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I would like it to be known that many years ago I swore an oath to protect this country against ALL enemies foreign and domestic. There are millions more like me. Wanting to destroy OUR country because you didn't get your way in a election is STUPID! Don't bite off more than you can chew!

[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1352747674' post='844373'] My point is simply that it would send a message if 26x25000 (650000) people showed their dissatisfaction. [/quote] Last Tuesday 59 MILLION people got off their azz and went to a polling place to show their dissatisfaction. They showed ID and signed their real names with their real addresses. It made no difference. What makes you think 650K people doing nothing more than clicking on a web link would send any kind of a message or that anyone would care? There isn’t going to be any secession by any state. Our government is not going to be overthrown by any radical forces because it is protected by Patriots. The only way you are going to change our government is at the polling place. Many of the middle class is too busy or too indifferent to vote. The poor and those living off the government are voting and they are voting for bigger monthly checks and free healthcare. Internet petitions are a joke.

Screw it, I'm posting A lot of people that took that same oath believe the current regime to be a domestic threat. Just letting you know that there's people, including vets, that would push that issue both ways. I'm recently discharged, and I can tell you a lot of newer vets, as well as active duty, won't obey unlawful orders from a corrupt Socialist Regime. [quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1352830771' post='844883'] Yep and they won't be dead martyrs or Patriots; they will just be dead terrorists. I took the oath, and if you want to change my country you will do it at the polling place because if you try it by force you will lose. [/quote] Funny thing is they called Washington and all the other founding fathers terrorist, traitors and worse. Remember history is written by the victor of the battle.

Republicans and conservatives tend to be law abiding while liberals do not have a problem cheating. We have seen it time and time again. Yes both sides cheat but the ratio is not 1 to 1. Dolomite

This topic gets my dander up so give me a minute to run to the basement and collect my soap box podium... The Federal government has no business in our collective hive schools, much less dictating what is to be taught, how to teach it, standardize it and fund it. In far too many cases, our schools have become nothing more than day care centers, distractions and obstacles to children who want to learn and are held back. If you know your history, you're aware children were much better educated in the three "R's" prior to the Fed's involvement. Does our "Bill of Rights" include a right to an education, or a free Bachelor's degree paid for by tax payers for convicted prison felons? How's this mess all working out? Too much class room time is wasted on health education (sex education), gay life style and diseases, etc., that's the parents responsibility. If you're a parent, take a look at your child's books and study material selected and approved for them by a national education agency. They're being indoctrinated and brain washed into liberalism, not free thinking. Our Colleges and Universities are even worse and they're paying big bucks to get brain dead? First and foremost, it's the parents responsibility to teach their children "everything". Right from wrong, good from evil, math, reading, history, the birds and bee's, ethics, political science, health, physical fitness, etc. It's no one else's responsibility, period. Many parents don't have the knowledge, skills and abilities to provide a quality education in all aspects of learning for their children, so... The COMMUNITY gets together and determines how to best share knowledge / resources and transfer it to their children in the form of doing it themselves, as in hiring a qualified dedicated teacher(s). And supporting those services provided from the community in which they live. Given the choice, how many communities would support and fund alternative schools for disruptive children with learning and/or behavior issues? I owe my children a roof over their head, cloths on their backs, food everyday, and a honest and accurate education on what I can afford, no one else's children. O.K., just returned my soap box to the basement guys

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352844849' post='845043'] Seems to me that most of the people against this are the first ones to say they love freedom, but look down upon, and critcize those actually making an attempt to get the focus of the government back where it needs to be. The interests of the poeple. Its not about being a sore loser in the elections like some people claim. If thats the case, then why isnt the petition for an election re-count skyrocketing with signers? Its about being dragged along into a sea of debt, having liberties stripped and destroying our rights that so many have fought and died for, again and again. For those of you who think voting will make it better, tell that to the several million voters who's vote didnt count once Obama had already won with several states left to get counted. It happens every election time and time again. The 2 party system is a joke at best, and niether ever give a damn about you or me, and they never will. Is it that hard to see that our current system is way out of control? [/quote] Yah, none of us who think this pointless / useless petition is a silly exercise are for any sort of reform, we're all just Obama-loving tax and spend communists. </sarcasm> Maybe some people see this for what it is - a waste of energy. Nothing, zero, nada is going to come from this and the timing of this - directly after the election with no legislation happening which would cause the uproar - makes it look like a bunch of butt-hurt repubs who can't get over the fact they lost. Believe it or not, there are actually effective ways of communicating with government officials beyond preposterous requests that will yield something other than an eye roll.

As much as I admire the Wounded Warrior Project, I find this disturbing. Additionally, as a now retired warrior, I really dislike the mindset that we're all wounded in some fashion or other, and therefore victims. That mindset only makes it more difficult for Veterans to re-integrate in civil society, and can tend to create an attitude boundary that makes it hard for Veterans to become employed. Overcoming the difficulties of war does not create a lesser person, it creates a greater, a larger, a more capable person. Great enough and large enough and capable enough to frighten some of the weaker men who have advantaged themselves in the Veterans' absence. Re-read the Odyssey. The story is as fresh as today.

I am torn on this issue. I am one of a few people who truely believe that we are all equal. Equality is based on equal opportunity. What one does with said opportunity is what makes the difference. Race has no dog in this fight...

I didn't vote for the bastard. For all who did - you own this s___! I don't have any representation in Washington or Nashville. I'm beginning to wonder if voting can change anything -- it's starting to look like a rigged game to me. You choose door "A" or door "B", but they both go to the same room.

I wouldn't think you would have an eye relief problem, but in case you do, Weaver makes offset mounts to accomoday short scopes, incorrect eye relief, etc. As for the torque, just turn the screws good and tight without trying to twist the heads off. I've mounted close to 100 scopes, and never used a torque driver, and never had any problems. Chill out...you are way overthinking this. Let us know how the Ruger shoots. Oh yeah, you'll probably need high rings for that monster scope.

If I was a Romney voter in one of those precincts, I guarantee I would be on the news because of all the noise I'd be making. There HAS to be some Romney votes in there. This reeks of criminal voter fraud. Where is the outcry ? If our elections can be openly stolen without reprimand then our freedom is already gone.

Yes, but in all my years in LE I have yet to see one person be forced to plead guilty. The judge asks the defendent if he agrees to the plea and when the person says "yes" they become convicted of domestic abuse. If you don't want to plea then go to trial, that way you can explain your side of the story and let the jury make the decision. Heck, in a lot of cases they will let the abuser plea down to a lesser charge if it is their first time. A bruise is all it takes IMHO. If you are manhandling a women enough to leave a bruise then you are a POS and should loose [u]everything[/u]. Not just your gun rights. And most of those who[u] are [/u]abusers tned to be whiny asses and will cry anytime they think they are being abused. If you lay hands on a women during an argument in order to comtrol her or win the argument you are a POS. Dolomite

I like my toe shoes.

Where were all you guys who are so pissed about losing your rights when the Patriot Act was enacted (or the three further authorizations)? I'm no Obama-apologist, but it strikes me as odd that none of this 'liberty or death' talk was heard when Bush was in office.

Liberals believe that the end justifies the means. They have proven this time and time again. So why would we think they would not try to keep Obama in office through nefarious methods?

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352829006' post='844866'] I would like it to be known that many years ago I swore an oath to protect this country against ALL enemies foreign and domestic. There are millions more like me. Wanting to destroy OUR country because you didn't get your way in a election is STUPID! Don't bite off more than you can chew! [/quote] Yep and they won't be dead martyrs or Patriots; they will just be dead terrorists. I took the oath, and if you want to change my country you will do it at the polling place because if you try it by force you will lose.

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1352823477' post='844834'] Not quite true. If you don't parse out the percentages of recipients in relation to percentage of population and only look at the raw numbers, there are more whites on welfare. In fact the single largest user of TANF is the single white mother. Believe it or not, there are still more of us crackers in this country than anyone else.[/quote] Yes, but the perception is different. I was just reading a story about widespread attacks against middle eastern immigrants in Greece as retaliation for their bankrupt ass gov. The immigrants aren't the ones sucking the Greek tit dry; it's the entitled Greeks that have had their hands out all along. Certainly the perception is the same here in regard to minorities. I'm from the land of trailer parks and Florida. I know just how worthless and teet sucking white people can be.

[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1352821702' post='844826'] I think there will also be a heavy racial element to it as well. Lets face it there are a lot more minorities on the dole than whites. Besides the opposition to Obama will be seen by the blacks as racist.[/quote] Not quite true. If you don't parse out the percentages of recipients in relation to percentage of population and only look at the raw numbers, there are more whites on welfare. In fact the single largest user of TANF is the single white mother. Believe it or not, there are still more of us crackers in this country than anyone else.

I guess I missed the notice that you lose Fourth amendment protections when you enter a National Park. Two simple phrases are all you need to say: 1) I do not consent to a search. 2) Have a nice day, officer.

As much as I hate what the country is becoming we are far from being a third world ####hole. And if we did secede the state would become a third world ####hole in a matter of days. The federal government would not invade us or try to beat us into submission. They would lock our border down and not allow anything in or out. Then they would just starve us into submission and then we would be begging to go back to the way it was before. And guess what, we will be way worse off that what we are now. We cannot support our own population without the help of the other states and if we secede the feds will not allow interstate commerce with us any more. And if you think you will be going to work as usual it will be kind of hard to do that without any gas because it will no longer be imported. Your job won't matter anyway because companies here will go out of business when they cannot sell their items out of state or get supplies in from out of state. We would ALL loose our jobs because no other state still under federal control would be allowed to do business with us. Look at all the food that is imported into the state from other states as well as other countries. Those food items will be gone in days and all food normally imported will stop at the border. So all of you wanting to secede are willing to risk your own family starving? Then there is the medicine that will stop at the border. How many here are diabetic or have loved ones that are? They will be dead in months if they stocked up. But realistically they would probably starve before then because if they are not stockpiling medicine they do not have food stockpiled. This goes right along with those who are planning to bug out to the hills. They, and those wanting to secede, have not thought out the long term ramifications of it. I do not want to secede for a few reasons. First is everything I mentioned above. But also if we secede we no longer have a voice and we will have zero chance of effecting change in the federal government. If you want things to change write letters, make calls and send emails to your representative. How many here did that before the election or any time they disagree with something their representative does? I know I have wrote trying to influence their decisions. It is not too late. We will have the most important elections in the next few years. If we loose the majority in congress, which we probably will unless something is done, the democrats will forever change this nation. I said it before and I will say it again. Be careful what you wish for, you might actually get it. If you are truly patriotic to this country you should not be wanting to leave it but fight for it. Dolomite

[quote name='TNcitizen22' timestamp='1352779738' post='844672'] Perhaps I am out of touch, or just unwilling to accept the 'truth'. I think anyone who genuinely believes this half-assed attempt at a succession is a good idea is freaking out of their mind. You have no idea the kind of hell that would be brought upon us (read: YOU) in a matter of days. It would not be fun, revolutionary, or whatever idealistic viewpoint you have on it. Anyone who signs this has never set foot into a third world country, and you should if you are foolish enough to want this. If you did, you wouldn't dream of such a stupid idea. [/quote] This country needs a revolution. And I guess I'm the idiot thats been in a third world country and in a combat zone and still signed. And as someone who has served for this country, and sees that it is coming to a crossroad. I'd rather die for a state I believed in than live in a country I am quickly beginning to not believe in. Don't take this the wrong way, I know how blessed this country has been, but I am disgusted with where we are headed and we are headed there quickly.

how are you crossing the Ohio River? You need to get busy with lawn mower parts and old computers

Without a family to worry about I'd say go for the Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid ending. That being said, at this point you either have enough knowledge of the outdoors to hide out and survive in the forests, or you starve trying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEg1VNfX3o&feature=share

yes i will be there

correct. BTW.. pack your crap out. Leave it cleaner than you found it.

[quote name='CCI' timestamp='1352857163' post='845145']All it takes is an argument, and a bruise, even a small bruise! To many people hear the word domestic violence, and envision a woman that has been beat up! Women will even create their own bruise(s), when the husband tells her he wants a divorce![/quote] Don't marry and crazy broad and don't plead guilty to a crime you didn't commit. We all make choices blah blah blah....

Progress : In the old days dictators would have purges to kill off the officers they didn't like. Nowadays they just get some dirt and blackmail them out of town

[quote name='BrettB' timestamp='1352774133' post='844625'] Alrighty, we can have a zombie section, but we cant have a foreign invasion section because that would never happen.... Okay. LOL. [/quote] Go to Zombie thread. Substitute zombie for any foreign invasion force and you have ready made scenarios.

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352844849' post='845043']? Its pretty clear the morons in D.C. dont give a rats ass for anyone of us. They are, and have been, on a power trip for many, many years. Nothing will likely stem for this, but it still sends a clear message IMO. [/quote] Of course, that is a given. But that is like leaving the Thanksgiving turkey on the counter where the dog can get it, then getting pissed at the dog when he eats it. It ain't the dogs fault; it's his nature. The fault lies with the dummy that gave him access to the turkey. The issue here is that you blame career politicians for being crooked. It is in their nature. They're made up of slimy lawyers and power hungry trust fund babies. No, the fault lies in your fellow Americans that allow this to happen. We are all to blame. The crappy part is that Americans are to f-ing stupid to see that, so they latch on to one party or the other in hopes that they win out on certain policies that are most important to them, as they continue to hand over the reins to a one of the two crooked parties. The answer to that is not to completely throw away our system of government, revolt and prop up an illegitimate power. The answer is to reject the two party system and fire our leaders peacefully. If you and your fellow Americans are too damn lazy/selfish/ignorant to do that get ready to suck it up with the rest of us as we crash our economy.

[quote name='RevScottie' timestamp='1352840491' post='844981'] Seems a lot of folks are sitting around in Tin Foil Hats watching their worn out VHS tapes of Red Dawn. The real reason this treaty hasnt already been signed is that the US is a huge exporter of arms and even the Obama administration wasnt going to sign something that cut the monies made from it. [/quote] You really think Obama cares about small arms trade from the US to others? LOL All he and the anti-gun folks care about is disarming American citizens, period. They're just in the early planing stages of trying to figure out how to do it without causing a revolt from the gun owners that are willing to fight for their rights!

My brother shoots a T/C and was having the same problems with pellets @ 150gr. He dropped down to 100 and it is as accurate as can be now.

http://www.fisherhouse.org/about/ http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/denzel.asp

[quote name='crimsonaudio' timestamp='1352840578' post='844984'] Where were all you guys who are so pissed about losing your rights when the Patriot Act was enacted (or the three further authorizations)? I'm no Obama-apologist, but it strikes me as odd that none of this 'liberty or death' talk was heard when Bush was in office. [/quote] It was said then on the liberal boards. I saw the same stuff on them in 2004. "King George" wouldn't leave in 4 years. He'd order marshal law and not step down. It was idiocy then. Nothing has changed.

Fisher House is where I suggest people donate their money.

Look into how much is actually used for the wounded. You will be even more disgusted. We would spend money on it then we found out the amount for the "administration". They started with good intentions but now it is a greed based organization. Executive directors at the WWP are making $200K+ annually. By contrast the DAV and the VFW directors take no money for what they do. Dolomite

[quote name='Glenn' timestamp='1352832651' post='844898'] What I want in a politician is real simple. Tell us before the election what you stand for. Then after the election, STAND FOR IT. [/quote] Not simple. Damn near impossible.

The Obama witch hunt has started. Anyone that might be a threat now or in the future will be gotten rid of.

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1352826801' post='844853'] Certainly the perception is the same here in regard to minorities. I'm from the land of trailer parks and Florida. I know just how worthless and teet sucking white people can be. [/quote] I don't think one can really understand this until you've been to white cracker Florida. It takes it to a whole different level.

Yep saw this yesterday.....but what is going to happen....nothing

[quote name='scoutfsu' timestamp='1352816989' post='844784'] That and pick up your damn brass when you shoot in a National Park. And don't drink. And don't smoke illegal drugs. And don't illegally kill wildlife. And generally be respectful, consciences of other people enjoying the Park. It sounds like they've had many complaints, things were getting out of hand, and they're stepping up enforcement/trying to stem the flow of stupidity. Gun owners are their own worst enemy sometimes. I would rather them tell the retards to go police their brass than shut the park down to shooting. I'm surprised they didn't do the latter. [/quote]Pretty radical exhortations there.

[quote name='gregintenn' timestamp='1352766985' post='844552']Clayton was actually the Democrat nominee. You may remember the Democrat party tried to kick him off the ballot after he slipped in and won the primary.[/quote] I recall him seeming a little "off" in an interview I saw him in.

[color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]DIVORCE AGREEMENT--[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]WRITTEN BY YOUNG COLLEGE STUDENT[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]The person who wrote this is a college student. Perhaps there is hope for us after all.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]AGREEMENT[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]THIS IS SO INCREDIBLY WELL PUT AND I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE IT'S BY A YOUNG PERSON, A STUDENT!!! WHATEVER HE RUNS FOR, I'LL VOTE FOR HIM.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4]Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al: We h[/size][/font][/color][color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=4] ave stuck together since the late 1950's for the sake of the kids, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course. Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way. Here is a our separation agreement: --Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes. --We don't like redistributive taxes so you can keep them. --You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU. --Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military. --We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and the coal mines, and you can go with wind, solar and biodiesel. --You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O'Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them. --We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street. --You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless, homeboys, hippies, druggies and illegal aliens. --We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks. --We'll keep Bill O?Reilly, and Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood . --You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us. --You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we'll help provide them security. --We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values. --You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness and Shirley McClain. You can also have the U.N. but we will no longer be paying the bill. --We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Volt and Leaf you can find. --You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing doctors. --We'll continue to believe healthcare is a luxury and not a right.. --We'll keep "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" and "The National Anthem." --I'm sure you'll be happy to substitute "Imagine", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", "Kum Ba Ya" or "We Are the World". --We'll practice trickle-down economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot. --Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our flag. Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like-minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you might think about which one of us will need whose help in 15 years. Sincerely, John J. Wall Law Student and an American P.S. Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin & Charlie Sheen, Barbara Streisand, & ( Hanoi ) Jane Fonda with you. P.S.S. And you won't have to press 1 for English when you call our country.[/size][/font][/color]

I do not understand how someone can possibly call themselves a pro 2A Democrat. It's like a calling yourself a Republican and supporting all the social programs that come down the pipe. IMO, and not meaning to offend, the anti-2A stance is fundamental to the Democrat platform and is such a large issue it cannot be ignored.

I will not be surprised at all if we see civil unrest but not due to secession from the union. However, there is something appealing about the "CSA" (Conservative States of America).

I am using the beaming machine I built from spare lawn mower parts and an old laptop that used to only boot up in safe mode and beaming my family to New Zealand where they adore me and set me up in a spacious mansion on the sea coast. Complete with servants and Ma Deuce machine guns. I can have my outlandish scenarios as well as you.

[quote name='TripleDigitRide' timestamp='1352424284' post='842170'] And large melons. [/quote] My brother-in-law says he thinks she has store bought melons. Maybe from Kroger?

I got an idea! Lets kick out Tennessee instead of Texas and then none of us has to move to Texas!!!

A bit far. I would totally watch / listen to it on utoob or webinar or whatever if that is an option, maybe you can record it and share it with more folks as well as live?

Disarming the citizen who is carrying legally is nothing more than a show of power. Has nothing to do with safety of the officer.