Leaderboard

Forced to sit in the back of a police car because he was legally transporting firearms from the range? That's akin to being handcuffed, and the officer better have a damn good reason to do that.

I was hit while driving the wife's car a few years ago. I called the police, I called work, then I called my wife. My first words were "How bad did you want a new car?" It took a while, but she got over it. As for the hit and run... Several years ago I was living in Indianapolis, several friends and I attended a Colts game. As we were leaving, a truck that was parked near us backed out and hit a car, the driver pulled back forward and attempted to drive off. That was when nearly twenty people, myself included, swarmed his truck and forced him to wait for the owner of the car to arrive. It helped to restore faith in humanity, because it was a nearly instantaneous action, no one stood there mouth agape wondering what to do, the crowd moved en mass to stop him from fleeing the scene.

Was it black guy around 40 years old who claims his car is sitting down the block with a flat tire? He hit me up for $12 for fix-a-flat at the Walgreens across the street. For some reason I'll never understand I gave him a few bucks. A few months after that he approached me at the Pet Smart near West Town. He started to give me the exact same story. I reminded him that he had given me the same story a few months before that. He apparently makes his rounds through Knoxville scamming people. What a P.O.S.

Not that I have any first hand experience in the matter, but unless you're carrying a centerfire rifle type handgun, the odds of most any COM handgun round exiting with enough velocity to hurt someone else seems quite low indeed. And of course, you're going to hit COM, right? But seriously, if you're using something that is proven likely to do so, you might want to reconsider caliber or bullet type, since if your projectile ain't staying with the purp then it's not expending all of its energy on him either. Just one way to look at it perhaps. Another is, you can only control one thing at a time -- and if becomes a reasonable likelihood of life or death you pretty much need to deal with that first or the rest becomes suddenly quite non sequitur, eh? - OS

Cruel Hand Luke's excellent post prompted me to try and find more comparison information. Being that one could spend hours/days/weeks/years trying to compile and compare various data points, I decided to go the simpler route and let the ammo companies give me enough basic info to make the comparison to my satisfaction. As such, I looked at the energy numbers for Federal HydraShok ammo (from the Federal site) and a few, different loadings of Winchester ammo (mostly PDX1 with others thrown in the mix here and there, from the Winchester site.) Of course, I have no way of knowing what barrel lengths, etc. were used for testing the various calibers but would think that the lengths would be similar across the various calibers. I looked at their numbers for .380, .38 Special, .38 Special +P, 9mm Luger, 9mm Luger +P (where available - I didn't see a listing for 9mm +P HydraShok), .40 and .45 ACP. Since the discussion here seems to be focused mostly on 9mm vs .40 vs .45 ACP, I will only post numbers for those. The numbers I will post are the 'at the muzzle' energy (foot pounds) numbers from each company's site. First the Federal HydraShok numbers: 9mm Luger HydraShok 124 grain - 345 .40 HydraShok 165 grain - 352 .45 ACP HydraShok 230 grain- 414 I really don't see that much difference between the three - especially when considering: .357 Magnum HydraShok 130 grain - 574 .44 Remington Magnum HydraShok 240 grain - 780 Now for the Winchester numbers: 9mm Luger Winchester USA 115 grain JHP - 383 9mm Luger Silvertip 115 grain JHP - 383 9mm Luger +P PDX1 124 grain JHP - 396 .40 PDX1 165 grain JHP - 476 .45 ACP PDX1 230 grain JHP - 432 Interestingly, the PDX1 number posted doesn't reflect as big a 'jump' regarding .357: .357 Magnum PDX1 125 grain JHP - 487 The numbers both companies post for premium, self defense ammo - along with the following, oft posted (and reposted) pic convince me that the biggest 'real world' difference between 9mm Luger, .40 and .45 ACP is that 9mm is cheaper to shoot. I have certainly seen nothing to convince me that .40 is really markedly superior to 9mm and remain convinced that the biggest reason .40 came about was because a couple of perps named Matix and Platt were determined and tough and the FBI agents on the scene might not have gotten the best shot placement in all instances (which is understandable.) Had the agents in the Miami shootout who were armed with 9mm had .40, instead, with ammo similar to what they were using then I don't think it would have made a bit of difference.

This whole precious metals in a SHTF or survival situation has always confused me. If it really is TEOTWAWKI, Gold is not going to be useful to me. I actually think Beans or seeds will be worth their weight in Gold. But gold won't be? Maybe

I was pulling for the Titans. Now, I don't care.

It is similar to previous Executive Orders but one of the disturbing modifications are addition of the words "in peacetime."

One good place to start comparisons might be with the info from the North American Arms website. They make mini revolvers chambered for .22LR, some chambered for .22 WMR (Magnum) and some with interchangeable cylinders to allow them to shoot both. Based on the velocity charts on their website that compare the two rounds from the guns they make, it is obvious that even from really short barrels (1 5/8 inch, for instance, in the case of some of their guns) the WMR round still has a measurable velocity advantage over .22LR, generally speaking - sometimes to the tune of two or three hundred feet per second. The NAA velocity chart for a 1 5/8 inch .22LR: http://northamericanarms.com/ball_lr58 The NAA velocity chart for a 1 5/8 inch .22WMR: http://northamerican....com/ball_mag58 The WMR (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) round was developed mostly as a rifle round and apparently it really 'comes into its own' over the .22LR in rifle length barrels. Some folks say that you don't really gain much when firing a WMR from a handgun. I disagree and various info I have seen indicates that a .22WMR fired from a revolver with at least a 6 inch barrel roughly equals the velocity/energy of a .22LR fired from a rifle. To me, that is pretty significant - although the advantage is somewhat lessened (albeit still present, as shown by the NAA charts) when firing from really short barrels. Further, the construction of the bullets/rounds is different. Most (all?) .22LR rounds use either a bare lead bullet or a lead bullet that has a copper (or other material) wash or plating - not a true jacket and, to my understanding, intended mostly to help cut down on lead fouling in the barrel with higher velocity rounds. Also, .22LR rounds use a bullet that is smaller in diameter at the bottom than the main body of the bullet. These bullets are called 'heeled' bullets. This 'heel' fits into the case of the .22LR round and the case is pretty much the same diameter as the main body of the bullet. A .22WMR, on the other hand, uses a bullet that is the same diameter at the bottom as the rest of the body of the bullet. The WMR bullet fits into a case that is of slightly greater diameter than the bullet and, in that way, is more similar in construction to centerfire rounds than to its 'baby' brother, the .22LR. As I previously alluded, another difference is that, with some exceptions, most .22WMR bullets use a true, jacketed bullet rather than a simple wash or plating. In this way, again, these bullets are more similar to centerfire FMJ or JHP than they are to .22LR. One of the exceptions is Winchester Dynapoint WMR which is kind of an odd hybrid as it is loaded in a .22WMR case but made to closely mimic the properties of the old .22WRF (Winchester Rim Fire) load. As such, the Dynapoint is loaded to lower velocities than many other WMR loads but it still uses a non-heeled bullet (as do true WRF loads.) There are also now a couple of WMR rounds that are said to be more 'optimized' for handguns. Specifically, I am aware of Hornady Critical Defense WMR and Speer Gold Dot WMR. Of course, these are more expensive than some other WMR ammo. I tested both of them from my own 1 5/8 inch barreled mini revolver and was disappointed with the Critical Defense and not entirely overwhelmed with the Gold Dot. In my completely unscientific water jug tests, the Critical Defense penetrated three jugs, made a hole in the back of the third and was found in the third. The Gold Dot penetrated three jugs and was found partially protruding from the back of the third jug, stuck in the plastic of the jug. The big difference, however, was that the Critical Defense barely expanded while the Gold Dot round came out perfectly expanded, looking just like the pic on the front of the box. That said, even the super cheap Winchester Dynapoint - which is loaded to slightly lower velocities and uses a copper washed bullet - penetrated five jugs, made a hole in the face of the sixth and 'rebounded' to be recovered from the fifth. Obviously much better penetration albeit with no real expansion.

And?That still doesn't take the fun out of it.

I wouldn't sweat it. If you have to fire in self defense you'll be so tuned up that you're not going to consider much other than eliminating the threat. Besides, bums aren't going to take it to the next level when they know there is an unlimited amount of suckers willing to donate money to their habit. If you did have to pull your pistol on one you're gonna see nothing but the dust of them heading in the other direction. I've spent a bit of time in Bum Meccas such as Seattle, Portland and DC. This has given me experience from having several hundred bum encounters. I've learned that being very aggressive in tone, language and body posture will end encounters ricky-tick. They know that they aren't getting anything from me no matter what they say and they get the impression that if they continue I'm likely to bounce their head off the pavement.

But they're comics. Or is the preferred term "graphic-novel"?

You can rest assured that ruger will copy anything if it looks profitable.

Mini-14 vs AR-15 not as I own both and both fill a niche. Being one of the older generation I do love my weapons of steel and wood. However, I am a realist and like my Matel weapons too. Realistically, I keep both for different purposes. The Mini is my truck gun and it was designed to be a 2 to 3 moa weapon from the beginning, very similiar to the M-1 Garand and the M-14. The AR platform can be built to a degree of accuracy that the old war horses could only be hopeful of attaining with several modifications and lots of TLC. To bash one and praise the other reminds me of the 1911 vs the plastic pistol vs the revolver. Enjoy each for what they are and become proficient in the manual of arms for the weapon of your choice. I often comment to everyone who asks me to help them to decide on a new weapon; pick the one that looks and feels right. Then practice, practice, practice. Have fun

Something that no one has mentioned is something I would consider a priority in any survival situation when you are trying to stay low. A silencer. And get one for as many calibers as you can but if you only have one make it a 22. The reason is subsonic 22 ammo is readily available and lightweight to carry. And 22 will kill any game we have in our area with the right shot. And with a silencer it is possible to get multiple shots before what you are shooting at realizes what just happened and by that time it is too late. If you are hunting, even with a 22, the shot will alarm and bring in curious people. And those curious people are going to be problems. And realistically I could fend off intruders from quite a distance with a 22 and my silencer. I routinely practice 200 yard shots and at 200 yards anyone would be hard pressed to hear the shot or figure out where the shot came from. In my 22 AR it is literally the hammer hitting and the bolt cycling that you hear over the shot. In a bolt gun all you hear is the impact on target even if the target is dirt it is still louder at 100 yards than the shot. A few more things I would consider mandatory is a decent pellet rifle to take game quietly with and a slingshot for the same reason. You can also shoot arrows quite well with a slingshot making it effective for deer or larger animals when shooting isn't ideal. Dolomite

They're worried about disaster response. Have been since Katrina. I wanna read the order before I jump in the panic circle.

This is why I will always inform them. I have lots of respect for that job, and most of the individuals that do it. Why give them one moment of anguish when they're doing something that I support? And yeah, a few of them are boneheads, just like anything else.

Lead?!!? Oh no that crap ain't worth nuthin'. I can get rid of any you have laying around so it won't be in your way.

Metals that I think might be a commodity are copper, lead, iron, and silver.

I'd disclose right up front, let the officer see your driver's license and your HCP. Don't you want the officer to put you in the "good guy/not a threat to my life" column? If you've noticed, in Tennessee your driver's license and your HCP have the same number. When the officer calls in your driver's license number to dispatch, it's going to pop up that you also have an HCP. Your HCP is not linked to your vehicle's license plate number, so officers don't know about the HCP at the stop, just after they run your driver's license. If you didn't disclose your HCP right up front when he comes to the car window for his little chat, the officer's gonna know anyways after he runs your driver's license, and then he'll be forced to wonder why you didn't mention your HCP any earlier. That alone is enough to get his prickle up and make his eyes squint while looking at you. Just what you need when an officer's at the side of the road trying to decide if you'll learn anything from a warning versus a ticket. What are you thinking? A lot of cops get shot on traffic stops, so it's nothing personal just business when and if they temporarily disarm you. The officers all want to go home without additional holes in their bodies. For gosh sakes, if you're one of the good guys, act like one. An officer gets to see enough dirt-bags and bastards on a given day, why be another one? Set the officer's mind at ease and let him know right up front about your HCP and if you've got a pistol on your belt. If he's gotta pry the information out of you, it's just going to make him suspicious of your motives, especially if you're spouting attitude.

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." — Claire Wolfe "101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution" (1996) The awkward stage is just about over.

Pctures would help a lot. Sounds like you have one hell of a rifle......

What are you going to marinade it in?

I don't invest heavily in PM's. But I do put a small percentage of my prepping funds into what's commonly called junk silver. But this is only a small portion of my prepping focus...food, tools, water purification, gardening and storage (canning & dehydration) come first...but if there's a dip, I'll buy some more silver. Gold may be an avenue to protect wealth, but it's not, imho, a realistic precious metal for me and my needs. In a serious economic collapse, making change could be next to impossible. For large purchases, or transporting wealth if bugging out (more fantasy than reality I think), it could have merit. Copper coins and copper rounds are intriguing though. Provident Metals have some nice looking copper coins for example. I believe it is currently illegal to melt (destroy) Government minted coinage. But like was mentioned, copper most definitely has many uses... Pre-1982 copper pennies are most definitely worth saving. According to Coinflation the pre-1982 pennies are currently worth 2.54 cents. That makes 'em worth sorting out to me.

Ron Paul won't win the nomination and he won't be president...it's just that simple. If he runs as an independent he'll prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that he doesn't give a flying f**k about this country because an independent run will ensure a second term for Obama, continued $1Trillion + deficits and two or three left-wing loons on the supreme court. If RonPaulRobots are so wrapped up in their devotion to Ron Paul that they can not or will not see what a second term for Obama will do then they deserve the country they'll be left with by the end of 2016.

Why? If he cares about the country enough to jump into that mess, why wouldn't he do what he could to steer it in a direction he believes in? It why he's in Congress.

If you do your research( which i doubt majority will do) you will see that RP ( Ron Paul) has won more straw polls than any other candidate. He hasn't won any state but i'm sure if they recounted the state of Maine, Romney would not have been the winner. But that's one state. Those that think he never had a chance aren't seeing the real message here, Even if he's not elected to the nomination, there is a chance he will run Independent, That's where the republican candicy will lose to obama. Ron's message about liberty is getting out, too bad the media seems to not want to mention him( maybe they are funded by those "in charge"). No matter who you vote for, "those in charge" are the ones who will decide who is the next president. It has always been like that, maybe not as far back as the founding fathers. True though, the republicans and Democrats are 2 sides of the same coin, one side will come up with something, touting it as their great achievement, yet maybe the last time it was introduced, the other party had come up with a version of it and was blocked by the other party, cause it wasn't their idea. Thing is, we all have to start spreading the word, you might not like everything he is for, but it's a lot better having ron in office than the POS we have now. Or any of the other candidates, though Mitt, is a closer second than the rest of those fake conservatives. But if those out there who are potential voters would see that Ron is the only candidate that has not taken money or support from any of the big banks that took the Bail-outs. The other 4 main candidates including obama, have.

I think that some form of gun confiscation may very well happen. Look at how the Health Care Bill was passed. Majority of the people did not want it passed but it was and the US Senate did what it took to get it passed. Every election from here on out is important for Second Amendment rights and the preservation of our Republic form of democracy. I believe that at any point in time we are one national election away from sweeping gun control legislation or the first corner stone being laid for gun confiscation. Vote and vote often!

I think he may have had that right technically. Still, I would have probably tried to kick up a stink with his superiors after it was over.

If you believe the Republican Party is any better or different than then the Democratic Party, I got some beach property in Arizona to sell ya. The leadership of both parties are made up of the same corrupt big government control types. One party might take a little longer to get there than the other, but they are both marching this country towards the same place. Looking out at the current state of things, I'd imagine I have a pretty good idea what it felt like in the late 1850s..

To me he is only candidate of worth, the rest don't get me started. During the debates none of them except Ron Paul talks about important issues, the latest not issue being talked about by Santorum is ban on porn, I mean come-on!!! Let's take care of the economy, our out of control expeditures, disappearing middle class, plus soo many other things plagueing our country before going after porn.

Because it's my Responsibility to do so as a Free Man. And I believe in the Defender's Creed: The Defender's Creed John Farnam I accept and understand that human predators exist. Criminal or terrorist, they take advantage of our civilized society to prey upon the weak. They represent evil and must be confronted and defeated. I believe that self-defense is a moral imperative, and that illegitimate force and illegal violence must be met with righteous indignation and superior violence. I will not rely on others for the security of myself, my family and my community. I proudly proclaim that I run with a like-minded pack. I do not amble through life with the mind-numbed herd. I will train with my chosen weapons, maintain them and carry them in a condition of readiness at all times. I will be mentally prepared and physically equipped to effectively respond to an attack or emergency. I will constantly test myself against realistic standards to discover my strengths and weaknesses. I will turn weakness into strength. I will seek to learn new skills and techniques, and then teach what I have learned to other members of the pack. Be it with firearm or blade, empty hand or blunt object, I will hit my enemies hard, fast and true. I will live a quiet and unobtrusive life, but I will develop and retain the capacity for swift and decisive violence. I recognize that I am the modern equivalent of the traditional Minuteman, and that I may be called to service at any time against heavily armed enemies. I will respond effectively. I accept that I am a pariah among some of my countrymen, and a quaint anachronism to others. I will not hold their ignorance against them. I will win, or die trying. I swear this creed before God, my family and my fellow citizens.

I forgot to mention that we keep several of the Starter kits on hand to offer to friends and family if the need arises. From the LDS website: "The kit contains recipes, instructional pamphlets, visual aids for teaching family home storage principles, and cans of wheat, rice, beans, and oats. Food items cannot be shipped to addresses outside the United States." For $31.00 (current price, $29.00 when I purchased them) it's still a bargain.

It was the wifes idea really. She works for a Pharmacy and they stay open late. And our home has been broken into twice. We've been married 25+ years and had often done target shooting and clays on our own acreage but in recent years we've moved away from long guns and more into handguns and self defense drills. I hope I never have to use against an attacker but ready if needed.

1. Carried an M9 Pistol every day for the 22 total months deployed in Iraq and felt naked without a weapon. 2. Lived in a dicey neighborhood in San Antonio with vehicle break-ins and a neighbor's door-kicked-in burglary. 3. I'll be damned before I let the low-lifes get the upper hand in my neck of the woods. 4. Because it pisses off the liberals. 5. Because I can.

Being robbed at gunpoint twice! As a former military veteran I knew I didn't have to put up with that. It's a bad world out there, we just choose to ignore it. I put my butt in gear and did "the right thing" and feel allot better for doing it!

If anyone has a right to complain about how our government has behaved, its the natives. Let them have their traditions in peace.

Let's not overblow the actual impact - one tribe, two eagles, one time permit. I agree the symbolic implications are troubling. - OS

Problem with the .45, in that situation, is that it dumped all it's energy on impact and does nothing to maintain energy through penetration. This is why 9mm is used when penetration through glass, steel, armor, etc. is needed. 9mm maintains it energy better with less deflection and more penetration over a longer path through barriers than .40 or .45. No bullet will hit the target with any more energy than it leaves the gun. In other words, if it doesn't knock you down when you pull the trigger, the bullet energy will not knock the target down.

Been there brother!. Get it fixed and use the guilt she will feel for buying some more guns.

Let's do a small physics thing. It takes as much energy to get the bullet moving as it does to stop it. You feel that when you shoot the gun. Not discounting the difference in calibers. Just saying that if the energy was that significant, you would have two dead guys instead of one.

Springfield Armory EMP 9mm CRKT M16-13Z folding knife Surefire E2D Executive Defender flashlight What am I afraid of? Not a damn thing. . . .

My wife and myself took the class together on Feb 14, 2008. I pushed for the class and she took it with me so she would have a basic knowledge of firearms. I started carrying because i don't like relying on others. In reality, doing so sets yourself up for failure. I took self defense and home defense upon myself at that time. I have total respect for leo's and their job. Unfortunately, they don't follow us on a daily basis. If a need arises they are a phone call away. Unacceptable in a time of need..... in my opinion.

I always carried anyway, decided to make it legal before I got i trouble. This era we live in is scary. I remember as a child we never locked our doors and the keys stayed in the cars all the time. Now nothing is safe.