URGENT - Permit-less Car Carry in the Senate Tomorrow

[wk05]

Is this another "Constitutional Carry" bill?  

 

http://openstates.org/tn/bills/108/SB1983/

[wk05]

SB 1774 is onto the Senate Calendar Committee!  I wonder what the Amendment it is recommended to pass with is.  Haven't been able to find any documents yet.

 

Rec. for pass. w/ am., ref. to S. Cal. Comm. Ayes 6, Nays 0 PNV 3

[waynesan]

The passage of SB 1774 starts at this link at 03:05:00

http://tnga.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=269&clip_id=9239

[wk05]

Just called Sen. Bell's office to thank him for his support of my 2A rights.  They seemed pretty receptive and that it had generally been the case! 

[btq96r]

I'd love it if this bill passed and TN became a "Constitutional  Carry " carry state, but there are downsides.  The state coffers would need to find some way to make up for the lost revenue (that $115 fee adds up when you apply it to everybody that has a permit) and this would cause issues for those of us who travel and would need an issued state HCP to receive reciprocal carry rights across state lines if they stoped issuing permits.

[tnguy]

The fee should just cover the administrative costs anyway. It's idiotic that a law like this be judged not on what's right or wrong but because they might lose a trivial amount in taxes.

[btq96r]

The fee should just cover the administrative costs anyway. It's idiotic that a law like this be judged not on what's right or wrong but because they might lose a trivial amount in taxes.

 

I'd imagine it covers more than the administrative costs.  And it's not a trivial amount of revenue; it's over $23 million spread over a four year span.

 

Take the number of current HCP holders- 460,530 and even excluding the initial application fee of $115, calculate how much the renewal cost is ($50) for all of them and it comes out to $23,026,500, or $5.75 million a year since the permit is good for 4 years.  If anybody has an argument that the HCP program costs the state that much to run, I'm all ears.

Edited April 3, 2014 by btq96r

[tnguy]

Oh, it clearly does. I'm just saying that it *should* only cover costs.

 

I was expecting it to be a lot less revenue but I believe your calculations to be essentially correct.

Edited April 3, 2014 by tnguy

[wk05]

The bill I commented about above should have little to no effect on TN Tax/HCP revenue.  Seeings as its not constitutional carry, just car carry, the people it really helps out are those who haven't reached the ripe age of 21 to get an HCP or simply those that for some reason don't desire to have a HCP ( :stunned: ) but want to car carry!  

[Oh Shoot]

The bill I commented about above should have little to no effect on TN Tax/HCP revenue.  Seeings as its not constitutional carry, just car carry, the people it really helps out are those who haven't reached the ripe age of 21 to get an HCP or simply those that for some reason don't desire to have a HCP ( :stunned: ) but want to car carry!  

 

The main thing is clears up is an incompatibility with existing "castle law".  You are given the same presumption regarding using deadly force in your vehicle as you are in your home, yet you are not legally allowed to carry in your vehicle without buying a privilege to do it. Since the permit is not necessary for home protection, this seems rather a logical step to me.

 

- OS

[wk05]

Yep!  Did a case study about that for a Legal Writing Class I took.  Kind of surprised something hasn't come up sooner.  So, next step is Senate Calendar Committee, then the Senate floor?

[JayC]

Permit fees are only used to fund the HCP make work at TDOS by law...  It won't impact any other departments budget.  Those workers would be let good (a good thing)...  but nothing else would happen.

 

I'd love it if this bill passed and TN became a "Constitutional  Carry " carry state, but there are downsides.  The state coffers would need to find some way to make up for the lost revenue (that $115 fee adds up when you apply it to everybody that has a permit) and this would cause issues for those of us who travel and would need an issued state HCP to receive reciprocal carry rights across state lines if they stoped issuing permits.

 

[wk05]

Update - PASSED the senate floor and has been engrossed into the house!  Looks like this one "might" make it through!  

[Oh Shoot]

Update - PASSED the senate floor and has been engrossed into the house!  Looks like this one "might" make it through!  

 

Which bill are you referring to here, please?

 

- OS

[wk05]

SB 1774 passed and has been engrossed into the corresponding House Bill HB1480 - permit less car carry.

[btq96r]

Permit fees are only used to fund the HCP make work at TDOS by law...  It won't impact any other departments budget.  Those workers would be let good (a good thing)...  but nothing else would happen.

 

You're telling me that TDOS needs $5.75 million a year to process applications and print out HCP's using existing DMV personnel and resources?

 

I think that's the reason this bill dies with a wink and a nod like many here predict.  Gov. Haslam and the GA don't want to have to make ends meet or raise taxes anywhere else to make up for any lost revenue.  It's not like any voters who usually vote Republican are going to switch to Democratic on a gun rights issue, so the Republican Trifecta get's to let this die out when the GA session closes without any real political consequence.

Edited April 11, 2014 by btq96r

[Oh Shoot]

SB 1774 passed and has been engrossed into the corresponding House Bill HB1480 - permit less car carry.

 

Okay, gotcha, got my threads mixed up, sorry.

 

- OS

[wk05]

Okay, gotcha, got my threads mixed up, sorry.

 

- OS

 

Quite understandable!  With about 4-5 threads on "the new OC law" its real easy to get confused!  

[wk05]

It passed! Onto haslams desk!

[Oh Shoot]

It passed! Onto haslams desk!

 

Just posted in another thread, asking how ya know that for sure? Memphis paper only reporting I can find and the bill progress doesn't show it.

 

http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=HB1480&GA=108

 

I'm half wondering if Commercial Appeal didn't screw up?

 

- OS

[wk05]

Passed H., Ayes 79, Nays 10 04/14/2014

I think there's something to it. I'm glad the media didn't latch onto because The Lord knows my side of the story wouldn't be shown.

[JayC]

I'm telling you by law HCP permit fees are supposed to be used at fund the process...  and nothing else..  they've been audited in the past, and it's my understanding are complying with the law at this point in time...  but they use every excuse in the book to link those funds to the permit process ;)

 

We don't need to raise taxes...  we just need to cut government...  we could cut it in half and probably not notice the difference.

 

You're telling me that TDOS needs $5.75 million a year to process applications and print out HCP's using existing DMV personnel and resources?

 

I think that's the reason this bill dies with a wink and a nod like many here predict.  Gov. Haslam and the GA don't want to have to make ends meet or raise taxes anywhere else to make up for any lost revenue.  It's not like any voters who usually vote Republican are going to switch to Democratic on a gun rights issue, so the Republican Trifecta get's to let this die out when the GA session closes without any real political consequence.

 

[Oh Shoot]

Passed H., Ayes 79, Nays 10 04/14/2014

I think there's something to it. I'm glad the media didn't latch onto because The Lord knows my side of the story wouldn't be shown.

 

edit; okay, never mind, I see where Senate and House seem to have voted on it now. I guess it's real deal.

 

That's great. It's only right since Castle law is extended to the vehicle that same rules for firearms should prevail for both.

 

 

- OS

Edited April 15, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[wk05]

I just wanted to say thanks to the TGO community for putting in their efforts calling and emailing in favor of this legislation - it means a lot to myself and pro-2A friends who aren't of legal age to get an HCP yet. That's why I love the gun community in the south.

It should be a downhill battle from here - just getting Haslam to sign it!

On the down side (gotta spend more money!) - I've now got an excuse to start looking for another handgun!

[Oh Shoot]

I just wanted to say thanks to the TGO community for putting in their efforts calling and emailing in favor of this legislation - it means a lot to myself and pro-2A friends who aren't of legal age to get an HCP yet. That's why I love the gun community in the south.

It should be a downhill battle from here - just getting Haslam to sign it!

On the down side (gotta spend more money!) - I've now got an excuse to start looking for another handgun!

 

Good for you! And all the others who it will allow to legally carry in car. Seems to take effect July 1 if I'm reading the correct version.

 

- OS