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Why is it okay that you support Zimmerman, but those of us that think he committed a reckless act that led to the death of an innocent kid not okay? Why can’t we have an intelligent discussion about this trial without the personal innuendoes that those of us that don’t believe what he did was right are supporting gutless politicians, racists, or are in some way fearful of what will happen if he is acquitted? Of course I am an arm chair quarterback; what else could any of us be? We are human beings that see this situation from different perspectives and different back grounds. I’m not trying to argue with or belittle anyone, and I’m not attacking anyone because of their background. Am I judging George Zimmerman? Of course I am; that’s what we do here. And my judgment means exactly the same as everyone else’s here…. Nothing. Most all of us have been spouting off our opinions, it’s a hot topic; should we quit?

There have been two or three threads like this one recently (such as the red light camera one) and based on some comments from folks I suspect that if the government decided to use technology to look right through the walls of your home and see you doing your business on the throne that would be okay with those folks too...after all, you wouldn't be doing anything illegal. We are supposed to be a republic where liberty and freedom are two of the principles that define us as a nation but what's the point of using technology to protect our republic if, in the process, we lose our freedom and liberty? Maybe the next step is a miniature "black box" inserted in our bodies to record everything we do and say? It would probably be more effective in stopping crime and save money when compared to drones - when the black box detects us breaking a law, it can automatically summon the police to come and ticket and/or arrest us...we could do away with all criminal courts and just go straight to punishment since there wouldn't be any question that we were guilty of the offense.

It seems there is an assumption that accepting Islam means rejecting American ideals. It doesn't. Anyone who is curious can PM me and ask me about all the Kurds I worked with in Iraq that live in the Nashville area and have done so since the 90's. They went back to Iraq to use their language skills to serve their country at a critical time. Some didn't come back. They all loved Bush, hate Obama and never want to go back to the days of being oppressed by their government. All the while they were Muslim. Most recently I played a hand in getting another "evil" Muslim to the states who is enjoying freedom from oppression and violence, attends college and has a full time job. All the while he loves our country and still practices Islam; albeit, not to a "T". Maybe we should assume that all Muslims don't hate American ideals. For the American Muslims that do, maybe we can start making their feelings towards the government a crime so we can rid our country of them. Maybe we can call them "thought crimes"... perhaps round them up into camps until we figure out what to do with them. Yes, that sounds like the "American" thing to do.

My support of Zimmerman has nothing to do with the ethnicity of he or Trayvon. You seem to have information that others don't. You know for a fact that Trayvon did nothing?

If you didn't want it to run "10 pages" then it shouldve been locked or cleaned up? People keep telling me where to take my rifle so I figured I'd make it clear that it has been fixed once again.

I don't thin it's illegal but from now on, as well as looking for threats before exiting my truck I'm also going to be looking out for anyone wearing a hoodie and carrying Skittles 'cause if anything bad happens I'll apparently be guilty of something.

wd:____________ I gotta question: I'll grant that if everybody had good sense this would have never happened. I'll also grant that george could have been out of line callin the kid out for walkin back home. The problem ive got with this analysis which i lifted from your post: "...Everyone has tunnel vision here! I mean for God's sakes, this kid was minding his own business, walking home from the store...now he's dead by the actions of another! Those facts cannot be overlooked! ..." is that it presumes that the kid wuz mindin his own business and was attacked in some way. That simply doesnt seem to be the case (...based on the facts as we know them...). Asking a person what he is doing may be a bit rude (...in some cases...) but it doesnt amount to a physical assault (...my wife, my kid, and others ask me what im doin all the time...). My take on this (...which i realize is an "unofficial one, by the way...)is that the kid was offended by being called out and decided to put a whoppin on george and didnt quite get it done. The evidence (..that we know about...) points to that. That aint exactly "...minding his own business"... . The kid wuz bigger and tougher than george; and he knew it. It appears to me (...and i bet some other intellectually honest people too...) that george may have called him down; but the kid decided to give him a good whoopin for it. It simply didnt work out the way the kid believed it would; ...little ole man whupped for daring to call a tough guy down.... He almost got it done, and ole george found his pistol. I doubt ole george managed to black his own eyes and knock himself down in the wet grass and cut his head. While im at it; i dont think anyone here is "happy" or gloating that someone got killed over this incident. The truth of the matter is that none of this would have happened if everybody involved in it had have either minded their own business or acted like they were adults. There are lots of people watching this case and the firestorm surrounding it that are wondering what the real endgame is for it. I dont believe for a minute that it is "...Justice for Trayvon; or for Geroge Zimmerman, either..."; and i suspect that lots of other observers dont either. This whole thing smacks of post civil war reconstruction politics and punishment. This one has way too much heavyweight interest and propoganda swirling around it to just be an attempt by the state of florida at passing out justice for two private citizens. There is somethin a lot bigger than that goin on here. That something is big time politics; which, by the way, has no bearing whatsoever on justice. Most likely it is workin on "injustice" for someone (...most likely the citizens of florida...). leroy

Stopping traffic and transportation in NYC makes me think of the time my sewer backed up. All that poo and no where for it to go. I wonder if it'll look and smell the same there? Oh wait...

They deserve it. All is well.

Don't start sh!t with your mouth and end it with your pistol. Tough guys take note. If this would of happened in TN I assume the results would be similar.

Exactly, there are already 100s of flights a day over our cities with the same capability and there is no probem with that. The government and the people making decisions is the problem not the tools that they use. The government already has the technology to watch every part of your life should they decide to do so. All this does is give our law enforcement officials (most are honest folks just like us) a very valuable tool to catch bad guys and protect us. I am more concerned with guns in the hands of criminals since it is much more likely that someone will commit a crime with a gun than most of the conspiracy theories spouted in these threads about technology. Hmmm, maybe we should do something about this evil gun technology, ban it? regulate it? That way people won't kill each other anymore without the technology to do so.... If the government does go too far we have enough rednecks with guns (I count myself in that group) around the country to do something about it. Until Skynet comes online and Terminators walk the streets, I will embrace technology and promote oversight on the people using it.

If you are not doing anything wrong...why worry? We have junk in space that can read your car tags....I looked at some space photos a couple of years ago and can clearly see my truck and boat in my driveway. Why would you be surprised about drones? Live a clean life, don't grow pot in your yard....no worries! They're not violating my 4th amendment rights...I've nothing to hide! Dave

Hillary Clinton's impersonation of Monica Lewinsky.

For all those who said they were interested, I talked to my dad tonight about doing a knife making class. We will be doing it July 14th, 2012. That should give everyone plenty of time to clear their schedule for the event. Please note, blacksmithing in the middle of summer it is gonna be hot so make sure to drink plenty of fluids. We will be making a complete bowie/camp knife, but to do so we need to start early. A lot of the knife making process is in the final tempering of the edge, which requires it to cool to room temp. to do correctly, which can take a couple of hours, but should really be overnight. For the sake of the class, we will do the best we can with the time we have. Please post up if your coming, we have a small shop, but if several want to make the trip, we will be as accommodating as possible for everyone. Also please post if you want to just observe, or if your willing to help swing the hammer and hold the steel. We will be meeting at the Food City in Oliver Springs for the drive to my parents place, which is around 20 min away in the backwoods. If needed or wanted I'll be opening my home to those with a long drive so that we can start early saturday morning, without you guys having to drive 3 hours in the very early morning. I have an extra bed, 2 couches and at least one air mattress, plus plenty of space if you have your own air mattress. The list is a recommendation, not a set of rules. Please understand we are not a professional shop, just interested amateurs with a large interest, and a home shop. The list is recommended, but you are responsible for your own safety, so wear what you want. If you wish to stay with my friday night, please pm for my address and let me know around what time you plan to arrive friday night. We will meet at the Hardees in Oliver Springs, eat breakfast there, and then head to the shop. Meeting time is 7:30 am, and meeting address will be 528 East Tri County Boulevard Oliver Springs, TN 37840. My contact info for any questions. PM me here Text me at 850-776-8205 I dont answer strange numbers alot, so text is best Email me at spots.duncan@gmail.com List of things to bring/wear - Safety glasses - Long sleeves - Long pants - Boots, or leather shoes - Bag lunch and supper (No food on site, we will eat breakfast in Oliver Springs) - Cash for breakfast Also, there is another thing to discuss. We have two options on the knife. We can make it, and my old man can keep it, OR at the beginning of the day, we can put everyones name into a bowl that will be helping with the project. After it is finished, we draw names, and whoever has their name drawn takes the knife home with them. Please vote on what you want. Also please understand we are backwoods blacksmiths, our focus is more on useful and function, than good looks. We are trying to give everyone a basis on starting equipment and skills. Below are pictures of several small one day knives we have made for fun. Nice stuff is very possible with more time.

Here is my gripe. Recently I have typed "I will take it" in response to two guns I have seen online. I rarely if ever do that. ON both occasions the seller, and rightly so, "demands" postal money order in hand prior to shipment. In both cases I was prompt (next day). IN both cases the sellers couldn't get their guns to the FFL within the same week. In one case the FFL forgot to ship for 3 days. I upheld my end but the other two were slackards, regardless of the excuses. My advice is if you are selling you need to have the same sense of urgency as you want the buyer to have.

I have been meaning to make a version of this since I first saw them on YouTube vids a year or two back: Well, yesterday evening I had a round tuit and decided to use it up and make a couple of them. Mine are slightly different from some others I have seen - mostly because the Home Depot that is on my way home from work didn't have threaded plugs for one inch PVC pipe so I ended up using a cap on both ends instead of just one end. As mentioned, I used 1 inch PVC pipe but there were several diameters available in the display. The pre-cut sections of PVC came in lengths that were just a tad over two feet long. As the finished product really only needed to be about half that length, I decided to go ahead and make two of them. I completed one in its entirety and got the main body of the second one assembled. After taking the hacksaw to the PVC pipe and cutting it into two sections, I drilled through both sides of the pipe (instead of through the end of the cap) and used some of the nylon cord I have onhand to make a lanyard. I just ran each end of the cord through one of the holes then tied a knot in each end so that the cord couldn't come back out through the holes. My idea was that, by doing it this way, the final product could be more or less water tight. Along those lines, I drilled the holes close enough to the end of the pipe that the cap would cover them when in place. For mine, just for grins, I decided to paint them using some flat green spray paint. I had the paint onhand because I had intended to use it to paint sections of the plastic stock on my 'Planet of the Apes' style Hi Point 995. I ended up trading that 995 for one of the newer 'TS' models, meaning the paint could be used for something else. I only used a thin coat and the paint dried literally in seconds. I'm not sure I've ever seen paint that dried so fast. At that point, I cut some three inch sections from a bicycle innertube (cheapest one that Walmart had) and, after some grunting, tugging, stretching and a liberal amount of cussing, I managed to stretch the sections of innertube over the ends of the pipe sections. I passed the lanyards through the section of tube that went on their end of the pipe before stretching it on. On each end, I left a little excess tube hanging off of the end of the pipe and turned it back/down to leave the very end of the pipe uncovered. I then put the cap on and pulled the part that I had turned down back up to cover the sides of the cap. As this covers the 'seam' between the pipe and the end cap, I figure it should make it water tight. Once the end caps are in place, it is actually pretty easy to roll the end of the piece of tube back to allow the cap to be removed and then roll it back into place once the cap is back on (two of the pics below will show the tube rolled back.) To finish up the main construct, I wrapped 25 yards of Zebco 10lb test fishing line (again, the cheapest Walmart had) around the shaft of the kit body. I decided on 10lb test because I think it should do well on most anything I am likely to catch with this rig, from bluegill to catfish. The first end of the line was tied off around the shaft then I stashed that knot under the lanyard end section of inner tube. Once the line was all rolled onto the shaft, I put a sinker on and tied on a hook (#6 bait holder.) I stashed the hook under the proximal end of the tube section on the lanyard end of the shaft - that makes a superb hook keeper. To finish up that part, I put a velcro strap I had onhand around the line 'spool' to help keep the line in place. Now it was time to start putting some gear inside the kit. That is really the fun part. I recently bought a few packages of foam earplugs at The Dollar Tree. With each package, my dollar got me three or four pairs of earplugs plus a little, clear plastic tube container to keep them in. I looked at those tube containers and thought they would be perfect for holding hooks, etc. Once I trimmed a couple of tabs (opening tab and another tab intended to allow a string to be attached to the tube) off of the lid and trimmed the plastic hinge off of the lid and the tube body, the tube would easily slip right down inside the fishing kit. Awesome! In that tube, I put an assortment of sinkers and hooks along with some small snap swivels. You can see the contents in the first pic below. I also decided that I needed a stringer but a standard one would probably be too bulky. I went back to my old standby nylon cord and cut off a five foot section. Now I needed a 'spike' for one end and a 'ring' for another. A wire coat hanger valiantly sacrificed itself to provide those things and a few minutes with a set of wire pliers had them ready. It ain't pretty but it should work. For extra line, just in case, I rolled off another 25 yards (roughly) and wrapped it in some blue electrician's tape. That goes in the very bottom of the kit as I shouldn't need it any time soon. I was able to fit three small floats in the kit. I decided to use weighted floats since I will be 'casting' by hand and think the extra weight will help me throw the line further. I am generally not a huge fan of Styrofoam floats such as these but in this case I figured they were compact and would be much more durable than plastic floats or the balsa wood stick floats I normally prefer. Finally, I cut another three inch section of innertube, glued one side of it (on the inside) and 'clamped' that side with some plastic clips until the glue dried in order to make the tube tighter. Why do this? Well, I started thinking that 10lb test mono-filament line (or nearly any monofilament fishing line, really) can cut the $&%^ out of a finger. Being that I would be 'reeling' the line in by hand, I decided that I might want a way to protect the finger that will be taking the brunt of the pressure - especially if I hook into a bass, catfish or the like. I glued the tube section partially closed so that it will be tight enough to stay on my finger, thereby protecting it from getting sliced open by the fishing line. Anyhow, this shows the stuff that I put into the kit: This is how things look when they are all packed up and ready to stash in the kit: And this is how the kit looks with everything inside and the end cap in place:

I spent a lot of time at the John F Kennedy Special Warfare Center studying politics, both national and international. I wouldn't trust Romney or Obama to ensure the near or long term security of my wife, children or dog. These guys are politicians run by political machines, both harnessed and run by big money. Take a look at Pelosi or Boehner. They both look like refugees from some Caribbean vacation and they both have no minds of their own, just parrotting what drivel that either wing of the party tells them to say. They probably didn't start out that way....but.... Forget the parties and concentrate on picking really good smart people for city, county and state politics. People who appeal to your way of thinking or who you think will stand some chance of running things the way you would like to see them run. The days of folks wanting to do the right thing in national politics has long been overtaken by personal greed, aggrandizement or strategic corporate buffoonery.

North of the Mason/Dixon.....nope I don't care.

You're right, being emotional and sarcastic is a right reserved for a select few here. How out of line of me to point that out using sarcasm.

You too, obviously.

Maybe he'll smooth everything over with the locals by bringing in some free 24oz Cokes

Because apparently if you have an opinion that Zimmerman is guilty you are somehow violating some law about innocent until proven guilty. Never mind that folks here believe that Obama and Holder are guilty of crimes.... I don't see how you can have that opinion if they haven't been convicted or even charged while at the same time believing folks can't have the opinion that Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter. Or we could just play the passive aggressive game and say that you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is. Or maybe suggest that since you have such an opinion you are a mindless sheeple that has fallen for Al and Jesse. Clearly you aren't capable of developing your own opinion if you can't see how superior mine is, right?

I agree, Grafs & Sons are top notch. They don't always have as wide a selection as Midway, but they definitely offer quality products and great service.

The very first day her donation site became active I donated to her...it was not a tiny amount but certainly not a major contribution either...I was absolutely STUNNED when she called me personally that evening to thank me. I've donated to a lot of candidates over the years and I've made bigger $$$ contributions to those candidates (local, state and national) than I made to Courtney; not a single campaign staff person, let alone the candidate, has ever called me to thank me. If she can maintain that kind of humble and thankful attitude she will serve Tennessee very well indeed. I'll be making another contribution soon too!

Some here are willing to give up their rights and freedoms, some here are not. I suggest that those who believe that everything is cool and that there is nothing to worry about until "When one of the drones is used to violate someone’s right to privacy; post the story here" happens, perhaps they ought to form their own country where they can allow that sort of stuff to happen and leave the rest of us alone. Waiting until that happens isn't how you handle the problem. When it actually happens, that's when it's too late to do anything about it. Kinda like when they already took your guns, promised you a hot shower and some food, then you find out it's not like they said, but you're already standing in the gas chamber. Too late to protest at that point.

Food control - brought to you the same liberals who want to control every part of your life.

It's okay, they're just New Yorkers...

Again with the getting out of his truck stuff. I guess it's now illegal to get out of your truck.

I think some are missing the point. Technology isn’t the issue; how it is used and who uses it IS the issue – whether it’s a fixed wing aircraft, a drone, 007 in a jetpack or Starfleet security personnel in anti-gravity boots is immaterial. If law enforcement has just cause to search me or my property (home, vehicle, land, whatever) then they should go to a judge, convince him/her that they have a valid reason and get a warrant that specifies what they are allowed to search for, where they are allowed to search and how they are allowed to search for it…if they get that then bring it on - they should be able to use whatever technology they have available so long as it falls within the warrant. If they don’t have that just cause/don't have a warrant then they have no damn business “searching†anything with any technology. The mention of “in plain sight†is curious. It generally means that LEO can, without a warrant, seize and use as evidence any item seen in plain view during a legal search or you are in custody when the officer has probable cause to believe that the item is evidence of a crime; we don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding unconcealed items in those cases. I’m not so sure that an item that is “evidence of a crime†seen from a drone (or any other device) with the ability to “see†much more than the human eye would be capable of and flying indiscriminately over private property would come under the “plain sight ruleâ€.

On June 14th, 237 years ago, the leaders of this Nation established the Continential Army.

I'll never understand how some people are so irresponsible that they don't know where all their firearms are at all times. smh

Because after I looked at all available options for what I was needing, I choose the 26 for size and reliability. With the extension, the height is still less than the 19 by 1/2" and 3/4" in barrel length at a confrontation isn't going to make any difference, training does. I could have gone with another manufacture for $200-$300 less and gotten a gut gun but I don't invest in guns that will go into the trash after 200 rounds. I made a great choice on my firearm as well as anyone else that buy's what they feel fits them.

Sounds more like "the State" is just hassling otherwise law abiding citizens for no other reason than just because they can.

In the state of Florida, as well as almost anywhere else, he can be found NOT GUILTY of 2nd Degree murder, and still be judged against in civil court for damages for wrongful death. It happens all the time. If you want my personal take on this? Z needs to stay locked up! I think too many people sided with Z because he has an HCP!!! What if it were the other way around? What if Z was black and Martin was white...what would your take be then? I'm not making this a race issue, but too many of ya'll think "Z" is a cool breeze for killing this kid. What if Trayvon had cracked open Z's head like a walnut, killed him, then told the cops he was in fear of his life. Would ya'll still hold your opinions as you do now, that "Z" is the victim here? Everyone has tunnel vision here! I mean for God's sakes, this kid was minding his own business, walking home from the store...now he's dead by the actions of another! Those facts cannot be overlooked!

I've always been against credit checks for employment. So many good people run into hard times and they base an employment decision from something that may have happened years ago and is completely irrelevant now. Most places say that good credit shows responsibility and that part is understandable, but they need to consider the entire story and not just what is printed on that report.

Thanks but no thanks! I don't have a death wish.

There's several really good guys here. Glad to know some of them, even if I ain't never seen some of 'em in person.

By all means, embrace the surveillant society! If you're doing nothing wrong...or what might be interpreted as wrong...what's the worry? Smile at the camera pointed at your face. You'll want to look your best for the archives.

Makes me wanna grab them all by the hair, snatch their head back and pour a pint of redeye gravy down their throat. Eat healthy if you like, I'm proud of you. LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE ALONE. It's the whole country's BIGGEST problem. It ain't the economy or terror. No one can mind their own dang business. Their nothing but attention whores.

Must be a fake news story or someone got the facts wrong. We all know a 380 can't even hurt you when shot directly, much less from a riccochet. For once, I do not blame the alcohol here. I think that in this case, they could have done the same thing sober: it is a lack of understanding about what will and what will not be dangerous to shoot at and at what ranges. I highly doubt that the fellow would have known, if totally sober, that such a target is going to bounce the bullet back.

Damn good point. One of the two greatest shameful parts of American history. - OS

i have never got even close to fair offer from a Gun store so i usually just use TGO or GOC or another Forum

Everything is Quid pro quo now. Police can shoot citizens, citizens can shoot police. Maybe both had better be a little more cautious in what they do then. Making sure you're raiding the correct house could save a lot of lives, including your own.

Do you not agree that Zimmerman screwed up when he got out of his truck and started chasing this kid, saying “They always get away� Do you agree that that was more than stopping him on the street and asking what he was doing? Do you think it’s possible that Martin was scared crapless? Do you think that it’s possible he saw the gun? Do you think it’s possible he was simply defending himself in the only way he had available to him? I don’t think the state will get a conviction on murder charges, what he did was manslaughter, but I don’t know if they will have that option available to them. He acted in a reckless manner with willful disregard for the safety of others. How many jurors will be used in the Zimmerman case? It is my understanding that because it is not a capital case it will be six? Six might reach a verdict, but I don’t see how as polarized as the two sides of this case are twelve jurors being able to reach a verdict. But who knows…. When they get to see all the evidence and listen to the witnesses in person, they may be able to reach a decision in an hour.

Nope, I wasn’t there anymore than anyone else. Like everyone else I have made decisions based on what I have read in media accounts that were biased both ways. I think Zimmerman deserves a fair trial, I don’t agree that the state revoked his bail, I think the state is responsible for his safety while in custody, and I am appalled that both the state and the Feds refused to act when outright criminal threats were made against his life. However… the cops wanted to arrest him when they first had him, they ask for an arrest warrant and it was refused by the DA. The Governor has seen fit to sit that DA in the corner and call one in that can handle the case. A crime was committed and the victim and his family deserve a trial. I know very well we don’t have a justice system, but I hold out hope that justice is served in this case. I know my opinion on this case is not popular on this forum, but I can’t help from join in on the discussion. I am simply discussing the case as I see it; I respect the opinions of others and hope no one takes my comments as a personal attack, they certainly are not meant that way.

I'd love to, but furnaces, hot july days, and fat guys don't mix. Sign me up for one in February, LOL.

This, but only briefly. The aerodynamic heating caused by the near hypersonic velocity would destroy the bullet almost immediately. Faster than a speeding bullet.

The bullet will exit the bore at the muzzle velocity. Then the airplane's velocity will be added to that velocity. Now if you were shooting out the back of the plane the bullet would pretty much stand still upon exit providing both velocities were the same. Dolomite

The bullet will travel 2700 FPS from its frame of reference (e.g. the plane) so the bullet will behave as if it was shot on the ground. Relative to the ground, the bullet will be traveling at 5400 FPS. Better question, where do I find one of these Mach 2.5 planes?

Buy wwb to practice with. Buy a couple of boxes of the defensive round of your choice. Shoot one box of the self defense rounds to check function and POI vs. POA. Move on with life. Don't overthink this.