Price of lead (And price of bullets?) going to go up?

[Guest TankerHC]

The EPA has run the only lead smelter (Lead used by Federal, Lake City and others) out of the COuntry.

 

The last remaining lead smelter, in Herculaneum MO, is closing down.  This will undoubtedly affect the price of lead, since the lead that is mined in Viburnum MO will now be sent out of the US for smelting.

Missouri’s Lead Belt has been the primary source of lead for the US since 1700.  A lead smelter has been in operation in Herculaneum since 1892.  This is why Lake City, Federal, and other ammunition companies have been located in the region.  The recent articles on shot towers don’t really apply to the ammunition industry that existed on the bluffs of the Mississippi river, since no tower was needed.  The top of the ‘shot tower’ was simply an overhang by the river.

The EPA’s new clean air rules would require a $100 million dollar investment in new equipment.  As such, the Doe Run Company has decided to close the site.

 

 

 

Almost all lead now coming from China, Australia and Peru.

 

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/10/20/remaining-lead-smelter-usa-closing/

 

[ShamGlock]

I read this yesterday as well. Aside from the cost of ammo going up, I couldn't help but wonder if one day this will bite our military by putting us at a disadvantage in production capabilities. 

[Dolomite_supafly]

Not to mention the cost of everything else made using lead. The electronics industry is probably the biggest user of lead. Or the battery industry. Another instance where our country will have to rely on another.

 

I contacted Doe Run last year about buying lead. Their prices were better than anyone else and they guaranteed the alloy.

[Jamie Jackson]

Not to mention the cost of everything else made using lead. The electronics industry is probably the biggest user of lead. Or the battery industry. Another instance where our country will have to rely on another.

 

[b]I contacted Doe Run last year about buying lead. Their prices were better than anyone else and they guaranteed the alloy.[/b]

 

 

Is purchasing lead from them still an available option Gordon? Or have they already shut down folks?

 

You know, Ross Perot warned us of this type of thing many years ago. NAFTA, CAFTA, and GAT...but I didn't see this particular route of loosing our manufacturing base in the U.S.A.

We're in trouble folks.(understatement intentional). :2cents:

[itw69fxst]

We thought the ammo shortages this past year was bad. What happens when its all made offshore and "someone" stops exporting. Oh crap, here we go again.

[Caster]

I make no claims to be a prophet but I've been saying this for the last decade.
....all the while ferreting away my lead stores.

[dlm37015]

We thought the ammo shortages this past year was bad. What happens when its all made offshore and "someone" stops exporting. Oh crap, here we go again.its already happening

[Peace]

     I respect you all and love this community, so I'll offer my 2c - none of this is directed at any one person, but it is a reflection of answering my own personal initial reactions (which seem to match most of us here).

   

     This story makes me sad in some ways; however, this is old news.  The decision to close the plant was made long ago, and the decision not to re-build was announced in June, and.... and... while enevitably not good for ammo-land, juicing up scare-talk instead of searching for solutions is just going to make ammo more scarce.  Anyone want to look up the situation of our lead stores surplus?  We need to be funding solutions (politcal?), ... and running to walmart to buy up overpriced federal 62gr is not a solution, it is a reaction.   If we all stay scared and jittery about our ammo all the time.. we'll seem like the crazies some folks want to see.

 

2014 is coming, and we had better be talking about the economy, the economy, the economy (things to which even non-gun-owners can relate!)(the fed's should have subsidized the plant to meet the requirements - for economic and national security interests).  Bill Clinton's montra just might be the savior of conservative politics in the USA.

 

It is bad for a nation to be without a primary lead smelter "in-country", and this stinks for those that are loosing their jobs, but this is good for the health of the families in and around that town, period.  

     Anytime we mention this to left-leaners, middle-minded, or even far-out-ocrats, we had better have our facts straight about lead-poisoning, and lead-exposure to children - and be willing to acknowledge the full spectrum of effects of decisions like these.  Failling to care about - or even denying that this plant had serious health consequences for the families in that town makes us look like:

1) morons

2) morons who don't give a crap about children, and

3) morons who are self-obsessed over our own (seemingly narrow) concerns.  

 

People do not look to #s 1, 2, & 3 for leadership or influence.

[Guest TankerHC]

I could agree with you. Peace, if this were a perfect world. But it isn't. Not by a long shot. The fact remains that a lot of manufacturers got their lead from that facility. Because of EPA regulations it is cost prohibitive to stay in business. One of the things the EPA has been after for years and has been repeatedly shot down is a ban on lead bullets. That production of lead no longer exists in this country. Here's a prediction. The cost of buying lead that has been shipped overseas for smelting and returned will make bullets more costly to manufacture in the US. As a result production of ammo will be moved probably to China for most of the big manufacturers. Companies like DRT are not going to be able to compete. As far as the economy it should by now be perfectly clear, especially with Obama being reelected while the economy was on a downward spiral, the economy doesn't matter to those who vote. Forget the economy. The focus needs to be on "Why" we were the Country we once were. The complete message needs to be brought to the American people. I only know of two men capable of doing it and Cruz isn't one of them. Cruz, even if he were eligible constitutionally, is now damaged goods thanks to our very own Republican Party, and doesn't stand a chance against Hillary Clinton. If Cruz gets the nomination in 2016 and focuses on the economy, we're done. If a big turnover doesn't happen November 14, and if the focus is on the economy it won't happen, then we won't need to be concerned about who will be the next President. That will be a forgone conclusion.

Everyone needs to get their non voting friends and family to the polls in 14 and 16. It is the ONLY way we are going to take back the country short of the other alternative. And that other alternative would not be pretty, for anyone.


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[Superman]

As a result production of ammo will be moved probably to China for most of the big manufacturers.

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I dont think guns or ammo can be imported from china. I may be wrong but I think it was banned in the early 90s

[Guest TankerHC]

I dont think guns or ammo can be imported from china. I may be wrong but I think it was banned in the early 90s

 

It only requires the stroke of a single pen.

[seez52]

If anyone is interested, government liquidation often has bulk lead for bid. It's usually located at one of the ship yards. I have not followed any of the bid lots as they are usually pretty large.

[Schadenfreude]

Speaking from the electronics industry lead is pretty much only used in circuit boards for the military any more look up ROHS & yeah the lead free stuff is not as reliable

[bajabuc]

check out E bay for cheap sailboats.  most...but not all have lead keels  There was one on recently that had 1800 pounds of lead and sold...the whole boat...for under five hundred dollars.

[MacGyver]

check out E bay for cheap sailboats.  most...but not all have lead keels  There was one on recently that had 1800 pounds of lead and sold...the whole boat...for under five hundred dollars.

For that matter, pick up a copy of Wooden Boat magazine at your local bookstore.  There's a whole section in the back of "free boats".  Some are projects.  Some are salvage that people are looking to get rid of. 

[Superman]

It only requires the stroke of a single pen.

Right, but I doubt it would ever get reversed.

[bersaguy]

Well to add insult to injury has anyone given thought to how much lead is use in all of the MRI hospital equipment and how often it needs to be replaced and how will that also drive up the cost of the use of MRI tests in hospitals. Also all of the big push to create more fuel efficient automobiles which have become battery powered which demands a lead base in most of them will become to expensive for anyone to purchase as if they are not close to that already.  There are many many uses for lead far beyond Ammunition................jmho  

[Dolomite_supafly]

Is purchasing lead from them still an available option Gordon? Or have they already shut down folks?

 

You know, Ross Perot warned us of this type of thing many years ago. NAFTA, CAFTA, and GAT...but I didn't see this particular route of loosing our manufacturing base in the U.S.A.

We're in trouble folks.(understatement intentional). :2cents:

No clue. last year when I contacted them they were selling it for $1 a pound in any alloy I wanted. Problem was it had to be a 2,000 pound order and I had to cover shipping. At the time I was getting lead pretty regularly so I never gave it a second thought. They were also the largest lead acid battery recycler in the US.

[Jamie Jackson]

Thank you Gordon. That's kinda what I figured. Man...shipping would be a bugger!

 

I looked at their website, but wasn't able to glean much from it.

 

 

Competition for lead wheel-weights in my area of Knoxville is pretty tough, and I imagine it'll only get worse for all of us as time goes by.

 

I need to just keep gathering where I can and certainly plan to add more Falcon bullets to my supply... 

[bersaguy]

Competition for wheel weights is tough anywhere you go these days but many of the wheel weights used today are made from an alloy and not lead which makes it even harder to find even babbit lead........jmho

[DaveTN]

     I respect you all and love this community, so I'll offer my 2c - none of this is directed at any one person, but it is a reflection of answering my own personal initial reactions (which seem to match most of us here).

   

     This story makes me sad in some ways; however, this is old news.  The decision to close the plant was made long ago, and the decision not to re-build was announced in June, and.... and... while enevitably not good for ammo-land, juicing up scare-talk instead of searching for solutions is just going to make ammo more scarce.  Anyone want to look up the situation of our lead stores surplus?  We need to be funding solutions (politcal?), ... and running to walmart to buy up overpriced federal 62gr is not a solution, it is a reaction.   If we all stay scared and jittery about our ammo all the time.. we'll seem like the crazies some folks want to see.

 

2014 is coming, and we had better be talking about the economy, the economy, the economy (things to which even non-gun-owners can relate!)(the fed's should have subsidized the plant to meet the requirements - for economic and national security interests).  Bill Clinton's montra just might be the savior of conservative politics in the USA.

 

It is bad for a nation to be without a primary lead smelter "in-country", and this stinks for those that are loosing their jobs, but this is good for the health of the families in and around that town, period.  

     Anytime we mention this to left-leaners, middle-minded, or even far-out-ocrats, we had better have our facts straight about lead-poisoning, and lead-exposure to children - and be willing to acknowledge the full spectrum of effects of decisions like these.  Failling to care about - or even denying that this plant had serious health consequences for the families in that town makes us look like:

1) morons

2) morons who don't give a crap about children, and

3) morons who are self-obsessed over our own (seemingly narrow) concerns.  

 

People do not look to #s 1, 2, & 3 for leadership or influence.

I agree 100% and have been saying this for a long time. The EPA and OSHA put a lot of companies out of business because the work went to countries that either don’t protect their workers or the government eats those costs.

 

But the health hazards are very real; we can’t just turn our backs. The taxpayer is going to pay for it in one way or another. Either in social welfare programs or with the hit on the economy with lost jobs, or with the government taking the hit on the costs of compliance. I vote for the latter.

 

I have been involved in manufacturing all my life; I try my best to buy American made when I can. Guns, Cars, Motorcycles, Liquor (the important things in life), I can still get made here (although my last car was assembled in Canada).

 

Pick up the tab for these American companies that want to be compliant. You are going to pay for it anyway may as well have the benefit of the jobs.

 

Lead is bad stuff, I cringe when I see these guys jumping into casting their own bullets; but I guess we all have to die from something. But please research this stuff before you do it.

[Jamie Jackson]

Competition for wheel weights is tough anywhere you go these days but many of the wheel weights used today are made from an alloy and not lead which makes it even harder to find even babbit lead........jmho

 

 

Very true. The few places I've located that actually use lead already have them spoken for, and have for a fairly long time.

[thundersnow]

I'd wager we might see bullets move toward the micro brew movement in brewing. No clue about the regulations, but it'd be easy for a local movement to "process " a 2000 pound order if you could rent the brass to shooters in the private club. Time for thinking outside the ammo box.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I agree 100% and have been saying this for a long time. The EPA and OSHA put a lot of companies out of business because the work went to countries that either don’t protect their workers or the government eats those costs.

 

But the health hazards are very real; we can’t just turn our backs. The taxpayer is going to pay for it in one way or another. Either in social welfare programs or with the hit on the economy with lost jobs, or with the government taking the hit on the costs of compliance. I vote for the latter.

 

I have been involved in manufacturing all my life; I try my best to buy American made when I can. Guns, Cars, Motorcycles, Liquor (the important things in life), I can still get made here (although my last car was assembled in Canada).

 

Pick up the tab for these American companies that want to be compliant. You are going to pay for it anyway may as well have the benefit of the jobs.

 

Lead is bad stuff, I cringe when I see these guys jumping into casting their own bullets; but I guess we all have to die from something. But please research this stuff before you do it.

 

You must protect yourself but it can be done safely. I was naive at first but now I am not. I use a mask 100% of the time now as well as other protective gear. I have fans running to draw any fumes away from my body and I make sure to shower afterwards. Even after touching ANYTHING that the lead might have contacted I wash.

 

Those that tumble their brass inside are being exposed to more lead than most people who cast. I have spoke to a bunch of people since my poisoning and they all said that tumbling in dry media releases a lot of lead into the air. I have quit tumbling now and wash the brass. I powder coat bullets now to reduce the amount of lead I am exposed to when shooting too.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Dolomite_supafly

[bersaguy]

Gosh and to think had I known back when I was 10 how much danger was in lead I would have never closed my split shot sinkers with my teeth. Did it almost all my life as a kid growing up fishing. I guess I was extremely lucky as I never had any sickness by doing it and I guess if I was going to have any effects I would have them by now since I am 65 years old........... :ugh: :ugh: