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That’s all I have said is that I want to see a trial. I don’t have any ax to grind with anyone involved in this case, I don’t have a problem with shooting criminals, I carry a gun and I think everyone has the right to do so (although the state disagrees with me on that). I have said the facts in this case that are not in dispute justify a trial. Some here won’t even acknowledge the facts that we know. Let’s throw another Latin term out there; Prima Facie. “At first look†or “on its faceâ€. That is how I would present the case to the Grand Jury. The case needs to be answered in a trial. 1. Trayvon Martin was in a place he had a lawful right to be. 2. There is no evidence he had committed or was involved in any illegal activity prior to his encounter with Zimmerman. 3. His peaceful journey was interrupted by someone that had no legal authority to stop or detain him. 4. As a result of that interruption he is dead. Now of course that doesn’t mean an automatic conviction. Zimmerman has a right to argue that at some point his role changed from perp to victim. Only two people know when and if that occurred; one is dead. A jury of Zimmerman’s peers should make that decision after having all the evidence presented to them by professionals; not the media. We don’t know the details of what happened at the point when Zimmerman claims he became the victim. Did he grab Trayvon? Did he hit him? Did Treyvon hear the racial slur? What else did he say to Trayvon? Was Trayvon scared and fearing for his safety? Would a reasonable person believe Zimmerman was in fear of death or great bodily harm? What does the autopsy report show? What will a jury conclude from watching the video of Zimmerman’s interview? Why did the investigators ask the SA to charge Zimmerman, and why did they not act? I heard the audio of the 911 call. I also heard it enhanced to clearly hear the racial slur. Will the jury get to hear it? Who knows? But it is important for a couple of reasons. Did Trayvon hear it, and if so what impact did it have on him? I remember one of the forum members saying that he was walking through a parking lot someone yelled “Hey you old white MF†(or something like that). Does that justify the use of deadly force? No, but it would be critical to show both his and the perps state of mind if something had happened. It’s also important because if the state fails to take this guy to trial or he is acquitted; it opens the door for the Feds top step in on a civil rights case. Do I agree with double jeopardy? No I don’t, and that is what that is. But most folks were okay with it when California acquitted the cops in the Rodney King beating and the Feds stepped in and sent them to jail on civil rights violations. I also find it hard to believe that this young man could hold Zimmerman’s head and beat it into the ground without Zimmerman being able to break his hold. I’m 57 years old, over weight and out of shape, but I don’t think from what I have seen of the pictures of Trayvon I could not have broken his hold and got him off me. I guess if my hands were busy trying to get a gun instead of fighting back he may have been able to. Zimmerman’s what 28? And appears to be bigger than Trayvon. Does that not raise a question with anyone else? Am I trying the case here? Certainly I am; we all are. That’s what we do. This is an internet forum and we arm chair quarterback everything that is posted. I don’t see anything wrong with that as long as it remains civil. I can assure everyone that I have no dog in this fight or some hidden agenda. It’s a hot case right now, and it’s an interesting thread.

Granted. We also lost the requirement of any escalation of force. We go right from a fist fight to a gun. I don’t think an innocent victim should have that requirement, but if you are going to go out trolling the neighborhood and engaging perceived bad guys, you should have some type of less lethal device just like the cops do.

Am I the only one that understands why Zimmerman may have wanted to get a look at the guy? He has been called an aggressor a million times in this thread. When i think aggressor, I think physical attack. There's nothing wrong with neighborhood watch. So... you're watching the neighborhood, a suspicious character shows up, and you call the cops. They show up 30 minutes later, but the suspicious character has vanished. Your description is a black guy in a hoodie. This happens repeatedly, with the property loss that goes along with it. I don't support racist actions, and I certainly don't support murder. I DO understand why Zimmerman may have wanted to get face-to-face with the guy without it being racially motivated. I have been sucker punched before, and realize that it takes a couple of seconds to regain your bearings if it's done right. You can keep somebody in that state if you keep punching. Not saying he is, but Zimmerman could be totally innocent. Since the prosecutor is sitting on all the evidence, I don't think we'll know until the trial. The medical on both guys is key. I'm betting that doesn't get leaked.

Here is another one you learn when you are young with the first shotgun. leaning your back and shoulder against a tree to try and "lessen" the recoil of a hard kicking shotgun does not work. At. All.

There is nothing personal about this or anything in my background that would cause me to want to see this go to trial any more than any other homicide. Is there something in your back ground that would make you think its okay to kill a kid that was defending himself? You took he time to type out an intelligent response. I’ve tried not to respond to the pin head’s that can’t put more than a couple of sentences together that are simply name calling or launching personal attacks because someone doesn’t buy their version of events. Is this where this discussion is going? I’m appalled at the number of people here that think this is okay. And I’m amazed at the number of people that are remaining silent. Maybe this thread has just run its course and no one wants to discuss it anymore….

Tumble lube. Sizing is not necessary if it fits the throat.

I content that you have a responsibility to not be in that situation. I content that Zimmerman was interfering with Treyvon Martins rights and therefore his self-defense claim is without merit. Zimmerman did not seek medical attention; therefore the back of his head was not bashed in. This old BS of “you can die from being in a fight†is ridiculous. Sure it can happen, I could also win PowerBall but it’s very unlikely. If you feel the need to kill someone that is attacking you in a situation you created; that’s fine. But I think it needs to be clear that unless you are an innocent victim (you come before the court with clean hands) a jury will be deciding your fate.

Just burn a pile of pallets out front; they'll assume you've already been visited. - OS

.22 is probably the most versatile cartridge there is. .22 is perfect. And if you don't ever go camping or hiking then its not for you.

One glaring assumption, and one crucial step omitted. The assumption is that asking someone what they are doing is tantamount to assault The omission is what happened between 3 and 4. All physical evidence, witness statements and police reports are consistent with step 3.5 being Martin physically assaulting Zimmerman. With this as an example, I could go down to the credit union and make a withdrawal, and get shot dead for it. We'll just assume I have an account there, and omit the part where I'm using a gun instead of a withdrawal slip. Hey, this is a fun game. Anybody else want to play?

if a relative intended for me to have a firearm after their passing I would just bring the gun home and not worry about it. it is not like I am going to use it for nefarious reasons, and not like it is being sought for having been used in a crime. don't over think it.

Korn Likker....drink it, dress wounds, sterilize knives, start fires....the list goes on and on....

Whoops, sorry, wrong thread. Thought you were referring to POTUS

Perhaps. However, in their arrogance, they would think they can control the mob. They are wrong. That's why they are called mobs.

damn Dave. I never liked your posts but up until now you've always been semi rational. Where the heck did you come up with the parts in bold? Have you not bothered to read any of the news articles that actually have witness testimony? You are convinced Zimmerman is a murderer despite the facts that have been released. I said it earlier on, maybe Zimmerman is guilty, maybe he isn't. Can't we at least lets the courts decide before foregoing all the facts and deciding he's a murderer. Man, I hope you never get accused of a crime.......(again).

Perfect place for the 1911. If you don't have one, good reason to buy another gun. If you are going with another person, would keep it simple and carry a .22, like a Ruger Single-Six....good human deterent, and if you encounter a bear, shoot your buddy in the leg so you can be sure to out run him......

Yeah, and d-nile isn't just a river in Egypt. We know Martin is dead and that's the only part of that sentence that is an actual "fact". Wow..."fact" hugh? Really? Please cite your references for these facts; especially your wild-sassed assertion that I ever said anything like the above garbage you attributed to me. Yes, Martin had no duty to retreat. beyond that, other than your opinion, there is no basis to assume that Martin is the victim and Zimmerman the aggressor even though that's how you want to present it. Wow...not only do you know everything that happened you even know what Zimmerman was even thinking...amazing.As I said before, It must be a real comfort to be so damn certain of something that you weren't there to observe. It must also have been a real time-saver, you know, when you were a cop...you probably never had to actually go the scene of a crime 'cause you probably just already "knew" all that needed to be known. I haven't spun anything. Where in this thread have I claimed to know what happened? If you want to see someone who claims to know what happened (even though he wasn't there) look in a mirror.The only thing I try to identify with are facts or in the case of this incident, quite a lack of them (your assertions to the contrary notwithstanding). Yep...thanks to two groups that are equally deserving of scorn and dismissal; the racists who want the "White Hispanic" dead regardless of ANY facts, and the closed minded who has convicted Zimmerman based on assumptions and assertions they try to pass off as "fact".

That is very telling, people tend to be conservative when distracted with such things as work. And in reading that I guess liberals must have more free time for their liberal views, ie not distracted by such things as work. Dolomite

If you choose to go with a pistol in the caliber's indicated then I suggest a Taurus PLY 22, Keltec P32 or a Ruger LCP. Should you instead choose to go with a revolver then I suggest the NAA 22, Ruger LCR 22, Ruger LCR 38 Special or the S&W 442. S&W does offer a J Frame revolver in the 32 H&R Magnum or 327 Federal but I can't recall the model number's. The only other recommendation I have is something graycrait has discussed here, with a pocket sized pistol/revolver ensure that it is one you can shoot well enough to keep all round's centered with one hand at very close range. I practice at 7, 5 and 3 yard distance's with my LCP but can do required qualifacation's with it at greater distance's. I've not encountered any other trained shooter who couldn't do the same.

I looked it up, Zimmerman is a JEWISH/GERMAN surname. So now the media can refer to him as a WHITE JEW hispanic. There's one thing Jessie and the Panthers hate more than whitey, that's Jews.

from your experience as a police officer you ought to know that "arrest first and let the DA sort it out" is often the solution officers in the field take. i am not the least bit suprised by their request.

I know one thing for certain, I hope that Zimmerman's story is proven correct and he is cleared of any wrong doing. If for no other reason than Dave has to admit he was wrong. It would be a first.

Wow.... "dirtbag"???.... Trayvon walking along, minding his own business???..... I'm pretty sure those are assumptions on your behalf and NOT even close to facts.... You are right about one thing- you shouldn't be concerned with a trial because you've already convicted Zimmerman and sentenced him to the death penalty ("He'll live in fear the rest of his life").

You should try driving in Memphis sometime... Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

I missed this post earlier apparently. This is good advice. However, I had good luck with a 2x4 when I decided 5 dogs on 1 cat wasn't a fair fight. Yes I was young and stupid, as I owned none of the animals involved. Wound up with a $6 million dollar cat though. Seriously, thank the gods the vet cut me some serious slack on the bill. And that, my son, is why we can't have nice things. Daddy talks like a hard-ass, then saves a stray cat. Just remember when you drive out to the country to ride your bike, you are the guest and my dog lives here. I catch the a-hole who pepper-sprayed my dog for barking, and I will only use harsh language as anything else would be illegal. FTR, a neighbor saw it happen, and my dog (a German Shepherd) was not attacking, was standing still and barking and this a-hole walked up and sprayed her. Speaking of vet bills......not all dogs react well to that.

OK. Now, who killed the damn horse, and was he black or white hispanic???

Just read an update. Zimmerman (elected as neighborhood watch captain) lost sight of Martin because Martin was walking quite slowly on a pathway between the town houses instead of on the well lighted sidewalks in front of the houses. Martin apparently hides in some bushes. Zimmerman gets out of his SUV to look for Martin, fails to find him, and is returning to his SUV when Martin comes up behind him. Martins GF hears Martin ask Zimmerman "Why are you following me?". She hears Zimmerman ask "What are you doing around here?". The next sound is apparently Martin responding to the question by punching Zimmerman. Zimmerman falls partially onto the concrete sidewalk. Martin sits on him and starts banging his head into the concrete. Multiple witnesses now state that Martin initiated use of force and that Zimmerman was getting his head smashed in - and calling for help - before he shot. Really looking for trouble to take a beating before you shoot a guy that assaults you, huh? My training in use of force was somewhat different than others have posted here. Doesn't matter. Zimmerman isn't a cop - so he doesn't get the respect a cop would get.

Zimmerman's "victim" may well have been the aggressor. Zimmerman's "victim" may well have been intent on a lot more than an "azz whipping" as you so colorfully put it. Zimmerman may well have been 100% justified to do exactly what he did and is alive today only because he did it. Of course, if one has already made up his mind about who was the victim and that it was only an "azz whipping" then none of the above matters. It must be comforting to be so damn certain of something that you weren't there to observe.

I have drawn some conclusions about this case. I've tried to read everything, AND consider the sources. We SHOULD be talking about this. There are little snippets of valuable information that one of us might need some day. All self defense shootings are gnarly, some more than others.

Yep, I agree fully. Does this mean that Barack Obama is a "White Negro"?

We don't even need Dems in TN legislature, most of our Republicans stand as fine liberal examples. - OS

The Springfield EMP is the only 1911 I wont ever sell and I have owned a ton of 1911's from Rock Island Armory to Nighthawk and pretty much everything in between didnt like any of them,all of that being said I decided to try the Springfield EMP in 9mm and this gun is AWESOME!!! It is EXTREMELY accurate and controllable,perfect size for carry,ammo is cheap compared to 45acp and dont let the small size fool you I decided to try my luck against a 24x18 target at 86 yards and put almost half the mag on target which suprised the hell out of me.

Yeah but if me and you starred in a zombie flick, where would the drama and suspense be? I mean, what's entertaining about two rednecks sitting on the roof with a few thousand rounds and a half dozen rifles? Coleman cooler, a loaf of fresh bread baked in a dutch oven earlier that morning to make sandwiches out of that thin sliced deer we smoked two days ago and a twelve pack of beer chilling in a Zeer. Solar powered iPod playing the Zepplin box set. A few hours later we pack up and move to the next location. ....yes, I've thought about it many a time.

Based on the images shown after Shane died the first time and before he started walking around, I figure next season the aliens that seeded Earth with the zombie virus will come back to take all the undead to their home planet as soldiers. That will leave Rick and Laurie as the new Adam and Eve. But, I could be wrong.

But Shane will survive at the cost of others. And to me, thats a problem. He murdered Otis in cold blood. I have no problem with someone being a survivor. I do have a problem with them being a survivor by becoming a murderer. There are other ways to survive. This for example.

Really?? I thought tonight was pretty good. Now, I can stand Shane for his over aggressive macho crap, Dale was the polar opposite. A damn hippie with a rifle. Always wanting to talk & get all feely...nobody wants that tree hugger crap. We have MORE reassurances that Glenn and Maggie will bind themselves together. That's cool. Carl? He needs a trip to the wood shed. BAD. He steals a gun, goes roaming off to where I am SURE mom & dad would say is out of bounds. Then, goofs around and DROPS the gun, doesn't kill the walker that inevitably takes out Dale. Yessir, that little boy ought to have to sleep on his belly for the night. AND, to beat all he's gravitating toward Shane's point of view. Yet another reason Shane needs to go, and take Andrea too.