What does the military feel about the erosion of our 2A right?

[garethsk]

I haven't really seen much in the way of articles about this. Have any of you read anything, or even talked to friends/relatives serving in the military?

I remember seeing something about military members not mentioning PTSD out of fear it would result in denials during background checks, but other than that I can't think of anything else I've seen.

I would think that many military members are gun enthusiasts. Hopefully they have a way of letting their feelings be known to lawmakers.

G

[Guest 6.8 AR]

There are a bunch of active and retired, and they do.

[1gewehr]

There are several very active pro-gun organizations started by veterans.  Oathkeepers is about as pro-gun as you can get.  Veterans probably have a higher level of support for firearms rights than the general populace.  But, they are just folks like everyone else and many have opinions opposed to ours.

[Defender]

You would probably also be surprised at how many military members are NOT gun enthusisasts...I worked with guys who carried guns daily who didnt even OWN a gun...

[garethsk]

Oathkeepers is about as pro-gun as you can get.

 

Cool. I wasn't sure if there were any military associations helping to fight some of these crazy changes we're facing. Have these guys issued public statements about any of the craziness going on? I was also thinking more about active military personnel who are overseas. It's got to suck when you're in some place like Afghanistan fighting for somebody else's "freedoms" and watching a fight unfold for your own back home.

 

 

You would probably also be surprised at how many military members are NOT gun enthusisasts...I worked with guys who carried guns daily who didnt even OWN a gun...

 

I guess I figured if people were undecided about guns before joining the military (or even a LE agency) that they would get hooked after going through their training. It didn't take me long to get hooked after firing my first gun.

[c.a.willard]

Unfortunately the military knows how to take the fun out of almost anything and that includes shooting.  Most Soldiers really do not get a lot of trigger time and when they do its usually hurry up and qualify.  You wouldnt enjoy it as much either if you went to range at 4 or 5 in the morning came home late at night just to shoot 58 rounds

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I don't know nothin about military attitudes, percentages. There is one fella I've conversed with online for years, on another forum. I'm pretty certain he doesn't misrepresent himself. He's a republican not a "conservative" or "libertarian". But he's not so far gone that he is a RINO. I agree with him on many issues though I'm mostly "libertarian".

 

He flew copters for years in several usa military adventures including afghanistan. Taught copter piloting and is currently retired working in the military-industrial complex having to do with copters.

 

The guy thinks that civilians ought to be able to buy revolvers, pistolas, and hunting guns. But he is "un-convinceably" of the firm opinion that bubba don't need no high-cap mags (pistols or rifles) and bubba definitely don't need no machine guns. If bubba wants to run a machine gun he should join the military. Only military should have the high-cap mags and big calibers.

 

He recognizes that bubba might need a heater to hunt or self-defense, but bubba don't need no powerful weapons. The powerful weapons should be left to the perfessionals. He does quite a bit of wilderness backpacking, and he doesn't even carry a gun backpacking, thinks its unnecessary, though he's had plenty of experience shooting heavy weaponry in the military.

 

So I don't know how many patriotic, basically conservative ballsy guys like that are around, but MAYBE quite a few of the military think the heavy weapons should be left in the hands of the perfessionals. Stay away from that wheelbarrow, son, you don't know nothin about machinery. :)

[Mister L]

I hope the military will stand up for the US civilians when things start comeing down. The UN is in our country, check out this video. SCARY!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yrhYk2mbfsk

 

and this article

 

http://www.experienceproject.com/question-answer/Did-Obama-Asks-Military-Leaders-If-They-Will-%E2%80%9CFire-On-US-Citizens%E2%80%9D/1593392

[TMF]

[quote name="c.a.willard" post="893820" timestamp="1358963664"]Unfortunately the military knows how to take the fun out of almost anything and that includes shooting.  Most Soldiers really do not get a lot of trigger time and when they do its usually hurry up and qualify.  You wouldnt enjoy it as much either if you went to range at 4 or 5 in the morning came home late at night just to shoot 58 rounds[/quote] You just need to reclass to an MOS that gets a lot of trigger time.

[Caster]

Unfortunately the military knows how to take the fun out of almost anything and that includes shooting.  Most Soldiers really do not get a lot of trigger time and when they do its usually hurry up and qualify.  You wouldnt enjoy it as much either if you went to range at 4 or 5 in the morning came home late at night just to shoot 58 rounds

 

 

I never served so I don't know squat about it but this doesn't jive with some of the Marines I have for customers.  According to them, they shoot......a LOT.  

 

I had a customer [who has since moved away] that had several tattoos.  I noticed one that looked similar to this:

 

 

 

I never asked him specifically what he did.  I got the impression he was not inclined to talk about things too much and I didn't want to pry.  From what he DID actually volunteer, he's fired more rounds than you could haul in a dump truck.  Nicest guy I've ever met.  I got a funny feeling he was not a person I'd wanna poke with a stick though.  

Edited January 23, 2013 by Caster

[Owen3544]

I am still active duty Army for 68 more day, but who's counting, and you wouldn't believe how many of these guys couldn't care less about what's happening to the 2nd amendment. I am from Tennesse so I grew up around guns and hunting, and what not. Most of these guys are from big cities, so the only experience with guns they have is what the Army has given them, and they are just fine with not having them as civilians when they get out.

[Guest cardcutter]

" I got a funny feeling he was not a person I'd wanna poke with a stick though. "

 

Have you ever met a Marine that was?

Semper Fi!

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I hope the military will stand up for the US civilians when things start comeing down. The UN is in our country, check out this video. SCARY!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yrhYk2mbfsk

 

and this article

 

http://www.experienceproject.com/question-answer/Did-Obama-Asks-Military-Leaders-If-They-Will-%E2%80%9CFire-On-US-Citizens%E2%80%9D/1593392

Whoever the heck "saintbirgitta" is send them their video back and ask for a better one. That one is a joke. Out of focus docs and

whatever else is just silly. I'll even go as far as looking for Reynolds Wrap after that one, and I look at most anything. I've run military trains before. That's not evidence of anything. I can't speak of their content and I wouldn't, but putting a picture of

a train loaded down with military hardware doesn't mean anything more than deploying or coming home, to me.

Edited January 23, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[leroy]

To make you all feel a bit better about some of this stuff; ill offer the examples of several of my 23 year old's buddies.  Three are USMA graduates and are currently serving.  Two are in college ROTC, and soon will be serving.  They see things the same way as we do.  These young men are the guys that will have to say "no" if anything bad happens like the officer corps did just before the civil war when sides were taken.   The 23 year old also has several active duty and former enlisted buddies who are serving or have returned from overseas tours in combat zones around the world.  I know these young men personally.  No one will take their guns, inter them in a FEMA camp; nor any of their friends or family.  I would (...and am...) betting my freedom on them sayin "no".  I simply do not believe that any of them would take an unconstitutional order, nor stand by wringing their hands while someone else carried one out.  I am very proud of all of them.  They are the future.

 

leroy

[c.a.willard]

You just need to reclass to an MOS that gets a lot of trigger time.

 

 

I just got out of the active side, and for the most part my MP unit got as much trigger time as any non SF MOS.  I was lucky to be able to get alot more than most because i would help run different courses of fire or go to different schools where i could shoot more.  The majority of the U.S. Military is made up of combat suport and combat service support jobs, not combat arms jobs.  The combat arms guys do get more trigger time.  And some branches are better about marksmanship training than others.  By far the best at teacing marksmanship is the US Marine Corp, and they understand that to get better shooters you have to let people shoot frequently.  But that doesnt apply to the military as a whole. 

[E4 No More]

You would probably also be surprised at how many military members are NOT gun enthusisasts...I worked with guys who carried guns daily who didnt even OWN a gun...

Kind of a difficult thing to do if you live on base. I didn't own a gun when I lived on base because I didn't want to have to get my CO's written permission to go shoot, and have to turn it in to the armory when I got back.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

To make you all feel a bit better about some of this stuff; ill offer the examples of several of my 23 year old's buddies.  Three are USMA graduates and are currently serving.  Two are in college ROTC, and soon will be serving.  They see things the same way as we do.  These young men are the guys that will have to say "no" if anything bad happens like the officer corps did just before the civil war when sides were taken.   The 23 year old also has several active duty and former enlisted buddies who are serving or have returned from overseas tours in combat zones around the world.  I know these young men personally.  No one will take their guns, inter them in a FEMA camp; nor any of their friends or family.  I would (...and am...) betting my freedom on them sayin "no".  I simply do not believe that any of them would take an unconstitutional order, nor stand by wringing their hands while someone else carried one out.  I am very proud of all of them.  They are the future.

 

leroy

That's always good to hear, Leroy. You have someone to be very proud of. I'm proud to know it.

[mcurrier]

He recognizes that bubba might need a heater to hunt or self-defense, but bubba don't need no powerful weapons. The powerful weapons should be left to the perfessionals.

 

Only problem with that is that "professionals" get paid, work for the highest paying employer and can be bought.  Hessians were professionals.  Thank God that our patriot ancestors didn't have to go up against them with pitchforks and rakes.  They had a comparative rifle to defend themselves with.

 

Seems like 0bama may be hand selecting those who will do his dirty work -

 

Obama Tailoring Military Leadership to Only Those Who Will Shoot Fellow Americans

Read more: http://godfatherpolitics.com/9112/obama-tailoring-military-leadership-to-only-those-who-will-shoot-fellow-americans/#ixzz2Iq9HOioW

 

"Ever since taking office 4 years ago, Obama has been carefully tailoring the military to his specifications.  Once he started making his sweeping changes, many career military personnel including commanding officers began retiring or resigning their commissions, leaving the military to the liberals"

 

"I’ve been writing for a couple years now saying that Obama has plans to purposely destroy America’s economy in order to create a national emergency.  This would give him the reason to declare martial law and assume dictatorial control.  He will disband Congress and establish his own Gestapo style national police.

 

When I wrote these things, I said the only two things that could prevent him from succeeding is the military because I seriously doubted that they would fire on fellow Americans and the 300 million guns in the hands of private citizens.  But it seems that Obama is actively working towards eliminating both of these last remaining obstacles and when they are gone, mark my word, all hell will break lose and America will be lost."

[leroy]

Mc:____________

 

RE:  Your post above.  I saw the same article and i think ya are exactly right.  I firmly believe that this administration is desperately lookin for a situation (....like a natural disaster....) in a vulnerable place to try the FEMA / Martial Law thing out; and they are actively interviewing possible accomplices lots of places, including the top of the military.  More than that; there are otherwise sound-minded people that i know who believe that some of the gubmt "ABC" organizations (...think ATF, FBI, on and on...here; along with a few secret ones...) are actively seeking to create or synthesize a dangerous, chaotic situation for this bunch to try to exploit.  

 

The problem up to now has been that ya couldnt do it ala "Sandy" in NJ or NY because they are a reliable "blue state"; and ya cant afford to offend (...nor interr...) demorat brothers.  The other problem is (...if i remember right...); the federal gubmt cant unilaterally declare martial law.  The governor has to formally ask the fed in.  That presents a problem down in our region (...and in most other parts of the country...), because of the large number of republican governors and state legislatures who would be very hostile to that sort of action.  If i lived in a place like Baltimore, Cleveland, or any of these other "blue states"; i would be real worried if some natural disaster happened. 

 

Never discount the distinct possiblilty that Nobama and his clowns may actually think that they are Abraham Lincoln and his war cabinet.  Ya simply never know.  It is, indeed, a very sobering situation.  I firmly believe that this bunch of clowns has kicked the political can so far down the road with their excesses and pushed enough people around that they have managed to get things about as hot as they were between the individual slave and free states and the federal government as they were right before the civil war. In our current situation, ya just need to insert "red" or "blue" for slave or free.

 

Havin said all that, i dont think there will be any of what i think they dream of because i firmly believe that the Hand of Providence is against them and that they are probably too feminized to do anything.  They only fantacize about it in their "group gropes", "executive retreats", and occasional visits by autocratic sons and daughters of satan like Rahm,  Coumo, Bloomberg, and Chavez (...if he is still alive....).  I say: "...They're all trash; the hell with 'em all". 

 

libertarian isolationist leroy

Edited January 23, 2013 by leroy

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Only problem with that is that "professionals" get paid, work for the highest paying employer and can be bought.  Hessians were professionals.  Thank God that our patriot ancestors didn't have to go up against them with pitchforks and rakes.  They had a comparative rifle to defend themselves with.

 

Seems like 0bama may be hand selecting those who will do his dirty work -

 

Obama Tailoring Military Leadership to Only Those Who Will Shoot Fellow Americans

Read more: http://godfatherpolitics.com/9112/obama-tailoring-military-leadership-to-only-those-who-will-shoot-fellow-americans/#ixzz2Iq9HOioW

 

"Ever since taking office 4 years ago, Obama has been carefully tailoring the military to his specifications.  Once he started making his sweeping changes, many career military personnel including commanding officers began retiring or resigning their commissions, leaving the military to the liberals"

 

"I’ve been writing for a couple years now saying that Obama has plans to purposely destroy America’s economy in order to create a national emergency.  This would give him the reason to declare martial law and assume dictatorial control.  He will disband Congress and establish his own Gestapo style national police.

 

When I wrote these things, I said the only two things that could prevent him from succeeding is the military because I seriously doubted that they would fire on fellow Americans and the 300 million guns in the hands of private citizens.  But it seems that Obama is actively working towards eliminating both of these last remaining obstacles and when they are gone, mark my word, all hell will break lose and America will be lost."

 

Yep, I agree. I don't agree with my online friend, was only reporting his attitude and wondering how many military types hold similar attitudes. The fella is a political ally on all but the guns issue, fiercely patriotic, sharp as a tack. I tried to "change his mind" on the gun issue for several years, the last debate on hi-cap mags after the jared laughner shooting. It is that "need" word again. He is just un-convinceable that civilians "need" hi-cap mags or weapons "more powerful" than necessary for self-protection or hunting. If civilians don't need em they ought not have em. He makes fun of civilians who want such. "What, do you need high cap mags and an AR-15 to defend against an army of rabid squirrels or a platoon of raging bears?" He's a good guy, but not "our friend" on such as assault weapon or hi-cap-mag ban issues. Maybe he's the only career military guy in the world with that attitude, dunno. Years ago I used to go round-and-round the same turf with a patriotic ex-marine california lawyer, but at least the lawyer was a democrat so he had an excuse. :)

[eapking]

It all boils down to what you think the 2A means.  There are plenty of cops, military, hunters, NRA members, etc. who do not embrace the true meaning: the repelling of tyranny from outside or within.  You don't have to look far to find supporting writings and opinions from our Founding Fathers to see their true intent.

Edited January 23, 2013 by eapking

[mcurrier]

Havin said all that, i dont think there will be any of what i think they dream of because i firmly believe that the Hand of Providence is against them and that they are probably too feminized to do anything.  They only fantacize about it in their "group gropes", "executive retreats", and occasional visits by autocratic sons and daughters of satan like Rahm,  Coumo, Bloomberg, and Chavez (...if he is still alive....).  I say: "...They're all trash; the hell with 'em all". 

 

libertarian isolationist leroy

 

I think you are probably correct.  Let's hope so.  It would not be good for it to be otherwise.

[mcurrier]

He's a good guy, but not "our friend" on such as assault weapon or hi-cap-mag ban issues. Maybe he's the only career military guy in the world with that attitude, dunno. 

 

Neville Chamberlain was a good guy.  An idiot, but a good guy. ;)

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Neville Chamberlain was a good guy.  An idiot, but a good guy. ;)

 

I kinda figured it was a bit of "professional elitism". After all, how many physicians heartily endorse do-it-yourself home surgery? :)

[mcurrier]

The 0bama Regime is -

 

 

Destroying The U.S. Military From Within

 

http://cnsnews.com/blog/frank-j-gaffney-jr/destroying-us-military-within