for the Mob it be. The ignorant, the grasping, the emotional, the depraved, the enraged Mob.

[quote name='Glenn' timestamp='1352832651' post='844898'] What I want in a politician is real simple. Tell us before the election what you stand for. Then after the election, STAND FOR IT. [/quote] Not simple. Damn near impossible.

What I want in a politician is real simple. Tell us before the election what you stand for. Then after the election, STAND FOR IT.

My My My Give it up.

As close as this race was and not 1 vote? I didn't hit my head that hard when I fell off the turnip truck last night.

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1352826801' post='844853'] Certainly the perception is the same here in regard to minorities. I'm from the land of trailer parks and Florida. I know just how worthless and teet sucking white people can be. [/quote] I don't think one can really understand this until you've been to white cracker Florida. It takes it to a whole different level.

[quote name='crimsonaudio' timestamp='1352819920' post='844814'] Haha, so whether they even read it or not, no matter how they reply, or don't, it's a response? [i]"They ignored our outrageous request completely - victory!"[/i] [/quote] Yes it is. This government is "of, by and for the people". We retained the right to petition Congress for a redress of grievances. There is no requirement for Congress to redress our grievances, but we're giving them the opportunity, within the constraints of Supreme Law of the Land, the Constitution. Lack of redress, from another government in another time, led to the founding of this new country. It wasn't a pleasant process. I don't expect Congress to cut Tennessee or any other state loose, but this hopefully starts a conversation about grievances between the people and their creation - the Federal goverment. It's how it's done, legally, when our elected representatives can't or won't represent our interests. It's appropriate when elections don't change the massively unpopular direction of the government. It's appropriate when a large portion of the people, even though apparently a minority, don't like their treatment by the apparent majority. It's appropriate to avoid a tyranny of the majority. It's something our government has always had trouble understanding and dealing with -- people who lose elections still have rights equal to those who won the election. No majority has the right to feed on the minority.

[quote name='scoutfsu' timestamp='1352816989' post='844784'] That and pick up your damn brass when you shoot in a National Park. And don't drink. And don't smoke illegal drugs. And don't illegally kill wildlife. And generally be respectful, consciences of other people enjoying the Park. It sounds like they've had many complaints, things were getting out of hand, and they're stepping up enforcement/trying to stem the flow of stupidity. Gun owners are their own worst enemy sometimes. I would rather them tell the retards to go police their brass than shut the park down to shooting. I'm surprised they didn't do the latter. [/quote]Pretty radical exhortations there.

Very dirty business going on. Dirtier than General nailing a wacky groupie.

Regardless of the wording, regardless of the originator, it meets the requirements of the government's website. If it gets the required number of votes in the specified time, it will provoke a response from the government. Even if the government ignores it, which I expect it will, it's a response. It will hopefully become a "link in a chain of evidence" that the federal government intends to enslave us.

[color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]DIVORCE AGREEMENT--[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]WRITTEN BY YOUNG COLLEGE STUDENT[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]The person who wrote this is a college student. Perhaps there is hope for us after all.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]AGREEMENT[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]THIS IS SO INCREDIBLY WELL PUT AND I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE IT'S BY A YOUNG PERSON, A STUDENT!!! WHATEVER HE RUNS FOR, I'LL VOTE FOR HIM.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al: We h[/size][/font][/color][color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4] ave stuck together since the late 1950's for the sake of the kids, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course. Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way. Here is a our separation agreement: --Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes. --We don't like redistributive taxes so you can keep them. --You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU. --Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military. --We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and the coal mines, and you can go with wind, solar and biodiesel. --You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O'Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them. --We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street. --You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless, homeboys, hippies, druggies and illegal aliens. --We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks. --We'll keep Bill O?Reilly, and Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood . --You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us. --You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we'll help provide them security. --We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values. --You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness and Shirley McClain. You can also have the U.N. but we will no longer be paying the bill. --We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Volt and Leaf you can find. --You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing doctors. --We'll continue to believe healthcare is a luxury and not a right.. --We'll keep "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" and "The National Anthem." --I'm sure you'll be happy to substitute "Imagine", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", "Kum Ba Ya" or "We Are the World". --We'll practice trickle-down economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot. --Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our flag. Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like-minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you might think about which one of us will need whose help in 15 years. Sincerely, John J. Wall Law Student and an American P.S. Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin & Charlie Sheen, Barbara Streisand, & ( Hanoi ) Jane Fonda with you. P.S.S. And you won't have to press 1 for English when you call our country.[/size][/font][/color]

I do not understand how someone can possibly call themselves a pro 2A Democrat. It's like a calling yourself a Republican and supporting all the social programs that come down the pipe. IMO, and not meaning to offend, the anti-2A stance is fundamental to the Democrat platform and is such a large issue it cannot be ignored.

A better solution would be for the "state" to take back its full states rights and opt out of all the blackmail federal programs, laws and regulations. Stop collecting federal taxes and sending it to Washington. If it's not granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution, it's the states and peoples alone.

I will not be surprised at all if we see civil unrest but not due to secession from the union. However, there is something appealing about the "CSA" (Conservative States of America).

A bit far. I would totally watch / listen to it on utoob or webinar or whatever if that is an option, maybe you can record it and share it with more folks as well as live?