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I lose too...I'll wait for the movie now. I don't think I'm a welcome member of the "Save George Zimmerman Fan Club"! My rating score is dropping faster than Oboma's right now, so I need to move to more intelligent threads....good day all!

Dave, Someone simply following you might cause you to be alarmed, but it would not be reasonable (ie; justified) to start smashing their head open, like Trayvon did to Zimmerman. Zimmerman may be an idiot, but he IMHO was justified in shooting the person who was violently trying to crack his skull open, a person's right of self-preservation trumps everything else.

All:___________________ I dont to replow old ground; but there were pictures out there of the z man's nose swelled up and his eyes puffed up too; as well as the cuts on the back of his head. I seem to remember that he was treated for a broken nose. It's pretty easy for me to believe that if this was, in fact, the case (...and i think it is...). That the kid (...who is 6"-2' and 180 senior high football player...) sucker punched the hell out of ole george (...who aint very big...). There is a whole lesson in this one as well. Dont ever let anyone you are in a tiff with in arm's reach of ya. But the z man may not have known that (... i bet he does now, along with lots of other stuff he should have been thinkin about before this happened...). This kid is 18 years old, and he aint a choir boy. He wuz old enough to kill for Uncle Sam (...which i think is an honorable thing, by the way....). Trayvon Martin was clearly on the cusp of the age of "adulthood", and seemed to be makin the wrong turn. Being kicked out of school and posting a thug style picture on his facebook or whatever social media page givin the world the finger and smilin with a gold tooth showin aint exactly my idea of a picture of a "contributor to society"; and, as the great jessee jackson would say: "....a role model for the youths of america...". But that's just me. I'm an old guy who is regularly around 20 somethin year olds (...not too much older than this kid...). I know some that are pretty rowdy; but i dont think any of them would whup up on an older, smaller guy over being asked a question; no matter how impertinent. I also have noticed the trend in this country is to downplay the concept of individual responsibility; and assign blame to others for personal actions. That's a bad thing. You can ignore personal responsibility; but you cant escape it. Both george zimmerman and the kid have learned (...sadly...) that individual actions can lead to irreversible consequences. While im at it; the george man looks a heluva more like elmer fudd (...i do too, by the way...) than he does a militant hard case. He looks all of about 5'-6" and about 130 pounds, with a baby face. No wonder the t man may have thought he was a pushover (...if he, in fact, did...). But, alas, looks can be deceiving. I'll freely admit that this little ramble is a combination of cloudy facts, real facts, perception, and arm chair quarterbackin as to what actually happened; and that it means absolutely nothin. But it is, i believe, a fair and valid one. Its just as fair and valid as the one that states that the t man wuz mindin his own business and was assaulted by an overzealous maddog neighborhood watch bulldog. I believe that to genuinely believe that the kid was a victim in this little tiff, is, as the great Hillary Robem Clinton would quip, is "...to suspend reality....". But that's just me. Lastly, i believe that this is a genuine item of concern and that it is a valid item for serious discussion (...both sides of it, by the way....). I also believe it should be (...and I think, is; for the most part...) discussed in a cordial, and adult fashion. AR hit a homerun shot when he said that points are well made by a combination of kindness, logic, and facts. I firmly believe that no one here is doing anything other than just that. I believe there are lots of folks watchin the gun loving and pro Second Amendment community and waiting for irresponsible and inflammatory comments to be used as fodder to prove lies. I also believe that there is a lot at stake here that could reach farther than florida. leroy

No criminal history? They are here ILLEGALLY. I understand that they may not have had control over coming here in the first place but, as adults, they have remained here ILLEGALLY. How could someone who has potentially been breaking the law for nearly a decade and a half by simply remaining here (came here at 15 and is now 29) NOT have a criminal history? Their entire history in this country has been criminal! Of course, it isn't just Obama and the Dems who pull this crap. Let's not forget the amnesty for illegals that took place under Reagan.

I wouldn't be walking in the rain, at night, in a neighborhood I have no business wandering around in.

Yep, and the problem is we can't stay out of it. As awful as genocide, war crimes and all that is, we shouldn't be in the business of helping people that aren't willing to help themselves. If the people of Somalia needed help so bad we should have showed up on their shores with a shipload of AKs and RPGs with folks to show them how to use them against Aidid and other oppressive warlords; not 20,000 Marines playing referee. When this thing gets out of hand and starts to really spill into Ethiopia what then? We all know "what", but it shouldn't be that way.

I agree fully. You are exactly right. I wouldnt want you or anyone else participating in this thread to think i'm tryin to make points by innuendo or lecturing. I aint. By the way; you can always tell when you are winnin the debate (...or discussion...). It's when the opposition runs out of valid counterpoints and either attacks your motive, manner of speech, command of the language, posting grammatical style, or calls you a name. They move away from the "facts" (...in as much as we know 'em...); and move to speculations or recirminations. It's a favorite trick of sorry polititians, race-baiters, and other vermin that speak in the public forum of the news media in order to whip up their constituencies and sway the casual observer to their point of view. leroy

I don't care who said it... I agree - abolish the IRS!

There is no conclusive evidence of that. Zimmerman was not treated for injuries. A small cut on the back of his head equals “smashing his head against the concrete� Zimmerman couldn’t push Martin off him? I don’t buy it. What if the ballistic evidence shows that Martin had stopped defending himself against this man that was chasing him and was getting up when he was shot? Unreasonable fear of being followed? He was being chased by a man with a gun that shot him to death when he tried to defend himself, I don’t that is an unreasonable fear. If someone is following you in a truck and when you try to get away they get out and chase you, and you pull your gun and tell them to get back, would you expect to be arrested for aggravated assault and have the Police tell you that you have an unreasonable fear of being followed? Following an innocent person down the street and then getting out and chasing them is unreasonable, reckless and I personally believe even rises to the level of a crime. Fight or flight. You think Martin had a duty to retreat? He was the innocent party, how was he stripped of his right to stand his ground? Just because Zimmerman had a gun and was a permit holder doesn’t make me think he was in the right or the only one protected by Stand Your Ground. The victim was Martin, the aggressor was Zimmerman.

What if Trayvon was acting in self defense when he used his fist to defend his self? Is that not a possibilty? He had no gun...so he busted Z's skull off the sidewalk. Unfortunately, the only "side of the story" we can hear is currently sitting in jail! I'm entitled to my opinion and that's it! Z-man should have followed 911 instructions...and stayed in his car and not pursued TM. If I'm walking home late at night, you follow me around then approach me...I might just be fearful enough to jack up your day! I would have no Idea why you are following me, or even why you are approaching me...are you going to rob me? Beat me up? Gang initiation? I'm not going to wait to find out. I'm walking home, minding my own affairs....I have no duty to retreat, and the right to stand my ground....something'a gonna happen! That is my whole point! Dave

I thought that their was conclusive evidence that Trayvon was (as Zimmerman claimed) indeed smashing the back of Zimmerman's head against concrete at the moment when Zimmerman discharged his firearm. So IMHO there is no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman would have had a reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death, anyone finding themselves in that situation would have. I am sorry but the whole "maybe Trayvon had an unreasonable fear of being followed" arguement just doesn't justify Trayvon repeatedly smashing a volunteer neighborhood watchman's head against the pavement.

It seems there is an assumption that accepting Islam means rejecting American ideals. It doesn't. Anyone who is curious can PM me and ask me about all the Kurds I worked with in Iraq that live in the Nashville area and have done so since the 90's. They went back to Iraq to use their language skills to serve their country at a critical time. Some didn't come back. They all loved Bush, hate Obama and never want to go back to the days of being oppressed by their government. All the while they were Muslim. Most recently I played a hand in getting another "evil" Muslim to the states who is enjoying freedom from oppression and violence, attends college and has a full time job. All the while he loves our country and still practices Islam; albeit, not to a "T". Maybe we should assume that all Muslims don't hate American ideals. For the American Muslims that do, maybe we can start making their feelings towards the government a crime so we can rid our country of them. Maybe we can call them "thought crimes"... perhaps round them up into camps until we figure out what to do with them. Yes, that sounds like the "American" thing to do.

That's how I would have handled it. They should give him a medal, a key to the city, and a parade.

lets back up a sec........I lived in NYC and every time a Prez came to down the place was a mess I remember when Reagan came and pretty much shut down half of manhattan While Im not a fan of Obama,The Prez has always made it hard for locals when he showed up

Step one, get meat. Step two, put meat on smoker. Step three, eat meat.

If I noticed someone following me, I would politely ask if they needed my assistance or something. They could be a good samaritain making sure I was ok or if I might need a ride, they might be lost and trying to find someone to ask directions from, they could be looking for a lost pet, or they might think I am someone that they know, or last but not least, they could be looking for their next victim, I wouldn't know for certain why they are following me until I stop and ask them. What I wouldn't do is ambush/assault them without first confirming they posed some sort of a threat to my safety.

I think the one thing that would help the most is term limits. They can't do as much damage, if they aren't there too long. I wish there was a way to only pay them if at the end of their 2 terms, we decide we're happy with the job they did.

Naturally if you did I would disagree.

I don't like to derail anything. If by derail you mean disagree I guess you are correct. And according to the rules of this forum I can participate in any public thread that I want.

Check again. I can see both sides of this thing. Fact is, if we don't talk about stuff like this, we may have to talk about guns or something.

I'm a simple person, but it sounds like you were describing the classic "circle jerk" and I agree with you. Screw em! I lose.

^^^ Wikipedia? REALLY??? That aside; nothing in there suggest that Zimmerman did anything overtly threatening to Martin (indeed it appears that Zimmerman had lost sight of Martin completely)...noting in the evidence you posted (or all the evidence you didn't bother to post) supports that Martin had any reason or justification to attack Zimmerman which is what evidence suggests happened. Why you believe that what you posted will "probably hurt the "z-Man" is curious indeed (of course, when you leave out complete sections of evidence and witness statements it becomes easier to support an opinion).

At 2:07 minutes into his call to the police, Zimmerman says, "he's running." At 2:37 minutes, Zimmerman tells the dispatcher, "He ran." The sound of an "open door" chime, a change in Zimmerman's voice and the sound of wind indicate that Zimmerman has left his vehicle, prompting the dispatcher to ask if Zimmerman is following Martin. When Zimmerman confirms that he is, the dispatcher says, "We don't need you to do that."[105] Zimmerman says, "Okay." Asked if he "want(s) to meet with the officer," Zimmerman says, "Yeah," and gives directions to where his vehicle is parked but is unable to provide an address. He also tells the dispatcher the numbers of his street address, and then at 3:35 adds, "Oh crap, I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is." The dispatcher asks him if he wants to meet the police at the mailboxes,[Note 3, 4th picture] and he at first agrees but then says, "Actually, could you have him call me, and I'll tell him where I'm at?" to which the dispatcher replies, "No problem."[106] Zimmerman appears to hang up at the 4:05 mark. The recording ends at the 4:11 mark, approximately 7:13:41 PM. According to state prosecutors and attorney Benjamin Crump, Martin was talking on his cellphone to his girlfriend around the time of the incident, which phone company records confirm.[131][132] She called Martin at 7:12 PM, although phone company records round down call times, so the actual call was between 7:12:00 and 7:12:59 PM.[133][134] She was interviewed by Crump who made a statement for her, as her parents requested her anonymity, and she gave a sworn interview recorded by a state prosecutor.[131][132] Martin's girlfriend said that he described a man as "crazy and creepy," who was on the phone watching him from a vehicle, before the man started following him.[132] The friend said that she told Martin to run to the townhouse where he was staying with his father and the father's girlfriend.[132] She said that Martin told her that he had lost the man and then noticed he was being pursued again.[131][132] She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?"[131][132] She said that she heard the sound of pushing,[131] and then heard Martin say what sounded like, "get off, get off," and the call ended.[132] She attempted to call him back immediately, but was unable to reach him. At approximately 7:09 PM, February 26, 2012, Zimmerman used his cell phone to call the non-emergency number of the Sanford Police Department[99] to report what he considered suspicious behavior by Martin. The call was recorded. "We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy," he tells the police dispatcher.[56] He describes Martin as "just walking around looking about" in the rain[100] and also says, "This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something." He further states that the person he is observing has his hand in his waistband, is holding something in his other hand, and is walking around slowly in the rain "looking at all the houses."[101] On the recording of the call, Zimmerman is heard commenting "these assholes, they always get away."[102][103][104] This will all probably hurt the "Z-Man"....

I dont know that there is a "winner" here. Just opiners. leroy

I guess that must mean I'm "winning" because there is a lot of that going in this direction.

We could just keep firing incumbents until they get the message. That would require folks to admit that Dems/Reps are a sham, so that'll never happen.

I've had some interest in this caliber for awhile. Since I have a Gen4 G23, I will probably just get a barrel (if one is available). From what little I've looked into it, I will probably tool up to reload it if I make the leap. I was always a fan of the .357 magnum back in my wheel gun days.

So, now we have Gary Johnson videos to look forward to.........and from Alex Jones' website, no less. Impressive.

I agree. What I don't agree with is that folks that happen to believe that Z is guilty are having personal comments thrown their way and that is somehow okay, however when they are called out on it we are suddenly no longer having rational discussion. You can't have I both ways. Or maybe you can. I've expressed my logic in other posts and even offered up my own prejudices only to have those posts knocked down and incite personal comments. Believing that Z is guilty doesn't make me stupid anymore than you folks that think he's innocent. We all have opinions, and just because you don't agree with mine folks have to resort to all the snide comments. That suggests to me we can't debate rationally and what folks want is the same few people agreeing that the other is a friggin genius and there is no room for opposing views. If that is what this forum is than I apologize for having a different opinion and won't participate anymore.

This is why the only private party transactions I conduct online are FTF.

No disrespect intended, but if it were up to me, lawyers would be ineligible.

Probably because so many TGOers act like they live in utopia, when in fact the crime rates in most Memphis communities are quite average for the state. Many on TGO act like Memphis is Somalia and quite frankly, for those of us who live here and spent our lives living in many other places, it's actually comical seeing all the fear-based posts. So much for the internet tough-guys, I guess.

+1 I agree. Start at the local level and then move your success to the state level and then use that success to push towards getting the national government back in line. JTM Sent from my iPhone

I agree. It has to start on the local level.

Oh Blessed Israel....Start build ya'll some more walls down south my friends. You're gonna need it!

We've got an '01 with 208k on it. Great vehicle. Buddy of mine has an '86 pickup with over 400k. Toyota trucks typically last.

I love my 4runner, itd take alot to get me to part with it

You're right, being emotional and sarcastic is a right reserved for a select few here. How out of line of me to point that out using sarcasm.

I'll never understand how some people are so irresponsible that they don't know where all their firearms are at all times. smh

Don't start sh!t with your mouth and end it with your pistol. Tough guys take note. If this would of happened in TN I assume the results would be similar.

I was very un-aware that bail had anything at all to do with how much money you have. I thought it more to do with the crime you commited and your past criminal history. Well, good luck "Z".....You are apparently a liar...as an "Honorable" Judge has "fixed your wagon"....and your wife is next!!! Dave (931)802-2138

About 9 or 10 years ago, my wife and I were dating and we'd been to see some live music in the old city. It was smoke-filled and I hate smoke so I really wanted some orange juice when we left to make my throat feel better. Probably around midnight on a Friday or Saturday night, I pulled into the Weigals in question to get some juice and when I got back to the car my, then GF, now Wife, asked me if I was crazy and asked me never to leave her in the car at that Weigels again. I told her she was paranoid. The next day on the news we saw there had been a fatal shooting at that Weigels. I still stop in there from time to time if I'm by myself. I wouldn't take my wife or kids there, even during the day. After practicing law for several years I am much more aware of all the, um, interesting transactions that go on all around us. I still wouldn't open carry to deter problems. I just don't like the attention. I'm convinced there are better ways to avoid looking an easy target without the attention of open carrying. Keep your head on a swivel, make eye contact, look like your there to get something done... Just don't carry yourself like you are the kind of person who's going to be intimidated or fall for a line of B.S.

Scott belongs in jail a lot more than Zimmerman IMHO.

That's exactly why the court should levy his bank account! That and to keep money from being moved around....

I think the Judge/Court should sieze Zimmerman's bank account until after the trial. Seems he is racking up quite a profit off of this case!

It all could be "Presumed", but someone, somehow initated a confrontation. We haven't heard Trayvon's side! Some kind of way "Z" got out of his truck for the purpose of seeing where Trayvon went. Followed him? Stalked him? Then who approached who? Did Trayvon approach Z for the purpose of finding out who was following him? Did Z approach Trayvon to confront him? Was Trayvon scared s******* of Z during this confrontation? Seems to me Zimmerman is the one in jail....why? If he acted in self defense I doubt he would be where he is today. We all seem to be ok with Zimmerman having an HCP, and stereotyped a teenage black kid wearing a hoodie walking through a neighborhood at night. I questioned it then, and I still question to this day (even after reading all eveidence in this matter) who the real aggressor was. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see when the "movie" comes out. But in my honest opinion, Z is kinda shady!

I'm not taking sides here, but "what if" Trayvon felt threatened by being followed by someone? I mean we have a seventeen year old kid walking along minding his business. He is followed by and then approached by Zimmerman. If Trayvon felt threatened and in danger of his own life and/or being being robbed, he had all rights in the world to beat the h*** out of his ACCOSTER, The kid had NO GUN on him, which give him all rights to use his fist. I would do the same if it were me! Follow me around , get out of your truck and approach me in a threatening manner and get similiar treatment! We have to look at both sides of this story! Dave

Hopefully this trial will be on the TV!

I think speed will always be king. The limiting factor these days is the pilot. I'm fascinated by the design of the SR-71, mostly because of the time in which it was done. They didn't have all the fancy tools we have today. That's probably why it so cool looking. The Valkyrie you mentioned is likely the XB-70, also a really cool plane. There's one on display at the USAF museum in Dayton OH. I highly recommend a visiting, it's fascinating.