Going to try something new

[Dolomite_supafly]

So I know it is common practive to load jacketed bullets backwards for subsonic loads. When a bullet starts to become unstable it is because heavy part, at the rear of the bullet, is trying to overtake the lightweight front. I know I have shot a lot of subsonic 69 SMK's in a 9 twist 223. Loaded like normal thèy turn sideways pretty quick but loaded backwards, with the heavy part facing forward, they remain stable a lot longer. I would never consider shooting them with a can when loaded normal but loaded backwards I have shot a lot of them through my 22 can without issue.

 

Loading bullets backwards also makes it easy to tell by sight, or feel, that they are not standard rounds.

 

So knowing this I have decided to try it with a cast bullet, specifically the Lee 230 grain bullet. They are stable in my 10 or 8 twist guns at 100 yards when loaded normally but they also must be loaded to magazine length. Not sure if they will feed in an AR but in a single shot they should work pretty well. The large frontal area should hit "organic" targets pretty hard and with the extra weight it should give decent penetration. And then the next thing I should try is to hollow point it. I think adding a 3/16" or 1/8" hollow point should be even more amazing.

 

I have always been told, as well as read, that the ideal bullet shape is a teardrop with the heavy part facing forward.

So here are pictures of my test loads.

There is plenty of room in the case for 8 grains of Lil'Gun and the front of the bullet. Yes, that is a powder coated Lee 230 grain cast bullet loaded backwards into the case. It chambers fine in my single shot so that is what I will be testing. I will also load some so they are engaging the throat.
 
So what say you?

[peejman]

If you're casting your own, why not modify the casting mold such that more of the bullet's mass is forward, but still be rounded enough to feed properly? 

[Dolomite_supafly]

I might sit down and work up a few drawings then see if I can get a maker to offer them.

[gregintenn]

Poor aerodynamics would be the only downfall I can see with this. Since you are shooting at subsonic speeds, I assume that isn't a big concern. How would a properly sized hollow base wadcutter work in a rifle round? It seems like it would accomplish the same weight forward property you are wanting. Does anyone make a mold for a hollow base round nose? That might feed in a semi.

Edited February 4, 2014 by gregintenn

[Jonnin]

I have done this, and a boat tail shape provides a more aerodynamic shape if you can find a mold for it.  I was using jacketed boat tails, not cast, so I cant help there --- the point of mine was to make a cheap "hollow point".  Mine fed fine, but that will depend a lot on the gun.

 

I need to think about the aerodynamics.  I suspect you can actually exceed the speed of sound a little without the crack on some shapes --- not by much, but a little bit --- due to the shape of the bullet.    You might give it a try, see how fast you can push it before you get a crack...

Edited February 4, 2014 by Jonnin

[Dolomite_supafly]

They did tumble but it was because of gas cutting. And the bullet probably never really got a good spin on it. There was tons of lead and powder coat left in the bore of two of the three guns I tried them in. Normally I have zero powder coating or leading but not when they are loaded backwards.

Another indicator that they were not sealing very well is my AR would not cycle 100% even though it has been 100% in several thousands rounds. As the gas cutting happened it reduced the diameter of the bullet and allowed gasses to slip by.

[Jonnin]

That makes sense in hindsight.    The gas is not slamming the flat backside of the round to expand it into the rifling and seal up like normal.   You may need a custom mold after all, or have to paper-jacket or something.

[RED333]

Make a soup can boolit mold with a small angle point.

Or just a smooth sided boolit as you powder coat.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Maybe it is what Red already said, but what would be wrong with a simple lead cylinder? Kinda like a wadcutter? Weight would just be a matter of adjusting the cylinder length?

There was some site that sold bullet press-molding machinery, cold forming the bullet shape using strong pressure, using sectioned pieces of coiled lead wire as raw material. A sizing die could just make cylindrical bullets with nothing but a source piece of lead "about the right size and weight"?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Maybe it is what Red already said, but what would be wrong with a simple lead cylinder? Kinda like a wadcutter? Weight would just be a matter of adjusting the cylinder length?

There was some site that sold bullet press-molding machinery, cold forming the bullet shape using strong pressure, using sectioned pieces of coiled lead wire as raw material. A sizing die could just make cylindrical bullets with nothing but a source piece of lead "about the right size and weight"?

To setup and swage your first bullet is over $1,000 once you buy all the materials and equipment.

[jaysouth]

I have loaded M-80 pulldowns, that is .30 cal 147 gr. FMJBTs backwards in .30-30.  I only shot one batch of them, over 16 grs. of 2400.  I am going to guess a velocity of about 1600 pfs.  Accuracy was OK.  But these were tightly crimped jacketed bullets.  The BT feature of the bullet offered better ballistic profile than a flat base.  

[Jonnin]

a cylinder would work but the aerodynamics are awful.  I think one could do far better.   Depends on the cartridge and desired range and performance.

 

I dunno about the costs, but I can see how a trial and error approach could get pricy.